What pro-lifers should ask themselves about Colorado Springs

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Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs

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Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs

Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs

Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs

Anti-abortion groups have not been slow to condemn the shooting rampage at Colorado Springs’ Planned Parenthood facility, and good for them. If you call your cause pro-life, you shouldn’t support killing in its behalf.

But such condemnations are easy to issue. It’s a lot harder to own up to one’s own possible responsibility.

In this case, the pressing questions have to do with the surreptitious tape recordings of some Planned Parenthood personnel; their publication last summer in truncated, sensationalist form; and their promotion (and in some cases misrepresented) by the pro-life community and Republican politicians as evidence of Planned Parenthood’s nefarious nature. Would the killings have happened but for all this?

Thanks to fine reporting in today’s New York Times, we now know that Robert L. Dear, the man accused of the crime, is a Christian extremist who has expressed admiration for the Army of God, a loosely organized anti-abortion group that has claimed responsibility for a number of killings and bombings. From court appearances and further journalistic investigation, we are likely to obtain a clearer picture of what motivated him. I suspect that the tapes will turn out to be relevant.

If so, some in the pro-life community will doubtless place the blame on what was on the tapes: Planned Parenthood brought this upon itself. Others will say, though not publicly, that such assaults are a price worth paying to save unborn lives. Many will simply look away, blaming liberals for tarring everyone opposed to abortion with the same, illegitimate brush.

But if they’re truly pro-life, a little self-reflection is in order. Besides condemning the Colorado Springs rampage, they might also consider directing some criticism at the anti-abortion tactics and rhetoric that have made it just the latest violent attack on providers of a service that remains a woman’s constitutional right.

  • Larry

    The anti-abortion crowd has always had a blatant disregard for human life. It is ingrained into the point of view. If they cared about humans outside of 9 months of gestation they would not be attacking the legal right and access to abortion procedures in the first place. They would not be making pitiful excuses for harassment, assault, property damage and murder.

    They would be working towards eliminating the conditions which make women want to chose to have an abortion. They would be supporting widespread access to contraception. They would be working towards expanding access for working women to affordable child care. They would not be constantly attacking social welfare benefits for families with children.

    They will never own up to the ridiculous and immoral nature of their own views, rhetoric or acts. Taking responsibility is not in one’s wheelhouse when they are claiming God will absolve anything they do in his name.

  • Chaplain Martin

    Larry,
    Great response. I would add a little of my own and my wife’s. If the pro-lifers really want live births, how about providing funds and help for expectant mothers? How about helping after the birth? It looks like they are only interested in the baby until it is brought to term. Mothers are struggling with too many children and too few financial resources. There are a few NGO’s that help in this way, but too few. There are many people wanting to adopt, this could be another choice. Yes, contraceptives should be easy to get and free.

  • alison

    It was totally worth it. Pro-lifers provide funds and help for expectant mothers. Constantly! I am amazed that you are not aware of this. But, yes, I think the public needs to know what PP is up too and that they are people without souls.

  • Chris

    We ought to be careful about holding anti-abortion people to standards we hold no one else to

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/charles-camosy-anger-hatred-pro-life-rhetoric-article-1.2452072

  • Larry

    So that is your excuse for defamation, harassment, abuse of legal process, property damage and murder. Fine.

    Anti-abortion people like yourself show zero concern for born people. Your whole POV involves attacking expectant mothers for considering the choice of abortion. It involves pretending their concerns are an irrelevance. It involves pretending you are of such high moral character that you have a right to make personal decisions for others. It involves pretending any kind of immoral and evil act can be justified because you have such a self-styled righteous cause.

  • Larry

    Any other group which carries out the same kind of activities towards others would be branded a terrorist group. Anti-abortion people are held to a much looser standard that no one else is held to. Excuses are given for them in mainstream media and 1ies told in their favor are given far more credence than reality permits.

