DIY Faith Opinion

How to talk about racism in the church without becoming bitter

Fannie Lou Hamer, of Ruleville, Miss., speaks to Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party supporters outside the Capitol in Washington, D.C., on Sept. 17, 1965, after the House of Representatives rejected a challenge to the 1964 election of five Mississippi representatives. Hamer and two other African-American women were seated on the floor of the House while the challenge was being considered. She said, “We'll come back year after year until we are allowed our rights as citizens.” The challengers claimed that African-Americans were excluded from the election process in Mississippi. (AP Photo/William J. Smith)

(RNS) — The American church has a problem with racism.

The issue is not new.

It includes support in the past for appalling acts such as lynching and racial terrorism and ongoing, inexcusable apathy. Although much has changed, the path toward deep diversity, authentic inclusion and radical repair remains long. Much of my time is spent telling Christians about the past and present concerning racism in the nation and the congregation.

Christians engaged in anti-racism work risk becoming bitter toward the church. In my speaking and travels, people often ask me, “How do you talk about racism without becoming bitter?”

Or they ask a similar question from a different angle: “How do you maintain hope in the midst of so much evil?”

There’s no easy answer.

At times, I’ve been tempted to give up on church people in frustration. Especially white evangelicals.

The 2018 midterm elections, for instance, revealed that yet again, white evangelicals chose to support a brand of politics that is inimical to people of color. In spite of the fear-mongering and overtly racist appeals of some candidates, 75 percent of white evangelicals voted for Republicans in the midterms.

Two years into his administration, white evangelicals remain the only religious group in which a majority view Trump favorably. More than 70 percent of self-identified white evangelical or born-again Christians have a favorable view of the president. Seventy-five percent of black Protestants have an unfavorable view.

It appears to me, as a person of color, that white evangelicals have little regard for my voice or those of people like me. Attempting to voice the concerns of black Christians among white churchgoers and receiving so much opposition makes it difficult sometimes for me to read the Bible and go to church.

I am still healing from wounds I’ve accrued over years of writing, speaking and teaching about racism and injustice. But no matter how discouraging the racial conditions in the church become, bitterness is not a healthy option.

To be clear, voting for Republicans is not the issue. The issue is Christians saying they support racial reconciliation on the one hand while simultaneously supporting politicians — in this case, Republicans — who traffic in racism and xenophobia on the other.

At moments like this, I think of Fannie Lou Hamer.

Fannie Lou Hamer, a leader of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party, speaks before the credentials committee of the Democratic National Convention in Atlantic City, N.J., on Aug. 22, 1964, in an effort to win accreditation for the group as Mississippi’s delegation to the convention. The Freedom group, composed almost entirely of African-Americans, was opposed by the regular all-white Mississippi delegation. (AP Photo)

Born in 1917 in rural Mississippi, Hamer was the last of 20 children immersed in a life of poverty as a sharecropper. In her 40s, she got involved in the civil rights movement after she heard young activists give a presentation about voting rights.

She then dedicated her life to fighting for equal rights for black people and more humane treatment of the poor.

One night in 1963, Hamer and some fellow civil rights activists, all of whom were black, were taken into custody on spurious charges by white police officers. The law enforcement officials took them to a jail and proceeded to beat each one, including Hamer. The harrowing experience left her with permanent health problems and emotional wounds such as depression. But that didn’t stop her from loving people, even her enemies.

“I feel sorry for anybody that could let hate wrap them up,” she said. “Ain’t no such thing as I can hate anybody and hope to see God’s face.”

When I think of saints like Fannie Lou Hamer and how they endured far more than I ever have in the fight for racial equality, I cannot engage in the self-indulgence of bitterness.

I have to keep striding toward freedom because I am part of a legacy of freedom fighters who have struggled under far more adverse conditions and yet maintained hope in God and the church.

Another way I find hope is through community. Through my work, I’ve met true allies across the color line. These women and men are quick to listen and slow to speak, which makes them more informed and more effective collaborators for change.

I have also been deeply enriched by friendships with people of color. Black Christians, who often make up a minority whether in church or school or the workplace, need regular contact with others who share similar experiences and backgrounds. We need a group where we can vent, laugh and recharge — folks around whom we don’t have to explain our existence. We need relationships with people who “get it.”

Finally, I try to keep the racial situation in the church in perspective by distinguishing between the universal church and particular people and congregations. I have often felt betrayed by specific Christians and churches. Individual Christians have berated me to my face — telling me how I get race wrong. Churches and denominations have rescinded speaking invitations, and many, many others have been bold in asserting that race is a social or a political issue, but not a gospel one.

In the face of such barbs, I have grown cautious.

I do my best to carefully choose speaking engagements and writing platforms that will let me communicate my views freely while not exposing me to malicious criticism. Unfortunately, many predominantly white Christian outlets and organizations prove extremely hostile to any anti-racist messages. But those particular places do not represent the church as a whole.

Christ is building his church. And as the Gospel of Matthew tells us, the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

The church is a beautiful bulwark against bitterness. It is a church that spans across time, nations, races and ethnicities. It is an undefeated community. It is this church, imperfect though it is, that persuades me to persist. It is Christ’s church, universal and precious, that Christians who hate racism should fight to improve.

While the bigotry of individual Christians and institutions may bend us toward bitterness, the beauty of Christ’s bride hearkens us back to hope.

(Jemar Tisby is president of The Witness: A Black Christian Collective,  co-host of the podcast Pass The Mic and author of “The Color of Compromise: The Truth About the American Church’s Complicity in Racism.” Follow him on Twitter @JemarTisby. The views expressed in this commentary do not necessarily represent those of Religion News Service.)

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Jemar Tisby

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  • 1. Let’s remember that it took the Southern Baptist convention until **1995** to apologize for its racist history.

    2. Evangelical churches, and southern churches, will undoubtedly remain focused on abortion issues to the exclusion of everything else. After all, Jesus had nothing to say about race hatred, and lots to say about matters like abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism,…….

  • Here we go again!!! RNS loves the White Guilt.

    Multi Culturism is simply Code-Word for Anti-White.

    Africa for the Africans………………Asia for the Asians………………but for some strange reason, White Nations are now open to Everyone!!! And we will even pay your rent and feed your children.

    “Who” came up with this destructive idea???!!!

    Ask Barbara Lerner Spectre.

  • Racism is a difficult topic, all the more so because no racial or political label is magically immune from doing racism.

    But, difficult topic or not, there’s people on all sides who at least try to do good.

  • We white people need to understand that the chances of a real Jesus not loving and being as concerned about all people—-all races, all individuals, all locations, all circumstances of development—-as he is about us are (wait for it) zero. The problem (IMHO) with the persistent appearance of racism, despite Church influence, (even INSIDE Church influence) is that many people are more God-The-Creator, God-The-Omnipotent, God-The-Word focused than they are Jesus-focused. Why it is that people in the churches can “get saved” all over the place without INSTANTLY knowing they HAVE TO try (try) to love EVERY one else in tangible (tangible) ways is beyond my understanding. It was the first thing I ever understood about “being a Christian”. I was younger than ten when I understood it.

