Don’t expect church to change views on gay families, Chaput says

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Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M., Cap. during the Festival of Families announcement at the Pontifical North American College in Rome on June 23, 2015. Photo courtesy of Chris Warde-Jones, Archdiocese of Philadelphia

Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M., Cap. during the Festival of Families announcement at the Pontifical North American College in Rome on June 23, 2015. Photo courtesy of Chris Warde-Jones, Archdiocese of Philadelphia

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VATICAN CITY (RNS) The Philadelphia archbishop said, “People who have experienced same-sex attraction” will be welcome at September event for families but it will not be open to  supporting gay families.

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  • Be Brave

    This is perfectly appropriate. The same position could be echoed down the centuries from the moment Jesus REAFFIRMED that marriage is immutably man and woman.

    Those that desire a life and behavior antithetical to Christian truth are free to live anywhere and anyway they desire.

  • Rev. Polly Toner

    Perhaps “the” Roman Catholic Church will not change. Many branches of “the” Church have widened our doors and our love already. If all Christians are members of the body of Christ, then Rome isn’t “the”church, and all of God’s children are welcome in that body.

  • Joe Murray

    I am not sure how Archbishop Chaput intends to stop LGBT Catholic activists and their straight allies from demonstrating their opposition to the promotion of homophobia in the Church short of having armed guards at every entry, communion and confession line. If that is the type of welcome he wants to promote for homosexuals in the Church let him bring it on, because that reflects that reality in the Church.

    Chaput in particular has been very unreasonable when it comes to dialogue. He like the late Cardinal Francis George of Chicago believed that “error has no rights” this mentality is changing. Either Pope Francis represents his Petrine office to the whole or a segregated Church, the choice at the end of the day is his.

    We will not bow to these pius threats.

    Joe Murray
    Executive Director
    Rainbow Sash Movement (LGBT Roman Catholics)

  • Cranmer

    Yes, there are millions of other Christians worshiping and living the Gospel in plenty of other denominations, such as the United Church of Christ and The Episcopal Church. Not all Christians are hateful — thanks for reminding us of that @Be Brave.

  • Cranmer

    These denominations do accept and affirm GLBTQ people who are committed to faithfully living the Gospel.

  • Be Brave

    The book of Jude details these kinds of people dwelling in The Church. Licensing immorality.

    It is not a positive portrait.

    Thanks for reminding me that The Church has faced this sexual depraved movement before. And of course Nero, that famous LGBT activist, same sex marriages and all . . . was just as hostile to Christians that were not affirming.

    Got it. History remembered. And not forgotten by those of us that won’t sellout the Gospel to party and celebrate sin and sinning with those that take “pride” in it.

  • Ro Na

    Bible says don’t be partners with sin so we are not to endorse any
    kind of sins including gambling,gossips,being mean,premarital sex,
    coveting/jealousy,idolatry, getting drunk in any form includin those
    who get drunk on strong wine are also wrong cause Jesus made a
    diluted new wine for a symbolic reason not to get drunk! Bible also
    says don’t get drunk on strong wine! Romans 1:18-32 and Luke 13
    plus 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 make it clear we all need to Repent!
    Bible saysRepent and believe Gospel to be saved We must Repent!

  • Will

    The Roman Catholic Church started with the Apostles and welcomes all sinners but does approve of sinful behavior such as homosexual relations. Sin is offensive to God.

    What branches of the church do you belong to?

  • Will

    You sound like you are threatening violence.

    When it comes to dialogue, the church is willing to accept repentant and/or reformed homosexuals like any other group of sinners. Will the ‘LGBT Catholic activists’ and their straight allies accept the fact that sex outside of a marriage of a man and a woman is always a sin?

  • Will

    Crammer there is much to Christianity than the Gospels: the Old and New Testaments, tradition, ect.

    Also Christ called marriage a man and a woman without mentioning any other possibilities. So any GLBTQ people who are faithfully living the Gospel need to live a chaste life.

  • Greg1

    Will: the Catholic Church is the only one protected by our Lord from teaching error (Matt 16:18), so you will see other churches drift off into love for “the world” (1 John 2:15-17). But the teachings of the Church cannot change on this one. Love the sinner; condemn the sin.

  • Greg1

    Joe, but it’s a dead end street. The Church must be faithful to the Lord, not man.

