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Love thy neighbor: Westboro's 'God Hates Fags' message vs. a drag show (VIDEO)

TOPEKA, Kans. (RNS) Steve Drain, spokesman for Westboro Baptist Church, says the intersection of 12th and Orleans streets is "the epicenter of the moral struggle of the covenant."

On one side sits Westboro Baptist Church, known for its small but vocal protests with colorful signs declaring that "God Hates Fags" or "Fag Marriage Dooms Nations." Directly across the street, the group Planting Peace purchased a house in 2012 and later painted it the rainbow colors of gay pride, officially launching it as the Equality House, a symbol of "compassion, peace and positive change," according to its website.

In a town of less than 130,000 residents, many of the 50 to 75 members of Westboro Baptist Church live within blocks of the Equality House. Loving thy neighbor can get complicated when polar ideologies meet within 50 feet of one another.

Fred Phelps Jr., son of the late Westboro founder Fred Phelps Sr., says he sees a resident of the Equality House while out running, but hasn't interacted much beyond "a nod of the head or a brief 'hi.'" When Equality House staged a drag show on their front yard, "All About That Bass" booming over into Westboro's yard, Phelps planned to stay away.

Video produced and edited by Sally Morrow | Religion News Service


  1. If God’s word is true, shouldn’t you follow it 100% of the time?

    “Kill Homosexuals” – God (Leviticus 20:13)

    Or are you saying some of ‘God’s word’ is complete nonsense?

  2. Why are we trying to change the subject all of a sudden?

    Just forget all your “Jesus-wanna-kill-you” scriptures for a moment, and please look at that “Equality Hell House” photo with me. That one photo is literally WORSE than anything the extremists at WBC have ever done, and that’s no joke.

    Look at those black men (and I’m saying this as a black man myself Max, so walk with me) dressed in WOMEN’s SKIRTS and STOCKINGS as if they have totally lost all self-esteem and self-respect. Dressed like 25-cent tricks in the alley.

    Totally shaming their long-suffering sacrificing mamas, totally shaming their sisters and brothers, totally shaming their aunties, totally shaming their RACE. Do you hear me, Max?

    Wearing women’s wigs and purses, and entertaining all the (correctly dressed) white folks in the photo with their skewed-up mess. Do you understand the level of SADNESS that you are seeing there, Max? Even if you’re gay, you surely ain’t born THAT way. That’s a horror show.

    Is that photo what King died for, Max? Is that photo what CHRIST died for??

    Hell, that photo proves that the homosexual movement, IS EVIL. What say you, Max?

  3. Sally Morrow needs to get her facts straight. Westboro Church doesn’t have a congregation, it’s all one family!
    Wonderful idea, serves them right to have a counter-demonstration now and then!
    This made me laugh for a full minute. Almost more than the last time I tuned in to the 700 Club and Old Fogey Pat was talking about “God’s dominion on earth.”
    Doc, you just don’t get it, do you? Have a nice night.

  4. To the non-Christian observer, the WBC’s stance on homosexuality is actually indistinguishable from yours. If there’s any difference at all, it’s that you might be even more obsessed with homosexuality than they are.

  5. There are still many Christians who are unfamiliar with how explicitly god demands the execution of gays.

    I would be happy to point out the hundreds of other instances where God demands executions – I do try – but since the topic is Westboro it looks like the most appropriate reference to discuss.

  6. Doc,

    I am a heterosexual male. I have been married to my (female) wife for 28 years. I raised my children in the church and I was a sunday school teacher.
    I NOW believe in letting people do whatever they want as long as they are not hurting anyone. Dressing in costumes is not a problem – it hurts nobody.

    And I know that life is short – if this is what makes them happy they must do it and I’m fine with it. Black, white, brown, tan, yellow, red – I don’t care about skin color.

    I judge people by the way they treat others. That is all.

    I am not threatened by anything that Gay people do. If my son told me he was gay I would be fine with it.

    Life is too short to hurt others – too short to waste on what other people ‘should’ do. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t hurt. Simple as that.

  7. @ Atheist Max

    “I judge people by the way they treat others. That is all.”

    Great comment.

  8. Maybe, but you don’t see the Equality House people protesting funerals and intentionally trying to insult complete strangers. The WBC is entirely malicious in all of their actions. There is no equivalence here between them.