    Racism (IMHO) is a problem of bad theology, careless theology, inadequate theology. The simplest, most basic, most universal “thing” can so easily be lost in the fog of endless Bible probing instead of heart probing. Jesus would not have us hating each other, berating each other, marginalizing each other, trying to take advantage of each other. Period. We have preaching “till the cows long since came home”, and much of it hides the message instead of illuminating the message.

  • “The American church has a problem with racism.”

    Given the fact that there is no American church, but somewhere between 1,500 and 3,500 churches in America, that is quite a trick.

  • Thanks for the kind and thoughtful words.

    I am learning a lot about the methodologies we need to put into place in order to break racism’s hold upon the white American church, and what we need to do to break the acts of hatred against our brothers and sisters of color who are so beloved by God and who, by extension, should also be so beloved by us as they are our brothers and sisters.

    I appreciate the honesty about the actions of our past and our present, and the honesty of your emotions and your thoughts and your reactions.

    We have a task before us to expunge the sins of our fathers and ourselves with regards to racism. It is a hard, difficult, and enormous task, but it is something we have to do.

  • There is a great new book coming out soon about how the American white church is focused on individualism and individual acts being necessary to break racism, and that while it is true that individuals must break individual racist acts, the systems of racism and hatred are systemic and wide-scale, and require systemic breaking.

    The book, “The Color of Compromise,” won’t be out until January of 2019, but it is already available for pre-order, on TheColorOfCompromise.com as well as online and brick-and-mortar retailers.

    If you are interested in your part and in the part of your systems to identify racism and break it, I’d heartily suggest getting this book.

  • I believe Mr. Tisby is referring to the white church as a whole while mentioning specific local and regional aspects.

    There’s a great book coming out on the actions of the white American church to both accommodate itself to white racism and white supremacy, as well as to promulgate it and extend it. “The Color of Compromise” will be released in January, and it lays out a case for the actions of white American Christians and church as being part of the extension of white supremacy.

    It’s desireable to want this to be a case of an individual here or there, or even an individual assembly here and there, but it’s larger than that.

  • “Africa for the Africans … Asia for the Asians…”
    Your history books didn’t mention the part about White People With Guns going to China and India and Africa? Your commitment to “ignorance is bliss” is awesome.

  • Speaking of “bad theology, careless theology, inadequate theology”, being “God-The-Word focused” cannot be contrasted to “Jesus focused”, for the simple reason that Jesus IS God-The-Word.

  • This suddenly sounds to me like an introduction to the rationalizing theology which tolerates racism everywhere it goes. The God-The-Word focused people believe that anything they can support by some (any) passage from the Book is okey-dokey. It this were true, you would need no Holy Spirit. You could just quote something or other and treat others according to all the prior practices ever reported which Jesus came to fix. Slavery? No problem. Scripture can be found to explain it away in both OT and NT. Sure enough, the God-The-Word people did exactly that for quite some time. Maybe your Jesus approved that. Mine never did.

  • There you go………………accelerating the “White Guilt”.

    “So White people did such and such; so therefore they deserve genocide.”

    Nice. But thanks for your honesty.

  • Yes, yes of course……………….the 14 words are Racist —

    “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for whiteJewish children.”

    Not Racist.

  • 1 – Since there is no American church, and therefore no American white church, the target appears to be mythical.

    2 – Since in the United States the 1,500 to 3,500 individual denominations operate independently and with no oversight (First Amendment), the notion that whatever they’re doing “naughty” will “require systemic breaking” when there is no system to break them appears to be zany.

  • Are White People With Guns currently going to China and India and Africa?

    Or are you just reminding folks you have axes to grind?

  • While yours sounds like another version of the White Man’s Burden and the non-religious critique of religions.

  • White people are in no danger of genocide. You can relax.

    Native who were here were subject to genocide, however

    And Africans have been on this continent and in this hemisphere drive the time Europeans came along and invaded.

    So if you want to say Europe for Europeans, go ahead, but the Americas aren’t the exclusive playgrounds for Europeans.

    Plus you’re gonna be shocked when you realize that sub Saharan Africans have been in Europe for at least two millennia, and that Africans were responsible for the continuation and definition of orthodox Christianity.
    Seems like Europeans may owe as much larger debt to Mother Africa than they want to admit.

  • I have no idea what you are trying to say.

    Our Lord Jesus was (and still is) Jewish, as were the apostles Peter and Paul and John, as was the mother of Jesus, Mary.

    Jews are the foundation of the church.

  • No, it sounds like basic Christian theology ,of which you appear to be blissfully ignorant. Jesus has been called the Word since the days of the Apostles. See John 1:1-17. It has nothing to do with racism, slavery, or anything else. It concerns the pre-existence of the Word before his incarnation of Mary and the Holy Spirit. Before you start lecturing anyone about Scripture, try familiarizing yourself with it, Bible 101. Then you won’t look so foolish.

    As for “your” Jesus, if he’s not the Word -as his beloved disciple John said – then he never existed, being simply a product of your own imagining.

  • Agreeing to disagree more or less rests on the notion that we have our facts in order and differ in interpretation.

    Apparently the fact that you can’t point to the object of your endeavor does not register as something askew at your end, which seems to torpedo agreeing to disagree.

  • ‘Yo, Jemar – “[Only] Republicans … traffic in racism and xenophobia”, you say, ever so deceitfully?

    FYII (For Your Insult to the Intelligence), here’s a Critical Dialectic Whataboutism for y’all:

    (1) “What needs to be said in a very straightforward way is that the Democratic party is straight-up racist. The structural racism that we’re talking about dismantling is in the party. And this is one of the reasons why it’s frustrating to be standing up on a stage at a Democratic party behind speeches behind made about Republicans dividing the country.”

    (2) “A spokesman for South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley Friday fired back at the latest in a long string of attacks that seem to invoke her status as an Indian-American woman presiding over her Southern state. South Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Dick Harpootlian, a trial lawyer, longtime Democratic leader, and legendary figure in local politics, reportedly told a South Carolina Democratic Party dinner that the Democratic challenger would send ‘Nikki Haley back to wherever the hell she came from.’ Haley was born in South Carolina. Her parents are from India.”

    Source: (1) Massachusetts Democrat State Representative-Elect Nika Elugardo (yes, needless to say, she’s an African-American, too), in Michael P. Norton, “‘Straight-up racist;’ Massachusetts Democrats raise concerns with party leadership”, State House News Service / MassLive, November 13, 2018. (2) Ben Smith, “Top South Carolina Democrat Wants To Send Nikki Haley ‘Wherever The H*ll She Came From’: Haley’s spokesman blasts ‘lowest common denominator’ politics”, BuzzFeed News, May 3, 2013.