  • Will

    The Catholic Church DOES NOT APPROVE OF SINFUL BEHAVIOR SUCH AS HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONS,

    Left out ‘not’

  • Rev Polly Toner

    I’m Presby Church (USA) clergy and have had the privilege of presiding at beautiful same sex weddings of faithful couples who demonstrate God’s love, reconciliation, grace, joy and healing in spite of their persecution. The UCC, Episcopal, Reconciling Methodists, and others are attempting to extend love and acceptance as wide as God’s grace rather than playing gatekeepers of God’s love. In my understanding, Jesus came to show us the radical inclusiveness of God’s love (no Greek or Jew, slave or free, woman or man) and to free us FROM legalistic faith/idolatry of the Law, FOR a grace filled life in community as the Body of Christ. But, the church has treated many of God’s people horrendously over history (dark skinned, children, women, disabled, other faiths, sick). If we only spent that energy loving rather than judging. Seems clear to me that none of us have protection of Apostolic Succession. Humans are human. But, God is still speaking, and the Holy Spirit is still moving…

  • Greg1

    Polly, you can be nice and warmly accepting without accepting their sinful behavior. Once you preside over the rite you are sharing in their sin (Rom 1:26-27, 1Tim 5:22).

  • Will

    “Presby”?? sounds like a fly by night outfit.
    In any event, first Christ came lived, died and rose from the dead for all our sins
    Second Christ asks us to show our love for him but trying not to sin.
    Third, God gave us the Bible to tell us many things including what is sin. There is no positive reference to homosexuality in the Bible and Christ showed great respect for marriage as a man and a woman.
    Fourth you are judging: you have judged Christians based on your own ignorance and prejudice.

  • JR

    Does anyone expect the Catholic Church to alter the Truth for society’s current mood? It has stood firm against any theological error for two thousand years…..this is a piece of cake for them.

  • Contending For The Faith

    Ms. Toner,

    It’s interesting that Jude saw the same kinds of people as are promoting homosexuality “in the Church” in his day as well as ours:

    “Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.”

    “. . . These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves.” – Jude

    He’s talking about people that push their own licentious and lascivious agenda “in the Church.” Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife. Per Jesus.

    Those splinters must irritate your eyes.

  • Contending For The Faith

    Joe,

    Your agenda may not be prayed out of the world and its ways, but as gay activists swoop down to invade and attack faithful Christians, the prayers of the faithful will drive you out of those faithful congregations.

    Christians will not bow to the rainbow idol.

    If you had any semblance of Christian life in you, you would peddle your gay activism in the MCC and see how that works. You have plenty of places that encourage and promote homosexual behavior. You do not need to be an invasive species in faithful gatherings of good Christians to force them back into a lasciviousness they want to avoid.

    But alas:

    “Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things . . .”

    As rainbow flags are going up everywhere to oversee the populace, we are witnessing the rise of the powers of principalities.

  • Billysees

    Cranmer,
    ” Yes, there are millions [and millions and millions] of other Christians worshiping and living the Gospel in plenty of other denominations… ”

    Of course….brackets mine.

    How dumb it is when catholic church propaganda wont see beyond itself and appreciate or even marvel at the amazing work of the Holy Spirit in these ‘plenty of other denominations’.

  • Contending For The Faith -BB

    Actually Jesus our Lord, REAFFIRMED that marriage IS man and woman/husband and wife. Now, the godless/anti-Christ’s can believe what they want to and define sexual couplings in whatever way it is destined to mangle it. But for Christians, if they are forced to “affirm” homosexual marriage, that is persecution on a massive scale.

    Those people calling themselves a Christian (and obviously, of course, their anti-Christian partners), encouraging and promoting homosexual behavior . . . are doing so in opposition to scripture and the clear words of Jesus and the Apostles.

    Look for the powers of darkness to aim a very sharp claw at those Christians that dare oppose the world and its ways taking up authority in The Church.

    There were sellouts in the numbers of the very Apostles. We shouldn’t be surprised to see people that have Christian backgrounds selling out The Church in times such as these. Notice that atheists are aligned with the pro-homosexuality movement?

  • Barry the Baptist

    You sound really self-righteous when you say it like that, Contender. A change in your tone world do wonders.