  9. As our society continues to fragment along various cultural fault lines, I find it concerning how easy it is for those who provide information for mass consumption to manipulate the impression of what is going on in society. The truth is both of these groups represent extreme positions within their particular meaning groups. Westboro no more is “representative” of they typical Christian group as the other group is “representative” of the typical homosexual person or couple. Part of our education philosophy in the United States was that people should be equipped to think for themselves and be able to evaluate information and experience so that they would form a responsible citizenry and electorate. But the struggle for “power, influence and wealth” continues to dominate political discourse in America. It seems to be in our human nature to struggle with one another for power and control (cf: Foucault). In our 21st century media saturated environment, information tends to be presented in such a way as to accent and magnify the gaps and highlight the tensions and perceived threats. This generates attention and therefore increases advertising revenue as well as granting the information broker greater power and influence. This is the same tactic used on the left and the right. Even this website does not appear to be immune.

    The key issue as I see it for readers is will they allow themselves to become hyper-stimulated by the presentation of information or will they calmly and rationally evaluate not just what is being presented but why? What is the goal or purpose motivating the information broker as to why he or she or they presented the various story and in the way in which they did.

  10. We should not fear information.
    We should fear people who insist everyone else must come to the same conclusions.

    The problem with Westboro Baptist Church is its insistence on the absolute truth of its claims. “God wants….” is how it starts.
    If a claim cannot be validated, or demonstrated to be true – it should be abandoned.

  11. Maybe what Frank means about the Westboro display is he realizes it is defeating the anti-gay agenda. Frank has said many times he agrees with their “beliefs.”

    Sorry, there is NOTHING “Shameful” about standing up for the United States Constitution and Equal Protection Under the Law.

  12. Thanks, The Great God Pan, I was going to remind “Doc” his beliefs are the same.

    Perhaps what “Doc” is really condemning is how the Westboro antics are defeating his anti-gay agenda, unaware he is having a similar effect.

  13. So now, out of nowhere, “Doc” claims he is African American? We know why that’s his latest deception. Anti-gays have claimed for many years that all African Americans are anti-gay, but that nonsense was debunked, once and for all, last November in Maryland. Twice as many AA Maryland voters voted FOR marriage equality than voted to hurt same gender Maryland couples.

    This all started in 2008, when an exit pollster in California announced the evening of the election that a large percentage of AA California voters had voted to hurt same gender California couples. No other exit polling firm had such figures, and this one polling firm corrected their mistake the next morning.

    Anti-gays try to fight the obvious comparison between racial discrimination and homophobia, but their lies about that have also been debunked. Science has proven sexual orientation is inborn and unchangeable. Several US federal and several US State High Courts have examined that evidence and ruled that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is similarly unconstitutional as discrimination based on race because BOTH are IMMUTABLE characteristics.

  14. Sorry, Jack, that’s factually incorrect. Only the Westboro family are abnormal. Sexual orientation, whether gay or non-gay, has been shown by science to be inborn and unchangeable, and psychologists have shown being gay or lesbian is just as healthy and “normal” as being non-gay. However, psychologists identified homophobia as a mental illness and published their results in the Journal of the National Institutes of Health in 1953. Psychologists report that the most commonly observed symptom of the mental disorder homophobia is cognitive dissonance, an inability of those so afflicted to accept documentation that contradicts their deep-seated phobia and hatred of LGBT Americans.

  15. Fred Phelps led a congregation with a census which might have broken into three digits and whose members were mostly his relatives. He is not notable for much other than inciting his congregants to hold up rude signs outside of funerals. So, what accounts for articles like this: that journalists love a freak show (even if their readers do not) or that journalists do this for purposes other than informing their readers? Anyone at Religion News Service fessing up?

  16. @Art Deco,

    As usual, you are not caring about anyone.

    SEPTEMBER 4, 2014

    If any number of people are using Christianity as a reason to kill people, it is a moral obligation to report it.

    Your indifference to these nightmares is duly noted and is amazingly typical of the ‘Christian’ response to the despicable Bible.

    “Kill Homosexuals” – Leviticus (20:13)

  17. Then, according to your last sentence let’s abandom CCM’s false claim that homosexuality “has been shown by science to be inborn and unchangeable”, since science clearly FAILS to confirm either claim and in fact now refutes the second one.

    (The wife of the current mayor of NYC also refutes CCM’s claim, but that’s another story).

  18. What you’re not telling your readers is the the DSM-IV, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), which is THE bible for the entire psychology community, DOES NOT list homophobia AT ALL as any kind of mental disorder.

