Why stay? A new book looks at feminists who refuse to give up on faith

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"Faithfully Feminist"  a soon-to-be-released book from White Cloud Press contains essays by 45 women -- Christian, Jewish and Muslim -- on the conflict within their own lives between their feminism and their religion. Photo courtesy Christy Collins.

"Faithfully Feminist" a soon-to-be-released book from White Cloud Press contains essays by 45 women -- Christian, Jewish and Muslim -- on the conflict within their own lives between their feminism and their religion. Photo courtesy Christy Collins.

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(RNS) The question each of the 45 authors agreed to ponder: “Why do you stay?”

  • Bernardo

    Bred, Born and Brainwashed in their religion is why most of them stay.

  • Greg1

    These feminists should pool their influence together and condemn Planned Parenthood. A third video came out today from the same Pro-Life group, showing PP’s gruesome, despicable practices, removing organs from babies, selling them, and then laughing about the whole thing. They are barbaric, and they need to be defunded. PP even went to a Judge in attempt to block the Pro-Life group’s additional videos from coming out: ouch! the truth hurts! Hopefully this will be overturned quickly, and their 9 additional videos will come out. Let’s get on board feminists; time to embrace your true feminism; motherhood is being destroyed by our press, and these types of groups.

  • Heather

    As a Muslim feminist, I agree completely Richard.

  • Como diz uma frase do artigo: Eles não nasceram de uma mulher?
    Do que será que os homens tem medo?
    Homens e Mulheres possuem as suas diferenças, e isto deve ser usado para somar e não para transformar-se em guerra.
    Caminhemos lado a lado!

  • Susan

    “motherhood is being destroyed by our press, and these types of groups.”

    Huh? So any group that helps women decide if and when they want to be pregnant is destroying motherhood? I think it does the exact opposite. It should be the women’s choice when and if to become a mother. It is better for her and her family.

    The traditional Jewish prayerbook uses only male images for God. That used to be a problem for me, but now I change the words myself or change the images in my head.

    Their focus is on becoming better human beings and being transformed by the word of God, not clamor for power within the church.”

    Shouldn’t that be what all human beings should focus on? It is the fact that women are told that they are not capable of holding power within the church that is the problem. It also seems to be disingenuous and designed to keep women in their place.

  • Susan

    New York, N.Y. – July 30, 2015 –The Central Conference of American Rabbis (CCAR), the official rabbinic leadership organization of the Reform Judaism Movement, strongly condemns the recently falsehood-laden media campaign to discredit Planned Parenthood and expresses even stronger disapproval of members of Congress seizing this manufactured moment as an excuse to eliminate federal funding for critical women’s health care. CCAR calls on its thousands of members, the American Jewish community, and the broader American public to call Congress and to speak out publicly and on social media to show their support for women’s health and for Planned Parenthood.

    “Reform Rabbis have long been a leading religious voice for reproductive justice,” said Rabbi Steve Fox. “We believe in affirming the autonomy of every human being, as they were created in God’s image, and we believe women must be trusted to control their bodies and plan their families in consultation with the doctor of their…

  • Greg1

    God the Father is Spirit; He has no sex as we know it. However, God has revealed himself as Father, mainly because we could understand that image. In heaven, there will be no husbands, wives, or children, other than our previous relationships on earth; instead all will be like the angels, just riveted by the Love of God, and sharing that love with one another. I know you are Jewish, so showing you NT Scripture that would be a waste, but there is an earthly order, and a heavenly order, but the two are very different. On earth is where we earn our reward of heaven, by accepting the Plan of God, and acting it out in a godly manner, in the way He has communicated it to us. And that Plan ultimately is to use the natural life that God gave us to produce more souls for heaven, raise those souls in a godly environment, and effectively bring heaven to earth during our time on earth. And pray every day as if you were already in heaven. We should be walking and talking with God 24/7.

  • Greg1

    The reformed rabbis might have a very different view soon. The group in cahoots with Planned Parenthood, StemExpress, has gone to court to stop these videos from coming out, and a judge granted an injunction. One has to wonder why that is, if they are such a good organization. A third video just came out, and it is just despicable. These so called doctors are laughing about the dead babies, giggling as if these little souls deserved to die. The third video is a wake up call. The Pro-Life group that released the video, has 9 more full footage videos to post, once past the court injunction. It is one thing siding with the good that PP has to offer, but it is eternally treacherous to believe that the destruction of almost 60 million babies is a societal good. To me, that is the Devil at work, and we need to defund the work he influences.

