• Ted

    Or, perhaps you just need to believe in what Jesus Christ commanded: love God and love your neighbor. The rest is commentary.

    I know. It’s way too simple for Pharisees.

  • Doc Anthony

    So let’s ask the question: Where in Scripture does either God or Jesus ever say, “The rest is commentary?”

  • Ro Na

    If we say one sin is okay then we have to say all sin is okay and no sin is okay
    and the Bible is very,very clear that we are not to practice sin! Luke 13 says
    to Repent or perish! 1 Corinthians 5,6 and 7 plus in Romans 1:18-32 also in
    Matthew 7:13-23 make it clear we all must Repent/change. We must Repent!
    People today seem to forget Jesus said many will say to Me Lord, Lord and
    not enter heaven so people who get drunk,be mean,gossip,gamble,sell sex
    and sleep around/still live for and still practice better stop! We must Repent!

  • Greg1

    Up next? Isn’t that already their requirement?

  • Greg1

    The word “Love” in the bible in most cases refers to Charity (Agape), the other words for love are few and far between (Philos – brotherly love, Eros – erotic love). So let’s not twist what the Bible says.

  • Garson Abuita

    I assume never Doc, but ironically the “Pharisee” Rabbi Hillel, who died in Jerusalem in 10 CE, summarized the Torah by saying “what is hateful to you, do not do to others. The rest is commentary.”

  • Garson Abuita

    Thanks for this ‘Splainer btw, I was one of those non-Episcopalians left scratching their heads at today’s news article.

  • Be Brave

    crowe,

    That’s already the case with that apostate org.

    Except, “all are welcomed” except those that follow the Gospel.

  • Be Brave

    Q: So what changes will Episcopalians see?

    A: The main change will be to the existing marriage liturgy.

    You know, the teaching that Jesus was a lying, hateful, bigoted homophobe.

    That new liturgy.

    Ah what a great new “Christian” doctrine. Makes the atheists proud. And demons rejoice.

  • Be Brave

    Garson,

    STAY a non-Episcopalian.

    That’s as close I have ever come to proselytizing at this website. But the further away you get from this heresy and that apostate church and its utterly false doctrines, the better.

  • larry

    You are not even cutting it on that definition either.

    “Brotherly love” is not hate and mistreat people. You said yourself, “these people do not deserve respect of dignity”. There is nothing in that phrase that showed an ounce of concern or love of thy neighbor. The only people twisting the Bible are one’s like yourself who proof text it to look for excuses to act badly towards others.

  • larry

    Except they are choosing not to add qualifiers and weaselwording to Jesus’s own statements concerning how we treat others. Apostate to your brand of Christianity. A brand which has zero socially redeeming characteristics whatsoever.

  • Shawnie5

    Oh, they have all kinds of qualifiers to Jesus’ commands to “rebuke your brother if he sins and if he repents forgive” and to “beware of false teachers” and ‘woe to you when the world [looking at Larry] speaks well of you” and to not “abandon the commands of God for the teachings of men.”

    But tell me again how an atheist’s take on an intra-church matter is in any way helpful…?

  • larry

    Whatever makes you feel better about behaving so badly. Its your religion. Just don’t expect people who have not been as indoctrinated in its excuses and apologia to accept it so readily at face value.

    ‘But tell me again how an atheist’s take on an intra-church matter is in any way helpful…?”

    Because it shows you guys can’t even get along with fellow believers, let alone those who do not share the faith. It speaks badly for your brand of belief. That it is not just atheists who think your views are worthy of criticism. That people like yourself do not speak for the entirety of your faith. The conflict you guys have is as much Christian v Christian as it is Christian v. Everyone else.

  • Greg1

    Any person on the highest court of our nation, who flippantly makes oddball unilateral decisions of great magnitude, then states very plainly afterwards that the decision was based more on emotion than the written text of the Constitution, then why would I extend any of them respect? The head scratcher is where do they think they even received the authority to just make up law? It is not in our Constitution. By doing this they have placed us squarely in the post-Constitution era of this nation. We have entered into unknown territory. My belief at this point is we need to reform this federal government. Laws have to mean something, or there is no law. Like it or not we have some strange characters on the SCOTUS…

  • Man has always been looking for a license to sin. Today, the homosexual community seems to think that they have one. Think again. Although some men of corrupt minds may have granted a license to sin, God has NOT. God never will. So, some will go on deceiving themselves that their actions have been somehow condoned, when in fact such actions are abhorrent to God and will indeed incur His judgment and wrath. Repent! Receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. Turn away from sin and lies and self-deceptions and abide in Him. Then you will know peace and joy and blessing.