    In fact, the entire DSM series have never done so. “Homophobia” is just a fake, ” psychological-sounding” word that gay activists use (and which gay activist Michaelangelo Signorile has publicly admitted is “overused.”)

    Sorry CCM, but people are now aware of the word games that gays play.

  19. But you DO see Equality House exploiting some very troubled black men, having tons of fun off of THEM dressing up like female prostitutes and crooning like Motown Redux, while THEY dress all normally and sane like white people who have common sense.

    Malicious? You can be malicious and corrosive as Hades, with an equally hateful agenda as the WBC, while wearing all smiles and playing to the media like professional PR stars. Welcome to Equality House.

  20. Actually CCM, I’ve mentioned my race in previous threads, but you were out of town or somehow missed it, and I don’t bring up my race often unless it has something to do with a thread or with somebody’s post.

    You expect readers to take you at your word when you say online that you’re gay, right? Well you better get used to extending the same courtesy to online people of color who identify themselves as such.

    By the way, your claim that “Science has proven sexual orientation is inborn and unchangeable” has been totally debunked and destroyed by now. Even Masters, Johnson and Kolodny wrote in their human sexuality textbook that it’s possible for “highly motivated” individuals to experience sexual orientation change.

    CCM, I’m totally surprised that you would even ATTEMPT to float that debunked “innate and unchangable” balloon these days. Readers will find that scientific studies (and the no-longer-lesbian wife of NYC’s current mayor) have popped that balloon absolutely.

  21. Oh, so we want to quote some death threats, do we?

    “Hey Bubba, you really acted like a real idiot at the Yes of [sic] Prop 8 Rally this past weekend. Consider yourself lucky. If I had a gun I would have gunned you down along with each and every other supporter.”

    —Gay Marriage Supporter making a death threat to the mayor of Fresno, California after the mayor supported the initial passage of Proposition 8.

    To borrow your phrasing: If any number of people are using Gay Marriage as a reason to kill people, it is a moral obligation to report it.

    So, are you indifferent to these nightmares?

  22. Thanks, Atheist Max. fully agreed. The Old Testament took harsh views on many things, but Jesus Christ did not judge. Why can’t more Christians emulate this man they profess to love and honor?

  23. Westboros hate is sinful and shameful and the other display is sinful and shameful.

  24. @Doc,

    Your Bible INSTRUCTS MURDER as a duty to God.
    If I’m against that threat, why would I not be against any others?

    If you care about such threats, why do you give a pass to the Bible?

  25. @Doc,

    I’m against ALL threats. Why else would I be pointing them out!?
    And I am consistent. You apparently, to my surprise have no objection to the biggest threats of them all:

    “Kill Homosexuals” (Leviticus 20:13)

    I am pointing to a Pastor’s threat to homosexuals, announced to his congregation of 3000 people in Tennesee; 10% of whom were probably gay because that is the statistic from the general population.

    You already excused the Pastor’s threat – and you defend the Bible’s verses which validate the threat.

    Furthermore, actual homosexuals are killed every week – your Bible endorses the murders just as this Pastor makes clear:

    Killed for being homosexual
    Nivacil Dias de Godoy, 55,
    in Salvador, Brazil, Sept. 20, 2013.
    “the cause of death was stabbing — with a piece of wood inside a condom that pierced the victim through his anus.”

    I am always consistently against death threats.
    I have repeatedly called attention to these threats.

    But you, DOC, apparently endorse all these threats as long as they are from god:

    You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

    Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

    “For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:26-28)

    “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)

    “The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality…liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine..” (1 Timothy 1:10)

    “Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” (Romans 1:32)

    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:17-19)

    How do you say you are against any death threats when you support
    All of this primitive mayhem?
    Don’t tell me about the virtues of your ‘Christian’ morality.

  26. “CCM’s false claim”

    The evidence shows that homosexuality is normal.
    Show me evidence to the contrary or you have nothing.

  27. @Diana,

    “Jesus Christ did not judge”

    Everybody knows that is completely wrong. The Bible would not exist if that were true. The Bible was written to spread God’s warnings of his judgement and to enforce obedience.

    You know Jesus is the judge who commands executions as the Nobleman in the Parable of the Minas – right? When he will return at the Parousia?

    “Bring to me those enemies of mine who would not have me as their King and execute them in front of me.” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    “The master shall cut him to pieces” – Jesus (Luke 12)
    JESUS describes what he intends to do to his own enemies.