  • Rev Polly Toner

    Actually, Jesus, per the books in the Cannon, did not address homosexuality at all. He addressed inclusivity and non-judgment a lot. He didn’t say to be the Church only if…or do this in memory only for….
    Same sex relations have existed throughout history and in a variety of species of God’s creation. The abusive relationships between weathy/powerful older men and young boys WERE problematic in biblical times- hmmm- just as they are now…and in the church. God said to love God, and to love one another. Loving, respectful, consenting and life giving relationships meet the Christian standard. What God creates is good and pleasing to God. The beautiful diversity of creation is all around us. Some are born with extra fingers and toes, some with missing organs, some born with mixed genetalia, some with red hair, some are inclined toward and fall in love with people of their sex. I see Christ in those who choose love even in especially in, the midst of hatred. The least of these.

  • Rev Polly Toner

    FYI. The Presbyterian Church, USA has been around since the 16th century, with roots in Scotland. History traces back to John Witherspoon and John Calvin. Several signers of the U.S. Declaration of Independence were Presbyterian. We have work at the United Nations, in DC, as well as worldwide mission agencies addressing social justice and peacemaking. To God’s glory, education is a hugely valued aspect of our tradition. Bible literacy (in Hebrew and Greek) as well as extensive historical and theological studies are a part of the many yr preparation for candidates to formal ministry.
    Perhaps you might be interested to know about many wonderful Christians beyond the Roman Catholics. God’s kingdom is so much larger than any one denomination.

  • Shawnie5

    Who sounds self-righteous — Contender or Jude?

    If it’s Jude, I’m afraid nothing can be done about that.

  • Shawnie5

    “Actually, Jesus, per the books in the Cannon, did not address homosexuality at all.”

    Did He or didn’t He say that sexual immorality (a term which included a number of behaviors including same-sex ones) makes us unclean?

  • Ben in oakland

    After you. When you have achieved moral perfection, perhaps you will have time to comment on us.

  • Devoted to Mary

    While I too am greatly disappointed w/SCOTUS decision, I’m not surprised. I fully expected my Catholic Church to be hated. Hated because it is heaven-minded not worldly-minded just as Christ was & still is today. God granted us free will, so we either do His will or we follow ours. Christ will know his sheep & they will know Him. We’ll find the answer later. In the an time pray the Rosary every day. God Bless you all.

  • Greg1

    Polly, the Catholic Church is not a denomination. It is the Church. Denominations are the ones which broke from it, such as the Presbyterians. And when you pull up anchor from the real thing, you begin to drift very quickly, as is clearly shown in your earlier statement on gay marriages, etc. Only when you come home to the Church, do you return to the Truth.

  • Gary Lockhart

    ‘Many branches(sic) of “the” Church(sic) have widened our doors and our love already.’

    Correction: Many apostate denominations which bear little resemblance to the Church established by Christ have rejected Christ, His bride and truth and fully embraced sin, its eternal consequences.

    Now go back to your masquerade as a “Reverand”, Polly.

  • Gary Lockhart

    “Actually, Jesus, per the books in the Cannon(sic), did not address homosexuality at all.”

    Saint John tells us in Chapters 20 and 21 of his gospel that much of what Christ said and did isn’t recorded in Scripture. However, using your twisted logic and poor knowledge of Scripture, you’re attempting to argue that Jesus condemned adultery and fornication but He wouldn’t condemn homosexual acts? Nonsense.

    “He addressed inclusivity and non-judgment a lot.”

    “And why even of yourselves, do you not judge that which is just?” Luke 12:57

    Words straight from the Incarnate God Himself.

    Before attempting to pass yourself off as an authority on Scripture, Polly, try actually reading the entire 73 book Canon and not the corrupted, abridged and heavily edited version you like to paraphrase.

  • Greg1

    Polly, wow. How far from the Truth you guys have fallen. The Books of the Canon as you like to say, includes the writings of St. Paul, & St. Peter, who are very clear on homosexuality. But regarding the Gospels, Jesus stated very clearly in Mark 10, “at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’a 7‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,b 8and the two will become one flesh.’c So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” I don’t see how it gets any clearer than that. The supreme court might claim to have a higher knowledge, but God is clear from his end.

  • Greg1

    Devoted to Mary, It is interesting that an approved apparition of the Virgin Mary (Our Lady of Good Success), predicted our depraved times very clearly, so we cannot get too upset. This all must happen. Access the below link to see how clearly heaven has spoken about our times (it’s almost frightening):
    http://www.michaeljournal.org/goodsuccess.htm

  • Ms Toner: You said: ” Same sex relations have existed throughout history and in a variety of species of God’s creation…. What God creates is good and pleasing to God.” Indeed that is so.