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  • Greg1

    And I think what is unique and nice about the Catholic Faith, which was begun by the Apostles themselves, is that we get a glimpse into the mind of God. Almighty God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19), has revealed that those who are baptized, become part of the “body of Christ” (1Cor 12:12,27), i.e., joined to the Trinity, and the body is the “Church” (Col 1:18), and the Church is the “bride” (Eph 5:29-32; Rev 21:9), and Jesus is the “groom” (Lk 5:34), and then the bride and groom become “one flesh” (Matt 19:16), and their marriage is “inseparable” (Matt 19:9), then that would make Mary, our Lord’s mother, our eternal mother-in-law! So we all have a mother in heaven, who God has given to us. So, God has extended to Mary the spiritual mother of all the baptized, and the queen of heaven by default (Rev 12:1).

  • Susan

    Greg1, Of course I know that God is not really male or female. Jesus is obviously male.

    So if I’m not married and don’t have children or if I’m married and don’t have children, I am not fulfilling God’s plan, because God needs us to fill up heaven for him?

    Whether or not the Catholic faith offers a glimpse into the mind of God is a matter of opinion. I’ve never had the trinity explained to me in a way that makes sense to me. You are so sure that you have the only truth. To me God is both male and female and beyond both. I don’t need Mary or Jesus.

  • Susan

    “God has revealed himself as Father, mainly because we could understand that image.”

    Well, that’s true for most people, but what about people who were sexually or physically abused by their father? What about people whose father abandoned them? I am not speaking personally here, but do they conceive of God the father as a helpful image?

  • Larry

    Why would feminists come together to attack an organization which promotes their agency and responsibility for their lives?

    The anti-abortion crowd always pretends women don’t really exist or their thoughts are completely irrelevant. Women are simply baby making receptacles to that crowd. Where is the feminist perspective there?

    These hoax “gotcha” videos aren’t doing anything to change opinions of Planned Parenthood. But they are a great demonstration as to how far the anti-abortion crowd is willing to lie and engage in defamation in order to support their cause.

    ” the truth hurts!”

    Obviously not. After repeated lies by the anti-abortion hoaxsters have been exposed, they simply continue as if nothing happened.

    “motherhood is being destroyed by our press”

    Because motherhood that isn’t on your terms, should never exist.

  • Larry

    “It is the fact that women are told that they are not capable of holding power within the church that is the problem. ”

    In addition, women are told they are not capable of making decisions concerning their own bodies by the same people. These are people with no regard for the lives of women beyond their own purpose.

  • Greg1

    Susan wrote,”[if] I’m not married and don’t have children or if I’m married and don’t have children, I am not fulfilling God’s plan…” No not at all. All souls work together to get to heaven, but each individually in various ways. In other words, some are mothers and fathers, raising godly families. Some are teachers; some only pray for others. We all fit into God’s Plan in diverse and various ways, but ultimately, all is oriented towards souls and their final destiny of heaven. For example I try to pray each day for everyone on this website, that they be given mercy at the moment of their earthly death. God knows I am praying for that end, and will act accordingly in His own time. On the flip side of the coin, many thwart the Plan of God, and work against His will. That is very bad. Many in that camp work together as well, but towards the destruction of the God’s Plan. But regardless of it all, focus on self, is vanity, and will lead a person away from God (Ecclesiastes 1).

  • Greg1

    These people have been hurt by men, and have a mental aversion to male figures. That is understandable, but God the Father is the ultimate Father, who many men model their lives after, but others sadly fall way short of the mark. With those people, only forgiveness will heal the scar, much like the black church members in Charleston SC who had their family members mowed down. That is the example to consider.

  • Mary Pat

    It is not power for ourselves we desire. We wish our church to be made whole by giving power to the feminine voice in determining church teachings.

  • Rebekah

    I’ve been very Lutheran and very feminist for 25 years. It’s entirely possible for faith and feminism to coexist. Many of the most faithful women I know are ones who also speak out for gender equality within their faith.

    Conceptually, feminism didn’t exist in Biblical times. So, no, Ruth and Esther and all the rest of the strong Biblical women were not feminist. This does not mean, however, that faith and feminism are not compatible now. (One could perhaps make an argument that some Biblical women show protofeminism.)

