Bill Hybels, 45, is the senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, the megachurch in South Barrington, Ill., that draws more than 16,000 people to its services each week. Hybels, author of the new book”The God You’re Looking For”(Thomas Nelson), spoke with RNS National Correspondent Adelle M. Banks recently on a wide range of topics, including his ministry’s approach to non-churchgoers, his pastoral visits with President Clinton, and his position on women ministers. Here is a portion of their discussion:

On theology

Q. Do you think that most people are seeking God if they don’t already believe they’ve found him?
A. I think there comes a time in almost every person’s life where he or she has one of those late-night, ceiling-staring sessions where the person asks,”Is this all there is? Is this the totality of what life is all about? Is there life beyond the grave? Do I have a soul?”And then the journey begins.

Q. How would you describe Willow Creek’s theology given that you aren’t associated with any particular denomination?
A. It would be the classic historic Christian theology and when people say well, make it clearer than that, we would fall right in line with the Billy Graham (Evangelistic) Association or Wheaton College or any of these classic evangelical institutions. Our statements of faith would probably be almost identical.

On his relationship to President Clinton

Q. What would you say is the most challenging aspect of being a pastor to the president?
A. To discern how I can best … encourage spiritual development because sometimes my role is that of a listener, sometimes my role is that of an encourager, sometimes it’s been more prophetic or a confrontational role, sometimes it’s strongly relational and very friendship-oriented and requires discernment to know what would best serve the president.

Q. How long do your sessions last?
A. Usually between 45 minutes and an hour.

Q. What’s the most challenging question he has asked you?
A. The specific conversations … we have a confidentiality agreement that we both honor. He has never broken that arrangement … nor have I and neither of us will.

On megachurches

Q. I wonder about your view of megachurches in general. Do you think they will remain a viable form of evangelical Christianity?
A. I think the general tendency is going to be for local churches to grow larger, especially in suburban and urban areas. However, I think … there’s always going to be the need for vital small churches in rural areas. I don’t see that as changing much in the next 15 … years. I don’t see that there are going to be many churches beyond the 7,000 to 10,000 range simply because of the complexity required to grow a church beyond that size and the logistics.

Q. But you think there will be more churches in the 2,000 to 7,000 range?
A. Whereas it used to be that churches between 1,000 and let’s say 3,000 or 4,000 were quite rare, they’re becoming very common and I’m quite enthusiastic about that because these kinds of churches tend to be able to provide all of the ministries that families require these days while still being somewhat manageable from a scale perspective.

On women in the ministry

Q. How would you describe your church’s approach to women in leadership roles in the church?
A. We encourage women to identify and develop and use their spiritual gifts. … We don’t restrict any office or position in the church on the basis of gender.

Q. I understand (within Willow Creek) there has been some kind of position paper on this in the last year or so?
A. It’s a working document right now.

Q. How would you describe that working document?
A. It gives a biblical defense for encouraging women to identify and use their spiritual gift in the church without restriction on the basis of gender.

Q. Is there a particular (Bible) verse you point to?
A. No, that’s a danger of reducing a complex issue like this to a few proof texts. You have to take a systematic view of Scripture to give adequate treatment of this particular matter.

Q. I understand that some people are concerned about this … affirmation of what you already have believed and are wondering how it might affect the evangelical world in general. How do you respond?
A. I think it will affect it positively. … In far too many churches, women grow up feeling like second-class citizens. … Many of these women yearn to put on a uniform and get in the game. They want to roll up their sleeves and participate in the ongoing redemptive drama of God and the world through their local church but they’re being told that they have to stay on the bench because they were born female instead of male, and I think that’s very sad.

Q. Are people with a different viewpoint (on the issue) welcome in your church?
A. Absolutely. Now, we … want to be unified in this position with our staff and we submitted this working document to our staff for its consideration and are moving with intentionality toward making sure that all of us are of one mind who are on the paid staff of the church. However, people in the church are welcome to be a part of Willow Creek regardless of the position that they hold on this providing they’re not being divisive or cruelâÂ?¦ We’ve had almost no serious contention … in our church over 21 years over this matter and when we first appointed elders in the early days of Willow we started with women elders and we have women teach from time to time and now we actually have two women on our teaching team.

Q. So, on some Sundays a woman might be in the pulpit?
A. Correct.

On the global church

Q. Give the fact that your church is independent, do you think denominationalism is on its way out?
A. I think there are signs of the decline of denominationalism almost everywhere you turn. Now, I wouldn’t go quite so far as to say the day of the denomination is over because certain denominations are awakening to the fact that the people in denominational leadership exist to serve local church pastors and their leadership instead of the case being vice versa. So right now, the Willow Creek Association, which is this fellowship of a couple of thousand churches around the world, is working with dozens of the leaders of these denominations to try to assist them in serving … the leadership teams in the congregations of their local churches. In certain denominations we’ve seen spectacular effects from that change in mindset, one of which would be in the Christian Reformed Church. Another would be in the Evangelical Free Church and these are very exciting prospects.

Q. Tell me about the international effect of Willow Creek.
A. I just finished a world tour in February that included Australia, Singapore, South Africa, Norway and the Netherlands and then I’m leaving … for New Zealand and Tasmania … and I think we have invitations from 10 or 15 countries right now to come and hold conferences to try to encourage and train church leaders.

Q. What does that (international interest) say to you, that it’s not just an American phenomenon?
A. What we’re talking about here is transcultural. Building a prevailing church does not depend on Western culture. Some of the most exciting churches in the world are located outside the United States. What we try to do is go to various countries that invite us and try to teach folks those transcultural, biblical principles … to build a prevailing church.

Q. What do you mean by a”prevailing church?”
A. One that is committed to evangelism and discipleship. One that is committed to volunteerism inside and outside the church. One that’s committed to living and proclaiming God’s word, the Bible. One that’s committed to small groups and people really becoming a family …

c. 1997 Religion News Service