    But “good” man has long chosen to do evil (aka “The Fall”) and murder too has “existed throughout history and in a variety of species of God’s creation.” Its existence does not make it “good.”

    The “love the sinner, hate the sin” guidance is not semantics. Gays ARE welcome in Churches, but–as had been faced by the late Cardinal George and now Abp Chaput–when gays arrive with banners/sashes promoting their sin, THAT PROMOTION must be left at the door for its disruption of the communion.

  • Jon

    Every Church has their roots from the Catholic Church, including yours. If you disagree then give me back your Bible, since it was from the Catholic Church you received it. And as your Church moves further and further away from biblical truth, they will find the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church ready and willing to take them back, with open arms and full of love.

  • Rev. Polly Toner

    All that Christ-like love! To me, adultery & sexuality r apples and bananas. All people can have loving, self sacrificing, sacred, committed relationships. But, even w/ adultery, Jesus taught non-judgement. Choosing to turn from God and act in sin is unrelated to BEING who God uniquely made you to be. You disagree w/ Protestant Theology and Biblical interpretation. That does not make non-Catholics un-educated or ignorant, or any less loved. Thx for the hateful evangelism tho. Yrs of much prayerful discernment and study led to reform of the Roman Church. None are perfect, but we make an effort to listen to those whose voices were/are long silenced in the Church. Educated, light skinned, men with political and cultural biases (like all the rest of us) were the “teachers” of the Church for so long. Jesus hung with those on the margins, those the religious authorities rejected, those w/o a voice. I aim to follow Jesus as an imperfect but faithful disciple, not idolize a religion. Peace

  • Jon

    It’s cute that Polly’s Church goes back to the 16th century…mine goes back to 33 AD. I have the Pope List to prove it.

  • Rev. Polly Toner

    We can respectfully agree to disagree on sexual orientation as sinful. To me, loving someone who loves you in return is simply not comparable to murder, evil or sin. For me, and for many, it is love.
    I see the Kingdom of God in same sex couples who lovingly parent otherwise unwanted children. I see Christ in the compassion and empathy those who have been abused and rejected have for other broken humans. My own faith has been strengthened by sharing the faith journeys of those who, despite being rejected and scorned by the church over and over, continue to seek their God given place at the Table, God’s irresistable grace, and the fellowship of the Body. I no doubt have my own blind spots, and fully expect and hope that future generations will point out shortcomings of the church we do not yet see- as we now do regarding slavery and women, the mentally ill and disabled. Today, I celebrate the right for all people to love. And, I trust the Good News, that God’s love wins, no matter…

  • Greg1

    Polly, it amazing how you ignore clear principles given to us by our Lord, and broad brush the Love aspect of the Gospel so cover up those stated principles. The Church has a duty to establish a balancing act so to treat ALL commands of our Lord with equal footing. You cannot say Love rules, because Jesus said to Love Your Neighbor, and then violate the clear language of the NT on homosexual persons engaging in the homosexual lifestyle. Your job as a leader in your Church is to call all people to Christ, so that they will receive a merciful Judgment at the end of their lives, and get to heaven. And anything that gets in the way of that, is to be framed by you as an obstacle getting in the way of heaven. We are called to sacrifice the things we like in “this” life (Matt 16:24), so that we can enjoy the “next” life. And the homosexual lifestyle is one of those obstacles (Rom 1:26–27, 1Cor 6:9–10, 1Tim 1:9–10, Jude 1:7).

  • Larry

    Or from the looks of her posts, she is following the one clear principle, coming from Jesus himself, which you have ignored.

    ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
    Mark 12:31

  • Shawnie5

    Oh heck yeah, there is one commandment greater. To love the Lord your God with all heart/soul/strength/mind. You can’t do that while thumbing your nose at His creative design and purpose in creating male and female and His laws as to the right expression of sexuality.

    You also can’t love your neighbor by celebrating and affirming their journey along a path to destruction. Jonah would gladly have done that (out of hate, not love), but God wouldn’t allow him to.