  • White people in North America are in no danger of genocide.

    That cannot be said of every place everywhere.

  • It’s not that I am unfamiliar with the Bible. I just reject the use of written words in it by some folks for the purpose of making religion into supposedly God-approved meanness. Why are you arguing with me for noticing that plenty of White Bible Thumpers have a rich history of being racist? The American South is called the Bible Belt. It is literally saturated in the written Word of God and yet hosted slavery, the Civil War, another century of Jim Crow and a disproportionate percentage of today’s crackpots. Why would this be? Lots and lots of Bible and terrible attitudes toward other races coinciding in a remarkable correlation?

    There are theories to explain this. One of them is that the more a person probes around in the demanded inerrancy of his/her scripture, the less tolerant of anything sensible he or she becomes. The “Word” cannot and does not fix people. The “Spirit” does—–but they are not interchangeable. How do we know this? The science of observation.

  • It’s not that he unfamiliar with the Bible.

    It’s just that he knows what he likes it to mean and who he dislikes (White Bible Thumpers).

  • “We have a task before us to expunge the sins of our fathers and ourselves with regards to racism.”

    Do we get credit if our fathers died so that blacks could be free?

    And as to “the methodologies we need to put into place in order to” fix whatever it is you think is wrong with whatever you appear believe constitutes “the white American church”, does it involve involuntary confinement, mandatory reeducation camps, or anything using high voltage?

  • I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “people on all sides,” but it could be that I’m trying to understand what the sides might be. (There can be more than one side, of course, in any discussion, and there can be multiple sides.)

    In your mind, what are the various sides that you are talking about? I’m just curious. Your answer can help me understand what you say better and what I myself am trying to puzzle out.

  • WRONG. “The cause of BITTERNESS is [NOT] self-pity and self-focus”, but because:

    (1) “Your heart is not right before God … [and so] you are in the gall of BITTERNESS and in the bondage of iniquity.”

    (2) Human beings – “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin …whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”.

    (3) “You walk … just as the Gentiles also walk, in … bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander”.

    (4) You don’t “pursue … sanctification without which no one will see the Lord … [and, instead, the] root of bitterness spring[s] up caus[ing] trouble, and by it many be defiled”.

    See? You don’t know your bible. Nor does Jemar Tisby.

    Source: (1) Acts 8:21, 23. (2) Romans 3:9, 14. (3) Ephesians 4:17, 31. (4) Hebrews 12:14-15.

  • No, what’s “oddly enough” is you’re cowering after your 2-second moment of grandeur.

    Rebut Mark Connelly is all I ask.

    And oh yeah “But thanks for [br]aying.”

  • Thanks to God & Jesus using “white American Christians and church” – me & my beloved & our loved ones are now born-from-above, fired-up and die-hard followers of THE Christ Jesus of the gospels, epistles and revelation. We’re all enduring the cross that we carry in our lives of faith in response to the ransoming Fatherly love of God through the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of His own beloved Son, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel and the savior of the rest of the world.

    HOW DARE YOU.

    Who do you think you are!

    Have you no fear of God & Jesus?!

  • And what is The Racist History of The Dems of Thieves, exactly? Or of America, England, Australia, Holland for that matter?

    Oh and uh what is The Racist History of One Howard Kay, exactly?

  • So Stephen Matlock & Jemar Tisby star in The Odd Couple movie remake, then?

    I hope he appreciates your shilling, King Canute! He deserves it.

  • Re: In the case of FriendlyGoat meh-eh-eh-ing “anyone about Scripture … look[ing] so foolish” – I second that motion.

  • And to go nicely with that diatribal manifesto, like raccoon-proof lids on your curb-side garbage bins, are:

    (1) “Race Baiter, Jemar Tisby, Wants Less Racial Integration in Churches”, Pulpit & Pen, August 23, 2017.

    (2) “An Open Reply to Jemar Tisby and ‘The Downside of Integration for Black Christians'”, The Aquila Report, August 24, 2017.

  • Today’s word for you is:

    REDUNDANCY.

    For example: “Building up a strawman only to tear it down.”

    No brainer: “Strawman” presupposes both “building” & “tear[ing] down” at the same time.

    In a word:

    DUH.

  • I know nothing of the racist history of any country other than the USA. And as you probably know, we have a pretty bad history of racism.

  • I have been wondering about that lately. I had an Irish-born ancestor who died in a Confederate prison camp, after fighting bravely for the Union. I’m going for those extra credit points.

  • I applaud your tone, here, but I guess I’m shedding the “American” church here. Do you think we should be localizing churches this way? Thanks. The (Not Roman) but definitely TiredCatholic.

  • Bitterness comes from within, not from without. Jesus taught that.

    If you’re going to paste Bible quotes using google, at least interpret them correctly. Better, pray with them.

    Read Ephesians 4 again, in full.

  • I’m not sure what you mean by “localizing churches.” I think there is something very good to be said for the idea of parish/churches, in that a church draws almost entirely from the local congregants to form the local assembly. In my mind, this leads to accountability to our neighbors as well as to our church family.

    I also see the benefit of the idea of affinity-based churches. That is, churches that are based upon an affinity or an idea or a philosophy. Churches that reach out to certain communities regardless of location. An obvious example here are churches that identify with communities of color or churches that have mega-popular pastors with a church population far exceeding their local area.

    I don’t think one pattern fits everything, and I would say that as the people who follow Jesus lean into obedience, they’ll figure out what works best for them.

    For me, the idea of church is a safe place to encounter God in the way that I can apprehend.

    I do enjoy the varieties and the flavors of churches, and while I appreciate some aspects more as a guest, I appreciate how enriching and real the varieties of worship and community are.

  • We are in a difficult position as followers of Jesus here, in that we must speak truth, honestly, to each other, but (IMO) we must also believe and understand that the church belongs foremost to God, and it is his responsibility to lead us and guide us and even purify us.

    I wish we listened better collectively as Christians to the words of God, and that we followed better, but I look at myself and find that I am just as capable of ignoring the hard things as anyone is.

    I think we have to just keep on pushing through this, not only because it is for healing and recovery, but also because it is the right and just thing to do.

  • I’m afraid that Tisby doesn’t have the slightest idea who I am, and would not worry that he doesn’t know me.

    I find that there are people in this world who are healers and who are wise and who are careful.

    I try to listen to them, and to respond to their leadership, and to examine myself.

    How you respond to them–or do not respond–is entirely up to you, not me. My responsibility is to myself and my actions.

  • Although I have been a non-believer for many decades, I cannot disagree with anything you write. I agree with probably 80% or more of what Jesus (allegedly) said; obviously, I don’t believe in god, afterlife, soul, etc.

    My problem is with folks–of ANY religion– who claim to follow all the teachings of that religion, but in fact pick and choose; and/or who have a demonstrated history of racism or ignoring those teachings. My hunch is that there’s probably a commonality of 50% or more of what all religions teach–respect for others, honesty, teachings re sex, etc.