  • Greg1

    Larry, you have no Faith, so no reason to comment on an article expressing women of Faith, who struggle with balancing the world on one hand, and their Faith on the other. They actually believe in God, so their struggle is the constant pressure from the world to toss their Faith, and embrace the world. But any woman who loves God Almighty, cannot condone the horrors recently revealed by the renegade men and women who work at that PP abortion mill, removing organs before the baby is even expired. It is the equivalent of watching someone you trust, betray you in a dreadful way, but in the worst dreadful way. That organization needs to be defunded, and these women of Faith should lead the charge; women need to take charge of this issue, rather than be controlled by the Left who dictates what they should agree with and what not to agree with. That brainwashing needs to end.

  • Greg1

    Larry, the Catholic Church has held women in the highest of esteem since its inception. The Church departed from the Jewish minimization of women, and gave them the dignity of being children of God long before your secular world ever considered it. The issue is that you confuse power, with order. God has an order, and within it, the men have one set of responsibilities, and the women have others. Just as our bodies are different, the order God has established is different. There is no power, as you state, but only placement. Better to be little in God’s eyes, than powerful and puffed up with pride as in your eyes. Both men and women are at the mercy of God come Judgment time, and each will be rewarded for their humbleness in this life.

  • Pr Chris

    Planned Parenthood is being attacked by essentially the same crew that went after ACORN a couple of elections ago, and then went for Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana by hacking her phone system. The videos they produce are NOT a balanced and true portrayal of PP. Their goal is simply to do whatever it takes to shut them down.
    The problem is that abortions is less than 5% or so of their work. Often, they are the only ob-gyn services in cities. They mostly provide contraceptives, cancer screenings, and the whole range of ob-gyn services. Because insurance for ob-gyns is hugely expensive (one of the most expensive categories to insure among physicians), among other reasons, many are bailing out of the cities and either quitting, or going into upper-class communities to practice their specialty. If you shut down Planned Parenthood, you will be denying many hundreds of thousands of women the information and care they need to remain healthy, and to be their for their kids

    Pr Chris

  • Pr Chris

    Larry, yes the Catholic Church holds women in the highest esteem. They are to be mothers, wives, and if they aren’t married, to become consecrated virgins. Other than that, it is a difficult role for women. They are not able to answer the calls that many have received for ministry (men are automatically given the “right” to have their vocations tested in seminary; women a priori, are considered unable to have such a vocation, no matter what they believe.) Only recently have women been able to study Catholic faith and doctrine (like, since the mid-20th century or so. Until men and women are able to realize their dreams and gifts, and serve wherever they are called, then women are second class in the church.

    Ordain both single and married men and women to the priesthood, and within 10 years, the disastrous shortage of priests…that denies the faithful access to the Sacraments…would be ameliorated. The church gets plenty of vocations, they just reject most of them…

  • Pr Chris

    And a few years ago, we were treated to the anti-ACORN videos…and the group putting them out was sued by some of the people in their “edited” videos. Guess what? They lost the suit because they had so badly doctored their “reporting” that it was false and a total hit job. Guess what? The people putting out these videos have direct links back to this group. James O’Keefe, who was convicted of crimes for some of his actions last time, is friends with several of these new “reporters”. It is very easy to ask a series of questions of people who don’t realize they are on camera, and to edit the final result so that what is shown is the opposite of the truth. Just wait. This group, too, will be found to be doing the same thing. How can you use such unethical methods to produce something which is supposedly an “ethical” issue?

    Pr chris

  • Greg1

    PrChris, Actually I believe the answer is the married priesthood. As far as women priests, well the Church has never done it, so it must be something that was mandated by the Apostles. It was likely designed that way by Almighty God so to reflect the marital bond between Christ and his bride, the Church. Every Catholic priest shares in the priesthood of Christ, so he is an alter Christi, able to act in the Person of Christ when performing the seven sacraments, and other rites of the Church. So if a priest were female, it would look rather silly to be ordained in the image of Christ, awaiting His Bride, the Church, at the end of time. But then these days, the gay thing is placing a twist on that one. Hey, the end must be near.

  • Greg1

    These videos are being put out unedited. And … they are despicable.