  • Jim

    There are several issues at play here. First, “pro-lifers” are concerned with life at all phases from conception to death. The hostile actions above are the exception and should be recognized as such. People working abortion clinics offer counseling and support for pregnant women who feel they have no other choice. The videos were in fact edited but viewing their full full length does not reduce the callous commerce this activity has become. I believe a greater issue is shown by the botched interview of a mass-murder expert on CNN. Her conclusion after much study was that the media (and this blogger?) are major contributors to the problem by giving these nut cases the notoriety they seek. We can discuss the issues without making the nuts famous. I don’t believe a motive has yet been determined so to speculate at this point is not responsible.

  • From NARAL Pro-Choice America

    Sorry, David Daleidon. You don’t get to create fake videos and accuse abortion providers of ‘barbaric atrocities’ one day and act shocked when someone shoots to kill the next.

    And you Troy Newman-using Operation Rescue to call for state sanctioned execution of doctors- and then crying crocodile tears when someone takes that vision into their hands.

    Its America. You are free to have your speech. You are not free from the judgment of the consequences of your hate filled rhetoric

    http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/files/2015/12/AbortionMeme.jpg

  • cken

    Nobody is without a soul. Don’t be so judgmental just because you don’t agree with PP. Work on saving souls and maturing your own soul rather than supporting killing other souls. Frankly that makes radical pro-lifers no better than ISIL or other radical Islamic organizations. And yet they call themselves Christians.

  • cken

    Jim Do pro-lifers believe in euthanasia when the person is in a vegetative state or suffering uncontrollable pain? We judge all Muslims by their radical element why should pro-lifers and Christians be exempt from similar castigation. Christians and Jews have been waging war against Muslims for 1300 years so Christians can’t claim the high road.

  • Anyone in authority – government, parent, insurance company, boss – “makes personal decisions for others.”

  • larry

    People have to be granted authority to decide for others.

    So what authority do anti abortion people have here? None.

    Who granted it to them? Nobody.

    They just take it upon themselves as knowing better about a woman’s personal decisions than herself.

  • Jack

    In other words, Larry hates pro-lifers and is perfectly willing to deploy Orwellian rhetoric and other forms of sophistry to underscore the point.

    In other news, the earth continued to rotate on its axis and revolve around the sun.

  • Jack

    Alison, it’s not just that they don’t know….it’s that they don’t care…..because if they really cared, they would be engaged enough on the issue to know who is or who isn’t providing such help.

    The far left talks a good game about helping others, but what they mean is using other people’s money through taxation, rather than their own. Their Scrooge-like lack of generosity in their own lives speaks volumes.

  • Jack

    Larry, even you know that what you just posted is laughably out of touch with reality.

  • Larry

    There you go Jack, more immature attacks, making stuff up and misrepresenting what other people say.

    You certainly don’t give a compelling reason to consider anti-abortion people like yourself to be moral, honest, mature, upstanding citizens. 🙂

  • Larry

    If the anti-abortion crowd actually cared about people they would be doing something besides attacking the legal right to abortion and access to the procedure. They would be something actually closer to pro-life rather than fetus worship.

    But its not about that. Never has been nor ever will be. Its about s1utshaming and delusions that self-styled moral superiority gives one the right to force others to do as they say.

  • Larry

    That is not a refutation of my remarks. Just flinging p00.

  • Jack

    There’s nothing to make up, Larry. I simply noted the obvious — that you hate pro-lifers and are willing to deploy empty rhetoric with Orwellian twists to make the point. You know that as well as I do.

    And nice try at trying to turn the tables by calling your critics immoral and dishonest. You are up to your eyeballs in dishonesty, but more to the point, you’re defending a morally bankrupt position that even most pro-choicers reject — that abortion is just great all the way to birth, when the baby is fully formed. To turn around and accuse pro-lifers (and most pro-choicers) of being immoral is like a cannibal with a leg hanging out of his mouth calling the sentencing judge immoral for stepping on an ant.

  • Jack

    Larry, when a fetus has arms, legs, a head, and a heart beat, tearing it up like Jack the Ripper is not exactly an act that will elicit a standing ovation or a medal of honor, unless your audience are psychotics in a lunatic asylum.

    For someone who regularly judges people for moving their pinky the wrong way, it’s interesting how you defend the indefensible when it comes to second or even third trimester abortion. You strain at gnats while swallowing camels.