    As well, it’s important to realize that whatever the “official” teachings of any religion are, in fact, they are understood and applied somewhat differently as a function of geography.

    Thee is one religion in particular whose tenets I find particularly disturbing; as it turns out, many of its tenets are ignored in most of the world. No need to mention the name of that religion.

  • Many Christian societies have been equally “saturated in the written Word of God”, yet have not displayed the racism/Jim Crow characteristics of the American South. That is something deriving from the particularities of the history of the South, and should not be considered typical of all cultures “saturated with the Word of God”. One cannot validly generalize based on an anomaly such as the American South.

  • Author Tisby says:

    It appears to me, as a person of color, that white evangelicals have
    little regard for my voice or those of people like me. Attempting to
    voice the concerns of black Christians among white churchgoers and
    receiving so much opposition makes it difficult sometimes for me to read
    the Bible and go to church.

    I think he’s correct, and it is almost always overlooked that black evangelicals have a very different take-away from their beliefs than white evangelicals.

  • I don’t disagree about the followers v. the origins or intent. Whether you’re inside or outside, behavior shows true belief, not words and not doctrines.

    An inclusive church might have great words on paper and sincere people with wonderful hopes–but if it’s a monoculture, then the behavior shows their real values.

    Tisby is saying here that as an outsider to the white evangelical church (and yet a self-professed connected evangelical to the larger theological movement of the Reformed church tradition), that the words expressed by American white Christians have not, and still do not, align with their actions.

    I don’t know Tisby personally, so I can’t offer insight into how he believes or what he means, but I take him to mean these observations in love and brotherly concern.

    The way we bring healing and restoration is by careful but honest observation. White people are unbelievably touchy about white racism. I know of no sure way to have the discussion that does not lead immediately to explosive denial.

    Still, it must be attempted. And in some cases, the persistent attempts at communication do break through to reach understanding and even repentance.

  • Sure, Republicans are all about the values of diversity, recognizing white privilege and fighting racism. /s

  • First, we have to understand that most of “us” (people in general) are tended to harboring a natural prejudice against people not like ourselves, those who are different in color, language, religion, customs, degree of education or “sophistication”, degree of perceived intelligence, mannerisms, habits and famously—sexual orientation. There are flavors of religion which help us resist such natural tendencies and ask us to be more tolerant toward everyone else. And there are flavors of religion which justify or reinforce the natural prejudices we can gin up anyway—–telling us subjectively that it’s okay to be against this group or that group, because they are sinners, or inferior in intelligence, or lazy, or from a genealogic line not favored by God.

    It is my experience that the more a person regards written scripture as the be-all or end-all in philosophical source material, the less tolerant they are. Some of the ultra-orthodox Jews go sorta “crazy” this way, many of the Muslims go even further crazy trying to preserve and hang on every word from Muhammad, and some of our Christians simply go off and live in a pretend world cooked up mostly from Genesis and Revelation—largely disregarding or excusing away what was supposed to be the signature feature of Jesus and our acceptance of him. We are supposed to try more than anything else to love the neighbors—-all of the neighbors. Doing that is how we express love for God. It’s important that this not be covered up or taken away in some supposedly “deeper” level of Bible Study where a bunch of verses can be assembled or dwelt upon to the point of making us callous and mean.

  • I don’t disagree with this. The heart of our religious experience is, by my lights, to love God and to love my neighbor. If we aren’t doing that, then what exactly is our religion for?

  • Oh, I am all for subsidiarity. “Boots on the ground” are at the parish and diocesan levels, for us, too. I’m just fighting the idea of the “church of ——-.” Catholic attempts to be the “Universal” of its name, under one affinity — faith.

  • Thanks. I think that too. These comment sections give us an opportunity to write about such things—–an exercise of mind that most people don’t find the time or reason to do. As you know, the Every-Word-Of-This-Bible-Is-True people have suddenly produced Putinism in Russia and Trumpism in America. I don’t know how we pull it back to a kinder center, but we need to hurry along trying, no?

  • Oh yeah, I have no issue with that.

    I think I understand the desire to be the One True Faith and One True Church, and in my mind the mystic Body of Christ fulfills that desire–all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are his church, his bride, his body. Who wouldn’t want to so honor our Christ as to be in obedience to him and his desire that we would be one?

    Locally all who believe are his church. All those who meet together are his church.

    A church is also the denomination, the local assembly, the local set of buildings and property, the local chapel, the local corporation & legal entity.

    It’s a word with multiple meanings, and we kinda know what we mean when we speak it, but sometimes when we say “church” we mean “denomination/flavor/brand” and sometimes we mean “those who believe, universally in all time and space,” and sometimes we mean “the great big building with the giant cross.”

    I consider myself to be in sales and marketing, not in management. I try to do the best I can for myself, try to be reasonable when asked or provoked, and I leave the ultimate membership and identity up to the Boss.

    If and when I get to heaven, I expect to be surprised at who’s there and who’s not. The biggest surprise is, of course, that I get there at all.

  • First of all………………………Jesus was not jewish. “jewish” and “Israelite” are not synonymous.

    Question — Is a Samaritan living in Judea, an Israelite?

    Is a Chinese man living in Scotland a “Scott”? Of course not.

    In Judea at the time of Christ, there were Edomite Converts to Judaism. Jesus was a Galilean from the Tribe of Judah.

    Lastly……………………Do you criticize Israel for her desire to remain a Jewish State???

    You see…………..you are a hypocrite.

    It is Ok for Blacks to preserve their Race.

    It is Ok for the Chinese to preserve their Race.

    I’m sure you have no problem with La Raza.

    But yet………………………..the 14 words are racist. You are a hypocrite.

  • Mark…………

    I used to live in Atlanta Georgia. I left Atlanta because it was dangerous for my family.

    We moved to the PNW. But before we moved, I did a survey of Elementary School Year Book photos. They say the Caucasians will be a minority in their own land by 2040.

    From my own experience investigating Elementary School Yearbooks, I’d say the Caucasian race is only 10 years away from minority status.

    It is inevitable now, that the White race will disappear from the face of the earth in less than 100 years. Sure, there will be a few of us to keep the machines running, but even here in the United States of America, the Caucasian race who created this Nation, will no longer be a part of this — Soon to be 3rd world hell hole.

    http://www.whitegenocide.info

  • Interestingly the white racial characteristics are genetically dominant.

    That is why folks are startled when they meet an actual bona-fide African.

    My impression is that in one or two hundred years few in North America will be identifiable as African-American.

  • I admire how you hold it all together. Since the Church is the Sacrament of Salvation, Heaven will indeed be a surprising place! I won’t be surprised if Purgatory is on my route first, but I hope to see it ultimately.

  • 1. It’s a cliché, but nevertheless highly accurate, to say “talk is cheap”

    2. Some years ago I observed something that seems reliable: self-professed believers who talk the most about their beliefs, very often are not very good at actually putting them into action; and self-professed believers who talk the least, are often the ones who are best at those behaviors–while, at the same time, downplaying their actions.