  • Kyle

    Agreed minus the Mother Teresa part. There is simply no evidence this woman was a “great Christian missionary”. She insisted on converting no one and was head-over heals for Catholicism. Mother Teresa did not even provide real medical care in her “clinics”.

  • Kyle

    Running the concentration camps was only part of what the Nazis did. They also built public works projects and supported the arts…

  • Susan

    “We all fit into God’s Plan in diverse and various ways, but ultimately, all is oriented towards souls and their final destiny of heaven…”

    I guess we all fit into God’s plans except homosexuals.

    I don’t think that religion is oriented towards the final destiny of heaven. Although, it offends me when people think that Jews won’t go to heaven. I think that religion is about how you live your life on earth and that is just as important as whether you go to heaven or not. When I pray for other people I offer my compassion and blessings for them to find joy and peace. If you do a good deed because it will get you into heaven will that work. I know Christians have been arguing over deeds vs belief for centuries, but the rabbis were just considering that one should do good deeds out of your heart, not out of ulterior motives.

  • Greg1

    Susan, your whole life should be a prayer, oriented to God. St. Augustine once said, “pray always, and if necessary, use words.” As far as salvation, well it is clear in the NT that salvation is from the Jews (John 4:22). So, no, we gentiles are the orphans being grafted onto your vine (Romans 11:22-26). But yes, life on this earth could not be more important; however, the idea is to create a world where we allow heaven and earth to unite, so that when we pass from this life, we don’t skip a beat, but just transition into greater glory. The problem is there are many people in this world who ridicule religion, and do everything to divorce this world from heaven. That is the current condition of many places our world: although well intentioned in their secular belief that we can all live in peace apart from the grace of God, the reality is that it is not possible, and the movie “Ft. Apache, the Bronx,” becomes the ultimate reality of secularism.

  • Greg1

    As for your statement, “I guess we all fit into God’s plans except homosexuals,” I would say that in our day, when homosexuality and gay persons are focusing upon the gay marriage & gay rights, rather than Almighty God, then I would agree with your statement. The thing is, all people are children of God, and all need to live their lives according to God’s will for them. When we subvert His will, and replace it with our own, it is the equivalent of purposefully crashing your boat onto an isolated island and then complaining that nobody comes to save you. When we cooperate with God, regardless of our state of life, then He is pleased. In reality, then, homosexuals are called to the single life, and hopefully ones that are beneficial to society as a whole, and within the context of the Plan of God. If we only knew of the joys of heaven, we’d give up everything in this life just to get there (2Cor 2:9).

  • Mary

    Greg1, you are not a racist (I hope) so you have no right to comment on what racists do or say.

    Don’t you see the flaw in your statements now? You should take them back.

  • Bob

    Greg1, the whole Jesus story that you keep spewing about, the foundation of your crazy superstitions, is actually a steaming pile of nonsense. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Conversely Greg1, your jerk of a sky creature threatens you with torture, according to your sicko bible. You are wimpy enough to bow down and worship such a jerk. I am not. I think it’s high time that you looked at your Christian superstitions more critically.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Stephen

    I doubt Christianity came into it when she let people including children suffer without medicine on the basis that God would heal them. We are God’s hands

  • Wes

    It really doesn’t matter what else they did, considering those heinous camps and other horrors. They should be and are condemned by the modern world.

  • Greg1

    Mary, when did I become a racist? I believe in the protection of the unborn, as they cannot speak for themselves. And I believe true feminism would never stand idly by and watch the barbaric practices of Planned Parenthood. They need to be defunded.
    BTW: I like your name… Whenever I hear the name Mary, I think of the Queen of Heaven, the beautiful one.

  • Greg1

    God on the cross is the ultimate sacrifice, with unlimited, infinite redemptive value. Try talking with Jesus sometime; it might surprise you how He responds back.

  • Greg1

    Let’s see, when I was growing up, I was spanked when I did bad things. I guess that makes my father and mother jerks? Bob, you make very little sense.

  • Stephen

    Greg1, seriously, way to totally totally miss Mary’s point. Sailed wayyyy over your head.

    Look, she’s obviously not calling you a racist. She’s giving you a parallel example of your comment with substitutions, to show why your logic fails.

    Maybe give Mary’s post another read after you get a brain transplant. Holy cow! How thick can you be?

  • Bob

    No, Greg1. Your beliefs are absurd and wrongheaded. It is not possible for the Jesus story to represent sacrifice by an omnipotent being, particularly when such a creature would simply be able to roll back time or instantiate a new identical son with no loss.