  • Ro Na

    Polly- If we say one sin is okay we have to say all sin is okay and no
    sin is okay! We are to preach Truth! Bible says in 1 Corinthians 6:10
    all drunkards go to hell so do we say it’s okay to get drunk? No we don’t! Read Romans 1:18-32 and 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 because
    Jesus said many will say to Me Lord,Lord and not enter heaven! We
    are to love people in Truth. If someone is in their car and they are
    headed towards a cliff and you see this then don’t warn them that is
    not love and that’s basically what you are doing. Read Luke 13 too!

  • Ro Na

    Polly-You need to read the whole Bible. John 7:24 is a good start cause
    Jesus told people to a change behavior. You’ve created a false god/idol
    to suit yourself which is called idolatry and all idolaters go to hell. Read
    Luke 13 also 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 plus read Romans 1:18-32 as well.

  • Ro Na

    Polly-You also need to read John 7:24 which shows we are to judge
    if their sin is wrong and 1 Corinthians 5 says we are to judge those
    in the church. We are not to stand in the judgment seat of Christ but
    we are to make a/the right judgment. Judging if a sin is right or wrong
    isn’t standing in the judgment seat of Christ so you need to know the
    difference. We a called to preach the whole Truth not to be popular!

  • ben in oakland

    And once again, we have a “good Christian” cheerfully comparing committed relationships and gay people to murderers, while he explains all about how much he loves us.

    as I have noted many times on these pages, the moral compass of a certain class of so called Christian is in serious need of a lodestone.

  • ben in oakland

    Honey, it’s just your fanatasy that anyone GAY hates the Catholic Church, though I would say that a good many fundamentalists seem to. Google “scarlet whore of babylon” a good laugh.

  • ben in oakland

    Karla, how about YOU repent.

  • ben in oakland

    @will

    No, I don’t need to do anything of the sort. YOU need for me to do it.

  • Ro Na

    Jesus also said that you are one of Mine only if you continue in My
    teachings/follow Me so if people say they love Jesus yet they then
    still get drunk,be mean,gossip,gamble,sell sex,have premarital sex,
    covet/are jealous,practice idolatry and the homosexual lifestyle or
    any kind of sin they go to hell. Bible is clear we are not to pracitce
    any kind of sin and we need to/must Repent! We all must Repent!

  • LDSMan

    Romans 1:18-32 —Though most of the passages deal with the male perspective, for the first time there is a specific mention of female homosexuality. And as the verdict comes in, we discover it too is a depraved condition brought on by a sinful nature.

    1Cor 6:9-11—The only passage of scripture that clearly acknowledges former (ex) homosexuals in the church. They are listed along with other ex-sinners who have been changed by the power of Christ. It is certain that Pastor Paul knew there were former homosexuals in his local church and he celebrated their freedom in Christ Jesus. With a completely different tone in comparison to the volume of harsh, negative reaction to the unrepentant homosexuality, scripture here ends with the tremendous hope and goodness of God.

    Galatians 5:19 — Many areas that the apostle traveled to take the gospel indeed were very accepting of homosexual practices, yet he did not back away from communicating the sinfulness of such practice…

  • LDSMan

    AMEN!!

  • LDSMan

    Having homosexuals leading a chaste lifestyle is like asking the leopard to change his spots.

  • LDSMan

    Matthew 19:1-8 — Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.

  • LDSMan

    Amen!!

  • LDSMan

    She is a bleeding heart liberal!!!!

  • Ro Na

    LDSMan-Amen! Bible is so clear that we all must Repent/change. All sin is
    wrong and in 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 it is very,very clear that all sin is wrong!
    Bible is also clear Jesus was not created/is part of the Godhead/Trinity so
    I hope you do research on the mormonism part but as far as what you said
    from the Bible that was right on/was spot on. We’re not to practice any sin.
    Luke 13 says the fruit we are known by is the fruit of Repentance because
    many non-believers do good works so good works do not save us..only by
    us Repenting/trusting in Christ as our Lord will save us. We must Repent!

    Emmanuel means God with us so Jesus was/is God with us as part of the
    Godhead/Trinity. Jesus said before Abraham I Am so that that shows He
    was alive before the miracle of His birth through Mary plus the term I Am
    was used by God when He appeared in the bush to Moses so for Jesus to
    use the term I Am Shows He is co-eternal with God the Father/Holy Spirit.