    3. Not surprisingly, I agree with everything you write. Though I don’t understand what you are referring to with your use of “monoculture”.

  • Not sure what you mean by “genetically dominant”?
    Off topic but somewhat relevant……………..I know of many White people who were born in S. Africa, but now currently are citizens of the US. No one never, ever, ever, ever calls them “African American”.
    African is “black” and always has and always will be.
    “American” was White. WAS. Now………….any race can be American.
    Just as in Europe. They are calling black men with an Irish driver’s license — “Irish.”
    Just more evidence of the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan for White Genocide real.
    Ever notice too that no mixed race individual ever promotes their White side? Take James Blake — professional tennis player. He is half-white/half -black but is always speaking out for “black” interests. Ironically…………he has a child with a white woman so his child is only 25% black; but he cares more about protecting black interests than he does his mother’s.

  • Stephen…………

    You are on the Broad Road.

    “We may well tremble and be afraid, if our religion is that of the multitude. If we can say no more than this, that “we go where others go, and worship where others worship, and hope we shall do as well as others at last,” we are literally pronouncing our own condemnation. What is this but being in the “broad way?” What is this but being in the road whose end is “destruction?” Our religion at present is not saving religion.” J.C. Ryle

  • My experience FWIW is that churches tend to be, if not become, full of alike-minded and alike-behaved people–the ones who want to get along and so they rub off their rough edges. The ones who can’t fit in gradually leave, and the people who remain are fairly similar. Similar tastes in music, in art, in entertainment, in family styles. They get along–and they don’t have people hanging around who differ or who provoke or who challenge.

    That’s what I mean.

    There is literally nothing wrong with that, but to my own mind I like more variety. I like a little excitement and diversity and interest. I think people are some of the most fascinating things on this planet, and I enjoy meeting nearly every type.

    Hope things are well with you. Pleasure talking with you.

  • Conveniently, Puzzled, and so many others, always seem to leave out the jew’s role in Slavery and the Opium Wars.
    ‘Cohen’cedence? I think not.

  • I did find this great quote, however:

    Examine your own hearts. Do you see there any habit or custom which you know is wrong in the sight of God? If you do, don’t delay for a moment in attacking it. Resolve at once to lay it aside. Nothing darkens the eyes of the mind so much, and deadens the conscience so surely, as an allowed sin. It may be a little one, but it is not any less dangerous.

    It’s by J.C. Ryle as well.

    Cheers

  • My knowledge of behavior tells me your experience is probably very common.

    I agree entirely, enthusiastically, with everything you said in para 3.

    Yes, indeed, a pleasure talking with you, and I look forward to future interactions. (You might find some of my conversations on this page–Mormon political control of Utah may be slipping, election shows –of some interest. )

  • Huh.

    You assert I cannot understand, and now you are…attempting to tell me things you know I cannot understand?

    If your belief that only “White” people can understand, and that I’m not “White” (and by your logic, never can be), then what purpose does it serve for you to shout out unintelligible words?

    Surely your plan of evangelism is better than this.

  • You are deceived and cannot see.
    Last hint — Where did Cain get his wife?
    It is a rhetorical question. “Think” very hard over the answer to yourself.

  • Speaking of which — Please explain to me how the 14 words are Racist?
    I have a feeling you don’t object to China’s desire to remain Chinese?

  • Here’s a thought from a older white guy. Please keep reading.

    What I hear in the article is, how I get past the frustration of not being very successful. Maybe that’s just me but if not try this and see if it works. Find a white evangelical tell him or her you are with the black church and you need their input into a problem. State this problem. For the most black Christians see white evangelicals as racist or supporters of racism. Ask this question. What is something they don’t know about you that would make them think that way about you.

    Sometimes when, you, hear their story they will be cured. Sometimes when you hear their story you’ll know they’ll probably never be cured. Sometimes you will hear them tell you what you, want to tell them, they need to work on. Every time you do this you will learn something. Hang in there.

  • Let’s test Howard Kay’s claim here that “black evangelicals have a very different take-away from their beliefs than white evangelicals.”

    Okeydokey there, Howdy Howie, compare for us the “very different take-away from” the following universal gospel truth between “black evangelicals” and “white evangelicals”:

    The ransoming Fatherly love of God through the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of His own beloved Son, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel and the savior of the rest of the world.

    (1) On the one hand, this, according to you, is the “very different take-away from [that for] white evangelicals”: ____________________________

    (2) On the other hand, this, according to you, is the “very different take-away from [that for] black evangelicals”: ____________________________

    Prove your point by FILLING IN THE BLANKS, ‘YO.

  • By which, in light of those excerpts from State House News Service & BuzzFeed, you mean to say, “[Now not so] sure, [The Dems of Thieves] are all about the values of diversity, recognizing white privilege and fighting racism. [Not] /s”.

    WELL DONE.

  • It is you who don’t know your bible. For my powerfully debunking and highly relevant quote number “(3) Ephesians 4:17, 31” – telling you, yes, you, Howie, that “you walk … just as the Gentiles also walk, in … BITTERNESS and wrath and anger and clamor and slander” – is consistent, and in context, with this entire passage:

    “17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. 20 But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. 25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. 26 Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity. 28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. 29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all BITTERNESS and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”

  • And there we have it. The Confession of a Narcissist.

    According to Oxford University Dictionary, “narcissist [means] a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves.”

  • The most obvious differences are in how they vote, views on racism, and related matters.

    Beyond that, I’m not gonna waste time with this. I’ve read about these differences from highly respectable sources. See, for example, the new book by John Fea, BELIEVE ME, or some of the stuff he’s written–some of which is available right here on Religionnews.

    And I’ve been told that by other evangelical SCHOLARS–academics at evangelical colleges with whom I’ve exchanged emails. They also point out that there are dedicated evangelicals who reject a lot of the facts they point out, such as the nonsense about the US being founded as a “Christian nation”.

  • SO THIS IS WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE. O me O my, I get it now. So do God & Jesus.

    “stephen matlock … 23 days ago … 16 days ago … Y’all know I’m a full-fledged Evangelical. … My people disgust me. … I’ve written off nearly all my church friends … Not a single one of them is redeemable.”

    ‘NUFF SAID.

  • I don’t think you have done nearly enough research on me, and you have not yet brought out everything.

    I think one of the things most freeing to me is the absolute grace of God. I’m freed from shame and from guilt, and set on a path to love and be loved.

    Everything I’ve said I’ve said, and I own all my words.

    I have no shame over my past because it has all been redeemed and covered, and yet not forgotten, not at all, because the past has no hold on me and I have no shame that holds me back.

    Find what you will. Check my website where I talk about my journey, the books I read, the movies I see, the people I encounter. All online, for free. I believe my archives go back to about 2006 or so.

    Check out my social media posts which go back to 2004 or so. I’m not really sure as I don’t check often, and that far back, who remembers.