    Furthermore, it is ridiculous to think that a god needed any form of sacrifice to do his “saving” task.

    Your entire beliefs are founded on nonsense, and they cause you to be an unrepentant bigot. Do look at your beliefs more critically and sincerely in view of the above, and hopefully get over your ill-founded Christian delusions at last.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Funny again Greg1 that your claimed omnipotent being can be so readily thwarted and countered by mere mortals. That is just one more example of the wrongheadedness and absurdity of your sick, hateful Christian beliefs with your excessively vengeful sky fairy “god”.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Actually, Greg1, your god repeated counsels rape and other awful acts against men and women, according to your bible. It is not a kind creature that you worship, but a very evil, and fortunately, mythical one. Get over your awful Christian delusions already.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Actually, Greg1, your god repeatedly counsels rape and other awful acts against men and women, according to your bible. It is not a kind creature that you worship, but a very evil, and fortunately, mythical one. Get over your awful Christian delusions already.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Greg1, the lack of sense is clearly your own. Think about this. Your god according to your bible threatens eternal torture by burning. That is not a mere “spanking”. It is a horrible human rights abuse, and represents excessive punishment to an extreme degree. Furthermore, your god is stated in your bible to have wiped out whole races for the actions of a smaller group. That is another horrid act ascribed in your horrid holy book to your brutal sky fairy of your Christian tall tales.

    So, Greg1, the fault is yours for kowtowing to such a jerk of a (man-made) deity. Do think the above through for a change, and try to get over your foolish delusions.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Greg1

    Stephen, Larry has said repeatedly that he has no Faith, so I am free to comment on a person who has revealed himself in a very complete way on this website. As for the racist comment, it was tongue in cheek, I don’t see anything in what I wrote that mentioned, or alluded to anything racist. Look up the definition of racism. But I do understand the underlying thought in Mary’s point; however, my point is that women in our country are being brainwashed to believe in things that are anti-woman, and anti-feminism. And I wanted to point that out. Everyone here on this site should shut off the lights, close the door, and ask God to come into their lives and walk with them. And actually, the best way to do that is by dwelling upon the mysteries of Christ in praying the “Rosary.” Eyes will quickly be opened in a short time if that is done. The Rosary is the weapon against evil in our time; that was stated by Pope John Paul II,

  • Greg1

    Bob, if you ever knew how much even the slightest sin offends God Almighty, you’d think there was never a way to atone for it. But God must be true to Himself; He will not just snap his fingers, and say all is fine. God IS also Justice, and that needs to be satisfied; thus Jesus Christ, God on the Cross, the ultimate sacrifice. And actually, God the Father spoke to a nun in the 1930’s (which is very rare in the Church), and communicated in very simple language for the nun, how much He loves us, and cares for us. The text has been approved by the Catholic Church (another rarity), so if you really want to understand God in simple language, then go to this link, and click on The Father’s Message, Books 1 and 2. If not,t hen that is your business.

  • Greg1
  • Susan

    “all need to live their lives according to God’s will for them.”

    We all need to humble when we assume we know God’s will for someone else. Especially when you are limiting their life to a single life. I was in synagogue on Saturday and their were several adults who did not have a Bar or Bat Mitzvah when they were 13 were having an adult Bar or Bat Mitzvah. One of them was a gay man who was married and the couple have an adopted daughter. It seems to me that they were fulfilling God’s plan for them. They were a happy devoted couple who wanted God in their life and in their child’s life.

    This post is supposed to be about feminism. Not giving women equal rights in their church or synagogue or Mosque is not acceptable. There are no good excuses for it.

  • Bob

    Greg1, find some courage for a change, and take a more critical look at your statements and your foolish beliefs.

    It is not possible for the Jesus story to represent sacrifice by an omnipotent being, particularly when such a creature would simply be able to roll back time or instantiate a new identical son with no loss. It is also ridiculous to think that a god needed any form of sacrifice to do his “saving” task. The whole sacrifice gambit was merely stolen by Christianity from earlier blood cults. It’s nothing more than a horrid primitive superstition. Get over it already.