  • Shawnie5

    “Because it shows you guys can’t even get along with fellow believers, let alone those who do not share the faith. It speaks badly for your brand of belief.”

    Oh, and does it also speak badly for the brand of faith of “fellow believers who do not share our faith” that they do not get along with us?

    Larry, this is really nothing new. People have been trying to bring sexual immorality into the church and OK it ever since Paul’s day, and even before then. Same old same old. And even if I were not up to snuff on scripture and history, a good rule of thumb is that whatever side of a moral issue that the secular world approves of, such as yours, is probably the wrong track for the church.

  • Doc Anthony

    Episcopalians, you have messed up. You are wiped out. Self-inflicted.

    Gone gig, baby. There’s no other way to put it. Sorry.

  • Thecla

    Golly, why don’t we Episcopalians get credit for supporting gay rights and recognizing same-sex marriage?

    From one side, we get kicked in the teeth by Fundagelicals (see some of the Bible-thumping comments on this thread) who don’t even recognize us as Christians at all. From the other side the general public assumes that, as Christians, we’re just a bunch of homophobic, socially conservative, evolution- and climate-change-denying Evangelical Bible-thumpers.

    How do we get the word out? How about flying a rainbow flag from every church, and maybe a big banner saying ‘We are not Evengelicals!’ Believe what you will, behave as you please and enjoy our fancy liturgy.

  • ART

    Regarding the above comments and parsing on “love” – God so loved the world – so why did the love of Jesus end His earthly life on a cross? Short answer, because He became sin for me and maybe you as well. Choose wisely what you ridicule and accept; Jesus you can spit on, but not the Spirit. Cheers everybody!

  • Greg1

    Thelca, the Episcopalians are proving the Catholic Church to have been correct. They felt they could leave the Church our Lord founded, and as long as they held fast to some of the rituals, they would be okay, but we can see now how far they have drifted from Truth. What did Jesus pray for at the Last Supper for his Church? “Father … they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. (John 17). But we can see now that The Episcopal Church has become part of the world; it cares more about conforming to secular humanism, than to God. Thelca, your church does not need to prove itself to anyone, as it is quite clear who it is serving.

  • Thecka

    On ethical issues, the World–at least the world of educated, lefty-liberals is absolutely right. I’m fine with the Church conforming to the World. I just wish the World would recognize that and support the Episcopal Church. As I say, ‘believe what you want, behave as you please, and enjoy the fancy liturgy’. Hello, World! C’mon in! The Episcopal Church welcomes you!

  • Greg1

    Well at least you know that you guys are following the World, and not Our Lord: “[Jesus] said to His disciples, “It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come! 2″It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3″Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him” (Luke 17). We’ll be praying for your conversion.

  • Thecla

    I’m not speaking for us guys–just for myself. The essence of religion is metaphysics–claims about the existence and nature of a supernatural being or beings–and ceremonies. Not ethics. Ethics is a secular discipline, a field in philosophy. Over the years, churches have dropped claims to expertise in cosmology, biology, Middle Eastern history and other secular subjects. Time they drop claims to expertise in ethics. On ethics, as in cosmology, biology and Middle Eastern history the World is right.

  • Thecla

    True. So what? Churches provide goodies for metphysical speculation. Enjoy playing with them. Believe if you find convincing (I do). But don’t worry if you don’t. All are welcome. As a matter of fact I’d bet that at least 10% of laypeople and probably 40+ % of clergy are atheists. Join us!

  • Whatever

    Y’know what? I couldn’t give a flying * about Scripture of Jesus. My God is Church. I worship Church, I adore Church, Church is my God–the incarnation of the Holy Spirit–so there. I detest the Bible–one of the most boring, stupid collections of literature ever preserved, and I have never warmed to Jesus, an uneducated, lower class street preacher of absolutely no interest. I worship Church–the buildings, the art, the music, the silverware, the whole thing. Church is my God. Amen. And I couldn’t care about sin or any of this crap, so long as there are the buildings and ceremonies for me to enjoy.

