• James Carr

    Why are gays surprised when they are fired from an obviously religious organization? Their presence infers that the Religion speaks one way and acts another. Why all this harassing of religion?

  • Larry

    Why are Christians breaking local laws so obviously by such malicious discrimination?

    Why are they ignoring their own church doctrine to act in such a poor manner?

    It makes for a tough lawsuit to defend against for the daycare center. Even the church sponsoring it doesn’t approve of such behavior.

  • You really think “religion” only has one thing to say about LGBT people and same-sex relationships? I assure you it does not. And of course, Christianity is not the only religion.

    Also, if they’re going to kick out all the “sinners,” they will have a very small hiring pool.

  • Garson Abuita

    As Eliel alluded, the Supreme Court case of Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church & School v. EEOC controls this case and will likely make Aloma the winner in any suit. Teachers in a religiously-oriented daycare likely are going to be giving religious instruction and the courts will find them to be “ministerial” employees.
    Hosanna-Tabor involved the ADA. I’m sure the ELCA is very much in favor of the inclusion in the church and society of persons with disabilities. It didn’t matter then and won’t here either. Unless the UMC is willing or able to override the local church’s decision as a matter of polity (and I don’t think it works that way in the UMC), Aloma can contradict all the national statements it wants.

  • BhamBlues

    These women weren’t engaged in illegal activity. Nor were they doing anything to harm the children in their care. They didn’t deserve to lose their livelihoods. That’s what I’m talking about.

  • Shawnie5

    They were llikely in violation of a lifestyle covenant statement that employees of institutions like this are frequently required to sign. They would have done better to pass up this place and seek employment someplace more consistent with their lives and values

  • Greg

    Any “Christian” day care center turning a blind eye to this would be more apt to catch my attention, as this is in clear violation of their religion. I believe that by calling the two women into the office, and giving them the opportunity to discontinue their life of sin, was appropriate. Christians are certainly sinners, but are constantly attempting to get back on track, and being sorry for their failures. So when these women refused to correct their anti-Christian lifestyle, they lost their livelihoods.

  • Eliel Cruz

    I thought about that too. And was going to ask but no one at the day care center returned my calls. Again, this is a very peculiar case as the county does have protections and until their is a lawsuit filed we won’t know if they can argue that the daycare workers are legally “ministerial aid.” Also, they seem to be going against their church here.

  • Eliel Cruz

    That’s actually not true.. as their denomination is against employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Seems like they’re going against their denomination here. Did you read the piece?

  • Victor Liffet

    If I were the Director, I’d certainly looking to change my name. How embarrasing.

  • Andrew Holubeck

    I agree that there’s little chance a lawsuit in this case would succeed. The Hosanna-Tabor case demonstrates that courts give quite a bit of latitude as to who qualifies as “ministerial” employees. And courts are loath to tell churches that they don’t believe what they say they believe. The UMC has issued statements opposing employment discrimination based on LGBTQ identity, but are member churches required to agree with this to remain part of the UMC? And even if they are, should courts be able to tell a single church that it isn’t allowed to disagree with its denomination?

    As a gay man about to marry a seminary student, I find the actions of this church to be deplorable; they are erecting an unnecessary and nasty barrier between these women and the ministry they feel called to. But I get nervous about legally forcing church ministries to violate their beliefs, no matter how wrong-headed. I also get nervous when courts rule on what a church “really” does or does not…

  • Andrew Holubeck

    Also, in defense of my denomination, I must note that Hosanna-Tabor is a Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod congregation, not ELCA. 🙂

  • Billysees


    “Why are they ignoring their own church doctrine to act in such a poor manner?”

    Great question.

    And so another church stumbles over itself again —
    …the United Methodist church released a supportive statement saying they believe any “termination based solely on sexual orientation would violate a person’s civil rights.”

  • Garson Abuita

    Sorry about my denomination confusion! I should have checked.
    The courts can’t decide a dispute like whether a church has the right to believe what it wants. It can only decide intra-religious disputes if it can be done on neutral principles of law. If the UMC wanted to kick out the local congregation, it could, and that might lead to a justiciable legal dispute, but this couple wouldn’t directly be a part of it.

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  • Michael

    In the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod there are two IRS categories for minister – ordained and commissioned. Ordained ministers are pastors. Commissioned ministers are mainly parochial school teachers, directors of christian education (DCE’s – youth workers), or deaconesses, etc. Most day care workers, aides etc. would not be a commissioned minister (degreed/coloquized by one of our institutions of higher education). So Hosanna-Tabor would have no baring in this case.

  • James R. Johnson

    One day we will all stand before god and answer for what we have done,good and bad.The lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this same action as these gay people are doing today.
    The lord did not make any mistakes,if he had he could not have died for your sins and mine.and he did not make men to marry men and women to marry men,there is a little three letter word for this and that is “SIN”
    I will be praying for you.
    JR Johnson

  • Eliel Cruz

    That’s an incredibly inaccurate statement. Sodom and Gommorah wasn’t destroyed for it. I’ve written a biblical response here.

    And if you look at this NYT piece, so does even non affirming evangelical leaders.

    “They all agreed that, in the Bible, God did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because of sodomy, but because the residents were guilty of arrogance and greed.”