    Your entire beliefs are founded on nonsense. Do look at your beliefs more critically and sincerely in view of the above, and hopefully get over your ill-founded Christian delusions at last.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Greg1, as for the rosary, it is just another sham by your awful god fraud that never delivers on its promises. I’m calling you on that fraud now. There is no verifiable evidence that a prayer has ever been answered by a divine being, ever. If you disagree, then present the verifiable evidence. Good luck with that; no one has ever done so.

    Stop promoting your Christian god fraud about your excessively vengeful sky fairy. It’s disgusting and horrid, and it’s fiction.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Shawnie5

    Way to miss the point, Wes.

  • Wes

    Way to miss the point, Showknee.

  • larry

    Greg1, you are not a woman. You have no business commenting on what they should or should not believe. See how stupid that argument gets. 🙂

    Women of faith have to struggle with a system stacked against them in the majority of situations. Mostly by people like yourself who equate the power of their faith with “tradition” and the notion that women must take an inferior status to men in all positions of real authority.

    I am sure plenty of feminists are able to hold on to their faith, but probably not among reactionaries and fundamentalists like yourself. People who think their opinions are somehow the singular word of God.

    You prefer to propagate pernicious lies in order to deny women the ability to make decisions for themselves and obtain decent healthcare. You are clearly stating your opinion is more important than theirs in all things (since you don’t acknowledge theirs in any way). I can see why feminists would be at odds with your ideas. .

  • larry

    But you don’t consider them capable of making decisions for themselves. They must defer to your authority as to what goes on inside their bodies. You don’t even consider them people. You deny them dignity which is inherent in all people. Claiming your disdain for them is following the “image of God” is merely excuse-making. Self-serving use of scripture to bolster personal feelings.

  • larry

    “How can you use such unethical methods to produce something which is supposedly an “ethical” issue?”

    Because if you are doing it on the Lord’s behalf, anything is permitted. Lying, stealing,…

  • Jack

    Greg, the original feminist movement was pro-life, not pro-choice, because it saw abortion as enabling men to weasel out of the responsibilities to a woman that come from getting her pregnant. The pro-choice movement, including organizations like Planned Parenthood, historically emerged not from feminism but from the mania for population limitations that began in the early 20th century. Its initial push was thinly veiled racism — a big push to promote limiting the population of races or ethnic groups deemed “inferior.” For these people, that meant black people, first and foremost, and so they enlisted black pastors to promote their work.

    Margaret Sanger, PP’s founder, infamously remarked that she wanted humanity to become “a race of thoroughbreds” through policies that encouraged the “fit” to breed, while discouraging the “unfit” from doing the same.

  • Jack

    And the interesting little secret was that, until well into the 1970s, it was the conservatives who often supported abortion while it was the liberals who opposed it.

  • Larry

    People didn’t have to make crap up in order to find stuff to use against the Nazis. Same can’t be said of Planned Parenthood’s opponents, especially the producers of these hit piece videos. Lying comes natural with that crowd.

    If Planned Parenthood was so heinous, why does it require such clear obvious misrepresentations and defamation in order to combat it? Nobody outside of the wingnutsphere was fooled by the last 3 videos.

    There is a reason why Godwin’s law is invoked is because most analogies with Nazis are usually pretty stupid and lazy.

  • Larry

    People didn’t have to make stuff up in order to use against the Nazis. Same can’t be said of Planned Parenthood’s opponents, especially the producers of these hit piece videos.

    If Planned Parenthood was so heinous, why does it require such clear obvious misrepresentations and defamation in order to combat it? Nobody outside of the wingnutsphere was fooled by the last 3 videos.

    There is a reason why Godwin’s law is invoked is because most analogies with Nazis are usually pretty silly and lazy.

  • Larry

    Not really, but its not like you would ever let a widely told defamatory myth go to waste.

    Pretty much the “evidence” used to paint Margret Sanger as a genocidal racist is really poor forms of quote-mining and cheap guilt by association ploys (something you employ on a regular basis)

    “The Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. may have put it best in 1966, when he accepted Planned Parenthood’s prestigious Margaret Sanger Award and spoke eloquently of the “kinship” between the civil rights and family planning movements.
    “…She, like we, saw the horrifying conditions of ghetto life. Like we, she knew that all of society is poisoned by cancerous slums. Like we, she was a direct actionist — a nonviolent resister… She launched a movement which is obeying a higher law to preserve human life under humane conditions. .”