    Everything is there for you to read and discover if you want, and if you don’t want to, that’s fine.

    I have no secrets, and I have no guilt, and I have no shame.

    I have, as they say, been washed in the blood of the Lamb, and I am free.

    I do have regrets in life. I regret that I did not embrace life, that I did not accept love and give love, that I did not throw myself into the utter love of God far, far earlier. I regret the cramped life I had and the narrow, sheltered life, and the choice of friends and churches that kept me safe from adventure and risk.

    It is all washed away and all covered and all being healed.

    Feel free to explore and dive into my life, and feel free to uncover things you think might shame me, and feel free to dredge them out here.

    I have absolutely nothing to fear because I am absolutely clear with my Lord. Any sins I have committed I am repenting from, and any restoration for my sins I am working on.

    Fire away. Dig. Plan.

    I really and truly do not care. The devil himself has nothing to hold against me. What do I fear from a brother in Christ?

  • Your words have judged you, as so have these words of the epistle:

    1 John 4:20 – “If [stephen matlock ever] says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his [white evangelical] brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.”

    There is No Happy Ending here. In your Return to the Vomit.

    AW SNAP.

  • My sins are all open to you, and you can examine my life at your leisure.

    I would think it would be dull and uninteresting to focus on me, but if you do decide to do so, you have many tools at your disposal.

    I hope you realize that while I appreciate your diligence in attempting to shame me, it really doesn’t work on me.

  • White, *and* Black, *and* Latino, *and* Asian. And all the *rest* of the people-groups. That’s what I’m talking about.

    To assume that only ONE of those groups — the whites — is capable of and/or guilty of the sin of racism, is a purely, patently wrong assumption. Not one group can boast any kind of natural immunity from the sin of racism. Christians need to say that fact. Black folks need to say that fact Out loud.

    Of course, if you DO say such things out loud, you might create “frictions”, yes? (Ain’t nothing quite like criticizing BLM in a secular forum where some folks support BLM. I love it.) So let’s pour some gas on the fire. See next post.

  • “There are times that I believe that we, as African-Americans, can be hypocritical, and that is to not look ourselves in the mirror when we are saying certain things and blaming other groups for one thing when we are doing the exact same thing.”

    “The worst racism that I have received (as a biracial woman married to white man), and I mean thousands and thousands over the years, is from black people, who in my mind thought would be the most accepting because there has been that experience.”

    “But even as recent as the last couple of weeks, the words that I have had thrown at me I can’t repeat here and it’s 99 percent from people with my skin color. But if a white person said those words to me, what would happen?”

    — ESPN reporter Sage Steele, quoted in The Daily Wire (02-21-2017) and also BlackAmericaweb.

    (And by the way, THAT is partially what’s wrong with all that Kneeling Mess. The kneeling folks say, in part, that they do this media tactic to fight racism — but obviously they don’t mean the racism from THEIR OWN side!!)

  • I’m afraid I can’t make heads or tails of your comment, which seems to be far afield from the original post of “how can we talk about racism w/o becoming bitter.” It seems to me that when are talking about people kneeling and the value of black lives that we are simply in the territory of dispute that’s more politically motivated than oriented to charity and healing.
    All the best to you!

  • No, actually, that’s God & Jesus’ jobs “to SHAME [stephen matlock, and which, trust me] really … work on [stephen matlock].” Watch & learn:

    (1) 1 Corinthians 1:27 – “God has chosen the foolish things of the world to SHAME [stephen matlock] the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to SHAME [stephen matlock’s] things which are strong”!

    (2) Philippians 3:18-19 – “Many walk … [being] enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their SHAME, who set their minds on earthly things”!

    (3) 1 Peter 3:16 – “In the thing in which [born-from-above, fired-up and die-hard followers of THE Christ Jesus of the gospels, epistles and revelation] are slandered, [stephen matlock] who revile [their] good behavior in Christ will be put to SHAME”!

    (4) Revelation 3:18 – “The SHAME of … nakedness will … be revealed”!

    (5) Revelation 16:15 – “Behold, I [THE Christ Jesus of the gospels, epistles and revelation] am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his SHAME”!

  • How interesting how much you attempt to use shame and guilt on the redeemed.
    By “how interesting” of course I mean “how uninteresting.”

    A free man is not tempted by chains, and a forgiven man is not tempted by shame.
    Cheers.

  • Many people, on all sides, are already wounded and bitter.

    Healing will NOT come from Kneeling Protests, because it publicly points the finger toward somebody else, WITHOUT publicly acknowledging that one’s own side has the same problem, the same sin, the same mess.

    But I appreciate the dialogue. All the nest to you too!

  • “politicians — in this case, Republicans — who traffic in racism and xenophobia on the other.”

    Republicans? Some Republicans? All Republicans? The Republicans that you decide are unacceptable? Which Republicans do you mean?

    I split my ticket, voting for some Republicans, some Democrats, and some Libertarians.

    Which of these do you condemn me for?

  • OMG! Wait, you didn’t really just use a variant of the “I’m a good person because sometimes I try to do good” defense, did you? Rolling my eyes ..

  • So you’re not “just curious!” If you’re asking because you also seek “help,” why do you lie and claim you’re asking only to assuage curiosity?

  • Floyd seems stuckin a junior high school mode of thinking. Why else would he consider what noone past the 7th grade believes at all. Floyd sweetie, noone assumes whites are the only racists. It fits into your narrative that some do of course, but cry yourself a river, build a bridge, and get over that one because I order you to retire such a foolish thought. If nothing else, please keep it to yourself so as not to remove all doubt about your level of foolishness.

  • “Must” speak the truth? Why “must?” Um, you are in fact being untruthful when you state that Christians “must” be truthful!

  • “We??” HpO is demonstratively far too afraid to stand on her own two feet by stating “I,” so she hides behind “we.” Ain’t no “we” sweetie, only “you” sitting there, clearly quite confused.

  • Then cut your losses. Reasoning with someone like HpO whose reasoning abilities are so broken, is an effort in futility.

  • Cruella Deville is neither a “he” nor a “Christian”, ‘Yo(yo)!

    How’s your Toothing now? Which puts you in which age group, again?

  • “c.o.n.f.u.s.e.d.”, you say?

    cautious?
    outwitting?
    nullifying?
    fervent?
    unnerving?
    scrutinizing?
    earnest?
    decisive?

    Correct!

  • You support some of the most wicked men on the planet, with an affinity for the most vile, disgusting, blasphemous animal of them all, childishly rambling incoherence trying to justify it using Christ! You are the hyena of these forums. You are the Religious that Christ called “vipers” – rambling scriptures trying to justify evil.

    You are mentally tormented and terrified, with a desperate need to be lead. Your mind has been turned into goo by your religious and political leaders …and b/c you reject truth, you live in delusion, just as the bible says… a direct enemy of truth/god.