  • Caroline Walker

    Rev. Toner, what has happened is a break in the understanding of what marriage is as sacrament from the Catholic understanding that prevailed among all Christians until about 1930, when Protestants began accepting contraception and divorce. Once marriage becomes viewed as primarily about the emotions of adults as opposed to the binding of man and woman in a one-flesh union that is open to the transmission of life, we are no longer talking about the same thing. Those of us who oppose SSM do not doubt that gay men and women can and do love & commit with “equal” fervor. Catholic teaching holds that we are “made in His image…man and woman he created them.” This means that together male and female reflect the image of God. “The difference between them is not a question of contrast or subordination, but instead of communion and generation, always in the image and semblance of God.” — Pope Francis. SSM redefines family, dissolving fatherhood & motherhood.

  • kathleen

    The Holy Roman Catholic Church is the one instituted by Jesus Christ. And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against Her. Those inside and outside the Church over these past two thousand years have not been able to destroy Her, and that is true today no matter how many who call themselves Catholics, or Christians from other churches, interpret the Bible and the Catechism to fit their own beliefs, their desire to conform to the secular culture. May Jesus have mercy on all of us, and this great country that has been “transformed” as President Obama said it would be. Our president turned the White House (his house?) into a rainbow of colors in celebration of the Supreme Court’s decision to legalize same-sex “marriage”. Would a conservative religious president in the future be allowed to have a nativity scene on the grounds of the White House in the future? Governor Huckabee asked that question on a talk show today. Good question.

  • FD

    I am an Episcopalian. It saddens me to read comments by some Roman Catholic writers on this thread that are condemnatory in tone. Jesus said nothing about same sex relations and Paul very little.
    Most New Testament passages about marriage are trying to get men & women to behave. Monogamous heterosexuality has always been a problem which both Jesus and Paul tried to address.
    The Roman Church’s true position? From Paragraph 2358 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered , constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard must be avoided.”
    I find very little sensitive compassion in many of the comments.
    Don’t Romans pin real hopes on purgatory? I’ve yet to meet a perfect Roman Catholic. Can’t gay Catholics go to purgatory? No grace…

  • FD

    LDS man, I am gay, 58 years old and still a virgin, and that for religious reasons.
    You don’t know what you are talking about.

  • Ro Na

    FD- There is no purgatory. When Jesus died He first went to a place called
    Abrahams bosom which was the place people went who were saved before Jesus went to the Cross….now people die they go straight to heaven if they are saved. 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 lists all who won’t go to heaven unless they Repent. We need to love in Truth. If a person is still getting drunk,a gossip and a mean spirited greedy coveter they are just as wrong as the practicing homosexual and so are people who have premarital sex because sex is for
    marriage between a man and an woman. 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 plus also
    in Romans 1:18-32 makes that very clear. Luke 13 says we all must Repent!
    Grace does allows us to sin but Grace allows us to Repent! Big difference!
    We all must Repent!

  • Ro Na

    Correction above. The Grace does not allow us to sin but Grace allows us
    to Repent. Big difference. We all must Repent!

  • Horace Limpey

    Guys, guys, just stop for a moment – you do realise that God isn’t real, right?

  • Ro Na

    Horace-Read Romans 1:18-32 cause the earth didn’t just create itself. God is
    real. It takes more faith to say the earth created itself than to believe in God.
    Read the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel and also read the book Jesus among
    other gods by Ravi Zacharias. Bible prophecy accuracy proves Bible is Truth.

  • Jake

    Interesting you use the phrase “gate keepers” when that is exactly what Christ made Peter.

  • Jake

    Can a woman who is married love a man who is not her husband? Do they have the right to call their love righteous and committed?

  • Larry

    “You can’t do that while thumbing your nose at His creative design and purpose in creating male and female and His laws as to the right expression of sexuality”

    That is your opinion and many are not willing to create such obvious excuses and cop outs for a clearly unambiguous commandment.

    By such token, the fact that you feel the need to speak on such subjects violates his laws as to the role of women as he created them. God clearly does not expect women to speak on scriptural matters.

    “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home.”
    1 Corinthians 14:35

    You are violating your 1st Commandment to love thy God with such unholy arrogance on your part! 🙂

    But then again religious belief is not supposed to be consistent or rational. One uses whatever arguments suit one’s purpose.

  • Shawnie5

    “God clearly does not expect women to speak on scriptural matters.”

    Hee hee…We’ll discuss this someday when we meet up in church. This is not a church.

    “That is your opinion and many are not willing to create such obvious excuses and cop outs for a clearly unambiguous commandment.”