    “..bring to me those enemies of mine who would not have me as their King, and execute them in front of me.” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    “Drown him with a millstone” (Matt 18:6)

    “And why do you break the command of God
    for the sake of your tradition? …. ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ ” (Matthew 15:3)

    “…if they are unworthy..REMOVE your blessing of peace.” – JESUS (Matt 10:13)

    “I have come to bring FIRE…What constraints! I am impatient to bring NOT PEACE BUT DIVISION.” – Jesus (Luke 12:49-51)

    “Hate your parents…hate your life” – Jesus (Luke 14:26)

    “Eat of my body” and “Be baptized and believe” or “Be condemned to Hell” – Jesus (John 6:53-54) (Mark 16:16).

    “I shall kill her children with Death” – Jesus (REV. 1:22-23)

    “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death…for ME.” – JESUS (Matthew 10:21)

    “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his daughter, and a daughter against her mother, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.” – JESUS (Matthew 10:35)

    “And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet AS A TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM.” – JESUS (Luke 9:3-5)

    “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commands and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” – JESUS (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

    “not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law” – JESUS (Matthew 5:18-19)

    Please don’t tell me this Jesus myth has a shred of use to modern people. The only healthy response is to reject all of this.

  28. Really Doc?

    You equate the protesting of military funerals with a drag show? Are you kidding me? WBC acted to intentionally cause the emotional distress of families mourning fallen soldiers for publicity. You have no sense of perspective.

    You call WBC’s agenda hateful, but in reality you agree with pretty much their entire view. Your attempt at distancing yourself from them is laughable.

  29. Please tell us what part of Westboro’s political agenda you oppose, Frank. Is there anything? Posting nasty comments about the nice Americans across the street from your political allies won’t distract readers from the fact your anti-gay political agenda is identical to Westboro’s.

  30. No, “Doc,” I’ve never seen that before, and I’ve been debunking your deceptions for some time now.

    Why should normal, non-homophobic Americans extend any courtesy to anti-gays? Anti-gays tried to trash our United States Constitution!

    Sorry, “Doc,” no, there has been no legitimate refutation of the fact that sexual orientation is inborn and unchangeable, just whining from anti-gays who are unable to accept facts that contradict their homophobia. One bisexual lady doesn’t “pop” any “balloon.” So where is your documentation?

  31. You’re correct, Larry. Anti-gays are that desperate to distance themselves from their Westboro leaders now that they can n longer ignore the evidence that Westboro is tanking their shared anti-gay political agenda.

  32. Poor, poor “Doc.” He should reread about cognitive dissonance again and again until he can come to accept the facts that contradict his anti-gay agenda. The simple fact is homophobia has been clearly identified as a mental disorder since 1953.

  33. You’re correct, Atheist Max. After all this time, the only “evidence” that “Doc” can post is that the wife of the mayor of New York is bisexual. It’s really very tacky and cruel of anti-gays to try to drag her through their anti-gay filth.

    I suspect “Doc” is never going to admit his “source” is the website of a dishonest anti-gay Hate Cult.

  34. Why should we believe your WILD CLAIMS about “death threats,” “Doc”? Anti-gays have had 6 years to document their wild claims about the California anti-gay H8te Vote. To date, all anti-gays have ever been able to provide is a “list” of self-serving claims by anti-gays themselves.

    It’s time anti-gays stopped trying to drag their LGBT victims down to their level. Check with the FBI about their statistics of LGBT Americans being victims of violent Hate Crimes–then look for any evidence at all that anti-gays have been similarly victimized.

  35. the vast majority supporting the biological basis of same sex attraction.

    Google Scholar will give you worthless kitchen sink results. (And I’m sure you’ve produced a bibliography assessing the abstracts of all of them).

    It’s been known for a generation from studies of identical and fraternal twins that homosexuality is not a heritable trait like eye color given that discordant behavior is more common than concordant homosexuality among identical twins and more common by a factor of at least 3 among fraternal twins.

  36. As usual, you are not caring about anyone.

    Not my job to care about you. It’s the job of the staff at the institution housing you to put you in art therapy classes which might be of assistance to you and take your computer away. They might adjust your meds as well.

  37. @Art,

    When did you decide to not be gay? How strong are your gay impulses?
    If homosexuality is only a choice, tell me all about how much lust you have for hairy guys.

  38. I’m not gay.
    My concerns are for those who are. As a fellow citizen it is a moral obligation.

    As an example of Christianity, you demonstrate its corruptions:
    selfish pursuit of personal salvation without regard to the greater community, promotion of solipsism, fascism and tribalism.