  • Jack

    Larry, that’s absurd on its face. Even without looking at how people behave in the real world, as opposed to LarryLand, where myths and canards magically morph into truth, it stands to reason that if people care about fully-formed life before birth, they are likely to care about such life after birth.

    And there isn’t a shred of real-world evidence to the contrary. All you can come up with is the fact that many pro-lifers, along with many pro-choicers, don’t believe in Lefty Larry’s view that the way to help people is to dump buckets of taxpayer dollars on their heads.

    I guess that’s the radical-left substitute for baptism, but the obvious problem is it doesn’t work in the real world. People who really care about other people figured this out long ago….but for their efforts, yahoos like yourself respond by calling them every name under the sun.

    How dare they burst your silly bubble about how the real world operates.

  • Jack

    Larry, it’s ridiculous. Nobody in their right mind believes the mainstream media favor pro-lifers. Even you know that.

  • Jack

    NARAL can’t deal with the fact that Planned Parenthood medical personnel got caught on video simply telling us what a normal day is like, cutting up live fetuses that are developed enough to have heads and limbs, heartbeats and livers.

    Unless NARAL and friends can prove that the voices were dubbed or the people in the video were kidnapped, drugged, and somehow made to say what they said, their protests are empty and worthless.

    Describing a midterm or late-term abortion as “hate-filled rhetoric” is silly. Please explain how one should describe such a procedure besides medically. Should we wax poetic and say it’s an act of supreme love or sublime beauty? Maybe we should play the Hallelujah chorus of Handel’s Messiah to soften the impact of the thing described? Now’s the right season for it, in fact….just in time for Christmas.

  • Jack

    cken says, “Christians and Jews have been waging war against Muslims for 1300 years so Christians can’t claim the high road.”

    What??????

    For the better part of 20 centuries, Jews were a persecuted minority driven from country to country……they had no state, they had no army, they had no government. How in the world were they “waging war against Muslims for 1300 years?”

    It is more accurate to say that from the day the Jews re-established their state after 20 centuries of exile, radical Muslims have been trying to destroy it. Even prior to this re-establishment, Muslim marauders would swoop down on Jewish civilians and slaughter them.

    As for Christians, were it not for crucial victories against Muslim military invaders of Europe, from Tours in the 8th century to Vienna in the 17th century, all of Europe would be under shar’ia law today.

  • Larry

    I see you have no desire to hold people accountable for bad behavior if it is in service of your hysteric point of view. Ends justify your means is all that matters here. Such a fine example of Christian moral quagmire.

    You are doing nothing to refute my statements that people like yourself have no concern for born people. You are demonstrating the self-righteous nonsense essential to the anti-abortion POV I was talking about.

    Keep talking Jack, the more nonsense you spout, the clearer my points become to everyone else.

  • Larry

    Jack, can’t deal with the facts that the videos against PP were faked. He still maintains the long refuted fiction that they portrayed officials engaged in wrongdoing. Not bothering to acknowledge that even the Congressional hearings instigated by anti-abortion politicians against PP failed to find this.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jason-chaffetz-planned-parenthood-funding_5616ed01e4b0dbb8000de134?l4bo6r

    Jack, when have you stopped being a 1iar?

  • I don’t mind hosting the Jack and Larry Show, though it does begin to resemble the old Saturday Night Live take-off on Point/Counterpoint. I would, however, encourage you two bright fellows to work out your differences in private. Then you can tell us how well you’ve succeeded.

  • drwho13

    Black Lives Matter!

    “Minority women constitute only about 13% of the female population (age 15-44) in the United States, but they underwent approximately 36% of the abortions.

    According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, black women are more than 5 times as likely as white women to have an abortion.”

    http://www.blackgenocide.org/black.html

    Any thoughts?

  • cken

    Thoughts:
    1 Perhaps it is better they have an abortion than be the child of a single parent

    2. Make birth control more readily available. Perhaps free and without age limits.

    3 White couples usually don’t want to adopt a black baby because it is tough on the child.

    4 Don’t judge or condemn until you have walked a mile in their shoes.