  • TRUE OR FALSE: “The bible says… a direct enemy of truth/god.”

    FALSE: Because you’re nothing but a Toothing 2nd Grader, you don’t know your “bible” – HA-HA. The phrase, “a direct enemy of truth/god”, is not in “the bible”. But these 2, though not in those words, do appear in the following passages – “enemy of all righteousness” and “an enemy of God”:

    (1) Acts 13:8-11 – “Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on … Elymas the magician … and said, ‘You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord? Now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and not see the sun for a time.’ And immediately a mist and a darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking those who would lead him by the hand.”

    (2) James 4:4 – “Whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.”

  • As I said… incoherent, rambling hyena… and yes, a severely delusional, politicized Religious, useless direct enemy of truth/God. Hopefully you don’t drive… or breed!

  • CORRECTION: “Translation [of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-17 is not that] when you choose to wallow in lies, having pleasure in them, you become delusional and psychotic” – but rather entails all the following gospel truths. And – got paper & pencil with you? – they are:

    (1) You, yes, you, Toothing, must “not be quickly shaken … by [false claims] that the day of the Lord Jesus has come” (verse 2).

    (2) You, yes, you, Toothing, must always go by the times of prophecy according to your apostle Paul that say, Before Jesus returns, “apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God” (verses 3-5).

    (3) The question for you, yes, you, Toothing, now is: Hasn’t God “called you through [your apostle Paul’s] gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ” (verse 14)? Did [you] not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved” (verse 11)? Is it now your testimony that “God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth” (verse 13)? Do you now “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from [your apostle Paul]” (verse 15)?

    (4) No, of course, has been your answer all along to that 4-part question from your apostle Paul. Well, then, “for this reason God will send upon [people like you, yes, you, Toothing] a deluding influence so that [you and] they will believe what is false, in order that [you and] they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness” (verses 11-12)!

  • The Lord Jesus Christ is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah, via his mother the Blessed Virgin Mary, who was of the lineage of David (Psalm 132:11; Luke 1:32). King David is described as “ruddy” in 1 Samuel 16:12, & 1 Samuel 17:42. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ruddy

    Modern Jewry DOES NOT descend from the Biblical 12 Tribes of Israel. Contemporary Jewish sources admit that Modern Jewry is primarily descended from Edomites who were forcibly converted to Judaism by the Hasmonean leader Johanan Hyrcanus in 130BC, as recorded by historian Flavius Josephus. The Greek Geographer, philosopher and historian Strabo, also testified to the colonisation of Judea by Edomite converts to Judaism. Note: The Greeks and Romans referred to the Edomites as Idumeans].

    FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS: “Antiquities of the Jews” Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1.
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1
    Hyrcanus took also Dora, and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would circumcise their genitals, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision, and of the rest of the Jewish ways of living; at which time therefore this befel them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.

    STRABO: “Geography” Book 16 Chapter 2 Section 34.
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Strab.+16.2.34&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0239
    The western extremities of Judæa towards Casius are occupied by Idumæans, and by the lake [Sirbonis]. The Idumæans are Nabatæans. When driven from their country by sedition, they passed over to the Jews, and adopted their customs.

    In Jewish Virtual Library, under the heading, Johanan [John] Hyrcanus, it states: “On the southern front he forced Judah’s neighbors in Idumea [descendents of the Edomites] to accept Judaism.https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/johanan-john-hyrcanus

    Given the absorption into Judea of Edomite converts to Judaism, it begins to make more sense that the Apostle John spoke of impostors [Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9] who “SAY THEY ARE JEWS, AND ARE NOT” labelling them the “SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN.” Romans 9:13 “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but ESAU HAVE I HATED.” Genesis 36:9 “And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:” The complete extermination of ESAU’S EDOMITE OFFSPRING, [which Modern Jewry descends from] is foretold in Obadiah 1:9, Obadiah 1:18.

  • You write that quote, “no one assumes whites are the only racists.” That’s not true at all, for example, I can point to a plethora of articles written by left leaning media websites that insist that white people can’t be victims of racism, and that it is impossible to be racist to a white person, e.g Check out the title of the following article by VICE.

    Dear White People, Please Stop Pretending Reverse Racism Is Real. It’s literally impossible to be racist to a white person. https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/kwzjvz/dear-white-people-please-stop-pretending-reverse-racism-is-real

  • The Lord Jesus Christ is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah, via his mother the Blessed Virgin Mary, who was of the lineage of David (Psalm 132:11; Luke 1:32). King David is described as “ruddy” in 1 Samuel 16:12, & 1 Samuel 17:42. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ruddy

    Modern Jewry DOES NOT descend from the Biblical 12 Tribes of Israel. Contemporary Jewish sources admit that Modern Jewry is primarily descended from Edomites [referred to as Idumeans by the Greeks and Romans] who were forcibly converted to Judaism by the Hasmonean leader Johanan Hyrcanus in 130BC, as recorded by historian Flavius Josephus. The Greek Geographer, philosopher and historian Strabo, also testified to the colonization of Judea by Edomite converts to Judaism.

    FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS: “Antiquities of the Jews” Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1.
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1
    Hyrcanus took also Dora, and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would circumcise their genitals, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision, and of the rest of the Jewish ways of living; at which time therefore this befel them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.

    STRABO: “Geography” Book 16 Chapter 2 Section 34.
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Strab.+16.2.34&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0239
    The western extremities of Judæa towards Casius are occupied by Idumæans, and by the lake [Sirbonis]. The Idumæans are Nabatæans. When driven from their country by sedition, they passed over to the Jews, and adopted their customs.

    In Jewish Virtual Library, under the heading, Johanan [John] Hyrcanus, it states: “On the southern front he forced Judah’s neighbors in Idumea [descendents of the Edomites] to accept Judaism.https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/johanan-john-hyrcanus

    Given the absorption into Judea of Edomite converts to Judaism, it begins to make more sense that the Apostle John spoke of impostors [Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9] who “SAY THEY ARE JEWS, AND ARE NOT” labelling them the “SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN.” Romans 9:13 “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but ESAU HAVE I HATED.” Genesis 36:9 “And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:” The complete extermination of ESAU’S EDOMITE OFFSPRING, [which Modern Jewry descends from] is foretold in Obadiah 1:9, Obadiah 1:18.

  • It takes twisted psychotics like you to support this evil trash. Just didn’t realize there were so many of you pu**ygrabbers…

  • You write that quote, “no one assumes whites are the only racists.” That’s not true at all, for example, I can point to a plethora of articles written by left leaning media websites that insist that white people can’t be victims of racism, and that it is impossible to be racist to a white person, e.g Check out the title of the following article by VICE.

    Dear White People, Please Stop Pretending Reverse Racism Is Real. It’s literally impossible to be racist to a white person. https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/kwzjvz/dear-white-people-please-stop-pretending-reverse-racism-is-real

  • Wanna know what’s & who’s really eternally “twisted”? The following idea of “using Jesus Christ as cover”! It’s your hypnotic, self-unhinging, trigger code-words, if memory serves.