  • Jack

    You added “genocidal” to “racist,” Larry, but I never suggested that Margaret Sanger was genocidal. And King was right that Sanger was disturbed about slums and poverty. And both King and Sanger believed that population growth was a problem. Both were wrong on that issue, but King didn’t go as far as Sanger went. King did not link population limitations with eugenics and survival of the fittest and producing a “race of thoroughbreds” like Sanger did.

  • Jack

    Reform Judaism in America has been mimicking liberal Protestantism for the better part of a century on everything from disbelief in the Mosaic authorship of the first five books of the Bible to a refusal for decades to take Jewish nationhood seriously. It had to be virtually shamed into finally supporting Zionism by the rise of Conservative Judaism in the 20th century.

    When even the vast majority of Jews in Israel who are secular think of American Reform Judaism, they shudder at the failure of its leadership to stand with them against the Iran nuclear deal.

  • Jack

    Actually, “Bob,” you’re the one who needs to find the courage to venture out of your little intellectual ghetto and read all sides. It’s quite obvious that you haven’t.

  • Jack

    Bob, when you describe the God of the Bible as destroying entire nations, you’re talking about the Old Testament, and when you then go on to say it was man-made, you’re accusing the ancestors of the Jewish people of being terrible wretches.

    But if they were so horrible, why have the people of the Bible, the Jews, the ones whose religion has been built around that supposedly terrible collection of books for over three millennia — why is their conduct not only not horrible, but in many ways enviably good compared to others?

    You’re making no sense at all…..based on your canards against the Bible, the Jews should be among the most violent of peoples when in fact they are among the least violent….as Jewish violent crime rates are extraordinarily low.

  • Jack

    So if Bob thinks the idea and beliefs of the Bible are evil, and they conceive of a very evil God, it follows that those who wrote the Bible must have had evil or twisted hearts.

    But that forces Bob to say that the ancestors of the Jewish people were horrible people.

    And if Bob is right, then anyone who lives with the Bible as the center of their lives will be just as horrible if not worse.

    But again, the Jewish people have historically embraced it as their own, and yet there is zero evidence that they’re any more hateful or violent than others, and plenty of evidence to suggest precisely the opposite.

    In other words, Bob can’t answer the obvious question:

    If the Bible is really so wicked and violent and awful, why are not the Jews that way? Why have the Jews tended to behave themselves better than most people in most times in history?

  • Larry

    You are recycling long debunked defamatory myths. Splitting hairs on which lies you told is a waste of time. Have fun with that.

  • Bob

    No, Ad Hominem Jack, and it’s time for you to put away your insults.

    Your entire beliefs are founded on nonsense. Do look at your beliefs more critically and sincerely in view of the above, and hopefully get over your ill-founded Christian delusions at last.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Ad Hominem Jack, for a change, try to respond to what you’ve been presented with.

    Your entire beliefs are founded on nonsense. Do look at your beliefs more critically and sincerely in view of the above, and hopefully get over your ill-founded Christian delusions at last.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Shawnie5

    Hey Jack, our multiple personality troll reveals yet another face!

    How many does that make? Bob, Philip, Laurie, Jerome, Veronica…did I miss any?

    Trolls with MPD are so entertaining, particularly when they talk about “delusions.”

  • Bob

    Actually, Shawnie5, Bob is the only name that I have ever used on this site. You will be able to distinguish my posts by my signature line that I use except for brief replies and comments, a signature line which, by the way, presents how I feel about the horrid god fraud that you and Jack try so hard to promote – not surprising given how much you have vested in it.

    So let’s drag you kicking and screaming to what you cannot counter. You have no modern, testable evidence for the claims of your religion. Furthermore, your whole Jesus sacrifice story is complete nonsense for an omnipotent being, and it is ridiculous to think that a god needed any form of sacrifice to do its “saving” task.Your whole religious scam AKA Christianity is founded on false (and stolen) premises.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    No, Jack, your points as usual about your wretched god are completely without merit. Those peoples of the past mainly got along by using practical morals and laws quite different from those of the bible. Also, in general, the goodness or badness of the people is not proof of the veracity of their myths. You might want to check in with the Greeks on that. And re the crazy Old Testament, it’s funny that your “god” got so much wrong in his first attempt and had to do a re-write.

    Furthermore, 2000+ years without a peep from the sky fairy of your god myths is more than sufficient grounds for doubt, to say the least. Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/