  • Thecla

    Absolutely correct. What matters is participation in the ceremonies and support, financial and otherwise, for maintaining the buildings and producing the ceremonies. End of story.

  • Larry

    Of course its nothing new. One of the appeals of fundamentalism is the delusion that one speaks for the entirety of Christendom. How it enables anti-social behavior. How it absolves one of any socially redeeming activities such as charity and compassion towards others which is allegedly inherent (but exceedingly rare) to the faith.

    “a good rule of thumb is that whatever side of a moral issue that the secular world approves of, such as yours, is probably the wrong track for the church.”

    Which speaks badly for your church. A bunch of reactionaries with no sense of moral conduct or propriety. Its why you guys lie so readily, extol discrimination, are so easily whipped up into pogroms and are so disagreeable to concepts of religious freedom.

  • Larry

    “From the other side the general public assumes that, as Christians, we’re just a bunch of homophobic, socially conservative, evolution- and climate-change-denying Evangelical Bible-thumpers.”

    It would be helpful if you guys bothered publicly opposing the fungelical’s on that front once in a blue moon. Instead of we get people chiming in as “NALT”s (Not All Like That) when others make generalizations about Christians. The only reason the general public makes such assumptions is because non “thumpers” are curiously quiet on most fronts.

    “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
    -WB Yeats.

  • Larry

    A decision, you still haven’t read and can’t tell me squat about other than you didn’t like its result.

    What about their reasoning did you find suspect or unconsitutional? You have no clue. You still can’t wrap your head around the simple text of, “no state shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” (14th Amendment).

    So don’t give me that dishonest bullcrap of not adhering to the text. You don’t know what it was in the first place. Your belief at this point is guided by ignorance and whiny feelings of false entitlement. You want laws to reflect your irrational and sectarian prejudices.

    That being said, you can’t even abide by your own definition of “love” that Jesus asked for people to do to their neighbors.

  • Thecla

    I’ve heard this over and over and over again from you people. Now you just tell me how. I am a crank who comments on a variety of message boards, and who has been kicked off of some, and I tell the world how much I, as an Episcopalian, hate and detest Evangelicals and everything they stand for. If I expressed my level of contempt, disgust and pure hatred for Evangelicals I’d get kicked off this board too. Contrary to what you people say we mainline Christians detest Evangelicals and say so. You aren’t listening. How loud do we have to shout?

  • Jack

    Ted, it’s borderline bigotry to use “Pharisee” in that context….and it’s been used to defame the Jews and Judaism for millennia.

    In reality, most of the Pharisees were dedicated teachers of the Torah to their people. When Jesus ripped into some Pharisees, he was doing so in a deliberately ironic way, precisely because the role of Pharisee was an honored calling. At one point He said they sat “in the seat of Moses.”

  • Jack

    LOL — I don’t think anyone has to be warned not to join the Episcopalians…..it’s like saying, “please don’t join that roomful of snoozing octogenarians.”

  • Jack

    The Episcopal Church has……drumroll, please….spoken!

    The Right Reverend Ellington Wellington Cufflink III will now deliver his homily, titled, “Finger to the Wind: How Not to Be Prophetic,” as a procession of 85-year-olds sporting nose rings, tattoos, and blue-green hair enters the sanctuary.

  • Oh, about this loud: EVERYBODY COMMENTING ON MY STORY HERE JUST CALM RIGHT DOWN. RIGHT NOW. How’s that? Be civil or take it somewhere else.

  • Trying to please the world while attacking God’s people will not get you what you are seeking. You are confused. It seems what you really seek is approval from others. Seeking the approval of men rather than the approval of God is a recipe for misery. Man will let you down, God will never let you down. Rather than hating those who bring you the truth you may want to listen to them sometime. “Unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God”…Jesus John 3:3 Before I was born again I was not happy. I did not have joy and peace in my life. After I received Christ as my Savior and Lord I felt God’s forgiveness of sins and was filled with His peace and joy and gladness all the time. We need Jesus. The real Jesus. Not the one that is made in the image of man, but the One who made man in God’s image.