    Let me pull up your Chart there for you, Toothing. Oh here we are; let’s read them together, shall we? On my cue, and a 1, and a 2 …

    “Truthin 2 months ago … Real Evil … [are] those that for centuries have used JsusChrst for cover as they go around the world slaughtering ‘savages/terrorists’ taking their resources. … Death mongering bankers … [are] using JesusChrst as cover!”

    “Truthin a month ago … The US … death mongering mfers … [and] savage bastards are drowning in the blood of the innocent, while using JsusChrst for cover! … The Pentagon … [is] drowning in the blood of the innocent, while using JsusChrst for cover! … US Senators are drowning in the blood of the innocent, while using JsusChrst for cover.”

    “Truthin 21 days ago … Evil bastards and their allies using Sops, secret services and intelligence agencies – CIA, MI6, DGSE, Mossad, etc … [are all] using Christ for cover!”

    QUESTION: Who has brainwashed & indoctrinated you into this eternally “twisted” idea of “using Jesus Christ as cover”? Don’t tell me it’s Chris Hedges and/or the bible. I demand citations, otherwise, by book titles & pages, and/or chapters & verses. No can do, you say? I thought so, too.

  • Meh. I’ve heard that religious trash talk from my German pals all my life.

    I don’t go for the anti-semitic conspiracies, so you can just hold off. Should you respond to me further, I will choose to block you entirely.

    I don’t deal with anti-semites. Period.

  • The following bible verses demonstrate the value that the Lord God places in the life of unborn child growing in the womb. they clearly show that the Lord God considers an unborn child in the womb to be equal in value and humanity to one that is born, therefore, aborting a child while it is still in the womb, equates to eliminating a life that the Lord God values and nurtures.

    God knows the pre-born child. e.g. Psalm 22:10 “I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother’s womb You have been My God.

    God knows the pre-born child. e.g. Psalm 139:13-15 “For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.”

    God also helps and calls the pre-born child. e.g. Galatians 1:15 “But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,”

  • The scriptures open you up like a sardine can. You ARE what Christ called a ‘Viper’. He says it would be better if you were drowned. Antichrist thangs like YOU who pathetically try to use Christ for cover while supporting this satanic trash are the reason they will continue until they finish the country. You have been mentally trashed by your political and religious ‘leaders’ – a useless reprobate. You are demonic in your support for these evil bastards, while using Christ for cover…

  • I’m sorry, but I don’t see how the verses you cite illustrate the value god places on the life of the fetus (the medically correct term).

    And in the interests of a comprehensive, useful discussion, are there any verses you are aware of in the bible that would be in disagreement with the verses you cited?

    And do you accept every verse in the bible as correct, from God, etc., or are there any you ignore or question?

  • You are apparently unfamiliar with BLM writings (pre-sanitized or post-sanitized). You haven’t listened at all when BLM supporters do TV or online interviews.

    Probably you haven’t spent one hour reading black-owned newspapers to see what black voices say outside of the milieu of white-owned newspapers, and you certainly never visited libraries for that one purpose.

    Plus you have great difficulty responding to the actual points offered in people’s posts. Does that cover it?

  • A propos your quoting of several bible verses, here is one of many verses in the bible regarding what people with any wealth should do:

    Luke 18:22 : : sell all that you own, distribute the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.

    Have you honored that verse? If not, why not?

  • C’mon Mark, you owe me FREE MONEY, a good 20-Grand every year for life, I don’t even have to work for it, merely because I came from slave ancestors.

    Or at least that’s what BLM said before they polished up their website for mixed company.

    “BLM said it, I believe it, that settles it!”

  • Oh right, oops, you’re a Toothing 2nd Grader. Gotta simplify. Alright, let’s take it slow:

    That. Idea. Of. Yours. Of. “Using”. “Jesus”. “Christ”. “As”. “Cover”.

    Where. Did. You. Steal. That. Idea. From?

    Where. From. Chris. Hedges’. Writings?

    And. /. Or. Where. From. The. Bible?

  • Very good. I just added “Imo,” and “essentially,” thus making my comment correct since it’s my opinion. Indeed, Tarim, extremely troubled individuals can make an invalid case that whitey does not face racism, perhaps right after they explain that the world is flat, ay?

  • “One??” Which one? Seems this commenter is too afraid to stand on his own two feet by stating the simple truth, “‘I’ tire of the nonsense,” so he hides behind stating “one.”

  • Hey, Fritters, I know you’re tone-deaf and can’t sing, but that’s a line from a Miles Davis’ recording, plus The Beatles’, and rock concert albums.

  • I hope you’ll respond to my questions, “TarimBasin”. They are direct questions which should be easy to answer, and your responses will further our discussion.

  • Indeed it may very well be a line from a Miles Davis recording, plus The Beatles’, and rock concert albums. Miles WAS cool. So were the Beatles. Tell us sweet cheeks, you’re not in a studio or on stage like they were when they said that to other musicians, so why do you on the other hand go twerpy little dork on us by using that line from a Miles Davis’ recording, plus The Beatles’, and rock concert albums so immaturely??

  • And again, here you are being such a little twerp. You know, noone’a forcing you to be so immature. Why don’t YOU stop behaving like a child??

  • Mark posted a link because he wants me to read it. I didn’t. Mark, once again, instead of being so passive aggressively wimpy by stating “I would read this” why don’t you state “I would like you to read this” or “Please read this?

  • On record: “FHRITP 3 months ago … I’m a remarkable, open minded, globetrotting, reconnaissance man. … I’m arrogant AND superior … I AM far superior”.

    NOW THAT, Fritters, is very “mature” of you! 2nd to none. (Except maybe The Toothing 2nd Grader, who goes accusing all powers-that-be of “using Jesus Christ as cover”.)

  • On record: “FHRITP 3 months ago … I’m a remarkable, open minded, globetrotting, reconnaissance man. … I’m arrogant AND superior … I AM far superior”.

    NOW THAT, Fritters, is very “adult” of you! 2nd to none. (Except maybe The Toothing 2nd Grader, who goes accusing all powers-that-be of “using Jesus Christ as cover”.)

  • Supporting Donald-pu**ygrabbin- Tramp while claiming to be a Christian is ‘using Christ for cover’. Pushing death across the planet at a vicious pace for corporate pimps while claiming to be a ‘Christian nation’ is ‘using Christ for cover’. Got it now?

    https://theintercept.com/2016/07/13/training/

    https://100r.org/2016/07/training-the-planet/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUtumGk0E6Q&t=170s

    http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176457/tomgram%3A_william_hartung%2C_gunrunning_usa/#more

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN6InTMWt7Q&t=65s

  • You do realize the country is based on systemic racial discrimination right? I mean you don’t really believe in this all sides do it jazz?

  • What does left leaning media have to do with actual racist policy, supported by evangelicals ?

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