  39. If you think you’re “helping gays away from sin” maybe you could use a less offensive term then fag? Also I don’t remember the part where God says he hates anyone, and if you’re going to follow the old testemate like and instruction manual then you probably should eat kosher, never put on clothing with holes in it or have any tattoos.

  40. We are not under Jewish Law today. That old Law Code was done away with and Christians are not obliged to follow it.(Romans 10:4; Colosians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18) We are under the Law of the Christ which is to love God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength.(Matthew 22:37-39) This means following his commandments to Christians.(1John 5:2-3) Love thy neighbor and show respect for all people…. This doesn’t negate the fact that God’s word to Christians is still that homosexual practices are wrong and those who refuse to follow God’s requirements for salvation (repentance) will still receive the judgement of death.(1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Revelation 21:8) This is not up to humans to carry out the sentence though.

  41. @Fmr Cath,

    “That old Law Code was done away with”

    WHAT!? You are so wrong!

    “For truly, truly I say…not an iota, NOT A DOT, will pass from THE LAW” – JESUS (Matthew 5:18-19)

    If you are a Christian, you have no choice.
    You are instructed explicitly by Jesus to follow the old laws.
    Pretend otherwise and go to Hell.

    In Mark 10:19 Jesus said:

    “Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, DEFRAUD NOT, Honour thy father and mother.”

    This is NOT only THE 10 COMMANDMENTS of Exodus – Jesus goes much farther…

    The command against DEFRAUDING is not among the 10.

    Instead, Jesus goes out of his way in Mark to include Leviticus in his commands – this is the LAW he is referring to… “Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor,” (Lev. 19:13)

    JESUS INCLUDES LEVITICUS 19:13: “do not defraud”

    And a few lines away is LEVITICUS 20:13: “KILL HOMOSEXUALS”

    So JESUS is demanding Leviticus 20:13 also, “Kill homosexuals”
 along with other 600 other stoning laws and which call for death.

    So, You don’t follow Exodus?
    I’m delighted that you don’t care about the 10 COMMANDMENTS!

    1. Jesus preached Yahweh’s Laws including LEVITICUS to his followers.

    2. Jesus ENDORSED AND VALIDATED all of the laws of Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers and the Old Testament! This includes “Kill Homosexuals” (Leviticus 20:13)


    SEPTEMBER 4, 2014

    And gays are dying every day. Thanks to Christians who follow Jesus:

    Nivacil Dias de Godoy, 55,
    in Salvador, Brazil, Sept. 20, 2013.
    “the cause of death was stabbing — with a piece of wood inside a condom that pierced the victim through his anus.”

    Christian cruelty and inhumanity is bitter cold.
    As cold as Jesus himself:
    “Execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    I think
    Jesus is disgusting.

  42. Art – You don’t care.
    here is your religion: “It is only ME” – Art

    And you think atheists have no morals? wow.

  43. @Art..

    “It is not my job to care…” – Art Deco

    Nivacil Dias de Godoy, 55,
    in Salvador, Brazil, Sept. 20, 2013.
    “the cause of death was stabbing — with a piece of wood inside a condom that pierced the victim through his anus.”

    Christian cruelty and inhumanity is bitter cold.
    As cold as Jesus himself:

    “Execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    Just please don’t tell me I need Jesus Christ for my morality.
    Because that is clearly where you are getting yours.

  44. So Jesus says “Follow the execution laws or no heaven for those who fail to execute”, is that right Max ?????

    I knew you were into all that “Jesus wanna Kill You” stuff. Sheesh.

    And just think, YOU are an atheist, so Jesus REALLY done got it in for YOU, now don’t He? You really believe that you’re at the top of Mobster Jesus’ Hit List, dont’cha??

    See, Max, like most atheists, you need just a little more work on your hermeneutics. Like Remedial Bible Study 101 or something!

  45. Ohh, so you are open to evidence on this issue, is that right Max?

    Well I’m glad that you are, because CCM is not. Remember, CCM’s false claim is that homosexuality “has been shown by science to be inborn and unchangeable”. CCM’s specific claim is what will get REFUTED right here and now, with evidence.

    NO scientific study at all confirms or proves that homosexuality is inborn. Not one.

    1. NOT INBORN!gay—born-that-way/cm6x


    Jones and Yarhouse,

    Schartz and Masters, “The Masters and Johnson Treatment Program for Dissatisfied Homosexual Men,” American Journal of Psychiatry, vol 141, pp.173-81.