    True, but then again many people have no earthly idea what “agape” love is within a scriptural context. Including you.

  • Shawnie5

    We know from Josephus that Herod Antipas loved Herodias. And yet John the Baptist, the man Jesus declared greater than any man ever born until Himself, was martyred simply for shooting straight and honest with Herod by telling him, “It is not lawful for you to have her.”

    Love can never turn wrong into right.

  • LDSMan

    Right!!!(sarcasm on)

  • Nancy D.

    It is not threatening to desire that our beloved be treated with Dignity and respect in private as well as in public. It is an act of Love to desire that our beloved not participate in any act, including any sexual act, that does not respect their inherent Dignity as a beloved son or daughter. Those who do not care whether or not our sons and daughters engage in appropriate sexual acts, lack charity, and do not desire to protect our children from harm.
    You should never underestimate the value of a Loving friendship that desires only that which is Good for the other and thus never views the other as a means to an end or desires to identify oneself or the other, according to sexual attraction/desire/inclination, which sexually objectifies human persons and is demeaning.

  • Nancy D.

    We choose who we desire to be in a relationship with and we choose how we are going to behave in that relationship. Jesus affirmed God’s intention for Marriage and The Family :
    “Have you not heard that from The Beginning, God Created them male and female, and for THIS (singular, proximal, demonstrative) reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, so that they are no longer two, but one, therefor, what God Has Joined together, let no man put asunder.” – Jesus The Christ.
    Do you deny that Christ made clear God’s intention for Sexual Love within a Holy Marriage? Our call to Holiness is a call to Love according to The Word of God. God Is The Author of Love, Life, and Marriage. To deny this truth from The Beginning, is to deny the essence of God.

  • SMC

    I am so proud of you. And Jesus Christ is too. Keep it up. ? I know you had to work and practice @ being chaste and pure your whole life. It is a battle. God gave you a gift of being unselfish. I relate even though I am a woman. A grandmother, & mother. When I finally left my abusive husband 20 years ago, I comitted many hetrosexual sins in reaction to much pain. I had a strong faith since childhood, but then became weak, misled, lost. I even left my Catholic Church I loved so. After years of searching for truth and, when I was ready, Jesus looked down at me and picked me up. (like Mary Magdalene). He offered me real love. I confessed my sins & came back to the Church. Jesus gave me His life and Mother Mary to help me stay pure. I love single life now. I am complete. My life consists of love, rosary, other prayer & especially holy Mass & Eucharist. And that helps me stay forgiving and loving. I hate SIN. It blinds and destroys lives. God is LOVE itself. Thank You Lord over all!

  • Polly Toner

    On this day when Americans celebrate progress we have made toward Independence and Freedom for all, I am
    mindful of the work we have yet to do, and the way literal and cherry picking methods of Biblical study have justified slavery, abuse, unjust distribution of resources…I attempt to use God’s love and grace as the lens through with I encounter the Word. Otherwise? Inconsistency abounds, and child abuse, rape, slavery, misogyny, prejudice are all okay. Shellfish, shaving, pork and wearing mixed fabrics are all prohibited along w/ homosexuality. In the words of Rev. Matthew Helms, “It can be tempting to assume that we know what true faith and devotion looks like or how one is supposed to worship and act. But Jesus challenges us, just as he challenged his first-century Jewish audience, to expand our understanding of who is a part of God’s kingdom. Jesus has not come just for those who look and act like us. Instead he has come for all!”

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  • Janine Bryant

    Polly; I want to thank you for your eloquent articulation of our position we now have taken in the PCUSA. It came after years of begging our general assembly’s to hear us. They finally did. One of the reasons I am and remain Presbyterian is that we trust God. We trust God’s guidance through the Holy Spirit at every level of church membership. Lay person, deacon, elder, teaching elder such as yourself–and I, as a transgendered woman–am thankful to God that I no longer feel left out of the community and family that is the church. It is difficult to deal with the bigotry that remains in all churches and society–but bigotry is born of ignorance and fear and it leads to easy answers and misuse of scripture as our friends who maintain their opposition to openness to the Holy Spirit. I do pray and hope for a continued openness to that spirit and a growing sense of forgiveness toward those who do not accept us. Bless you pastor, and thank you. Shalom……….Janine

  • WJ Boylan

    Me wonders why Bishop Chaput is SO homophobic. I’ll give you three guesses and the first two don’t count!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!