    Masters, Johnson, and Kolodny, HUMAN SEXUALITY (textbook, 1995, pg 387) : “Such treatment (to convert them to heterosexuality) is sometimes possible with homosexuals who are highly motivated and desire such a change (Hatterer 1970, Masters and Johnson 1979, Marmor 1980)….”

    Dr. Neil Whitehead, online chapter 12 (“Can Sexual Orientation Change”), from “My Genes Made Me Do It”, 3rd edition 2013),

    Gerald Van Der Aardweg, On the Origins and Treatment of Homosexuality, A Psychoanalytic Reinterpretation (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger 1986).

    “Secular psychology is far more effective in helping homosexuals change than most people think and many professionals would like us to know — or know themselves.”

    — Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, psychiatrist, psychoanalyst (and even a masters of science in physics from Yale!), author of Homosexuality And The Politics of Truth, (1996), page 196.

    I don’t really know what you mean by your arbitrary claim of “homosexuality is normal”, but I do know that CCM’s arbitrary claim is PROVEN FALSE from science itself.

  46. When WBC uses the term “Fag” in their public messages, then that term was offensive. (And I agree, it IS offensive!)

    But when the Gay Activists publicly promoted the 7th annual “Million Fag March” last May, then all of a sudden it wasn’t an offensive term anymore. It was A-Okay.

    Such hypocrisy is reprehensible. The Gay Activists are as hateful and hurtful as the WBC.

  47. And by the way, since Chirlane McCray (the formerly lesbian wife of the mayor of NYC) specifically says that she is NOT a bisexual, you don’t get to ignore her self-testimony and label her bisexual anyway.

    You say you’re gay, you want people to accept your self-testimony. So get used to extending the same courtesy to the personal self-testimonies of ex-gays and ex-lesbians.

  48. @Doc,

    Thanks for trying. I am appreciative that you attempted to compile what you believe to be solid evidence.

    I have spent the last hour looking over all the results.
    And I am not impressed with these studies as far as methodology or conclusions.

    For example:
    “Specifically, 23% of the subjects reported success in the form of successful “conversion” to heterosexual orientation and functioning”

    That is an extremely small ‘success rate’ for a condition which is claimed to be reversible. And there is no follow up to show that these people are still converted. The study was published in 2011 yet there is no evidence of a followup to see how long these people stayed straight. Also, the sample is extremely small – only 71 men. No women?

    How were these men chosen? How do we know the gay men who ‘succeeded’ were not actually bi-sexual? They may have had some attraction to both sexes and we already know this is a significant number of homosexuals.
    Were they a self-selected group? Was it double blind? Why are there no peer-reviewed journals in your selections? Scientists are always competing for conclusive evidence and these studies are not anywhere near conclusive.

    Even if one were to accept that these studies were conducted scientifically, the results are terrible.
    I’m surprised you are using this as your best evidence.

    The studies which have been made public by the Institutes of Mental Health and others have been far more substantial and have shown that homosexuality is naturally occurring across all cultures equally.
    Life is not perfect. Sex is complicated.
    It does not appear to me that you have provided convincing evidence of your claim that homosexuality is a choice.

  49. “For truly, truly I say…not an iota, NOT A DOT, will pass from THE LAW” – JESUS (Matthew 5:18-19)”

    Finish the quote, please. “…until all be accomplished,”

    Now, give us the verse where all was pronounced accomplished.

    And then you might have a clue about what Fran just said.

  50. CarrotCM is absolutely wrong. Neither DSM IV or DSM V identify “homophobia” as a mental disorder.

    Now I suppose one could be “phobic” about homosexuality but simply ti disagree with a behavior or political agenda is far from saying someone is afraid of it. It would appear to me that those who point the fingers at others as being “phobic” also point the fingers at themselves using the standards of criterion they apply.

    And neither is cognitive dissonance classed as a disorder. It is far more common in human behavior and so according to Carrot’s reasoning because it appears to occur naturally, it must be normal.

  51. Very very little can be proven to be true.

    For example, prove that God does not exist.

    Perhaps the claim God does not exist should be abandoned.

  52. There is growing evidence of a biological basis for pedophilia, psychopathy, cruelty, and so forth.

    Human beings are not computers. We can evaluate our base inclinations and decide how we want to live out our lives.

  53. The anti-theists and militant homosexual crowd hijacked this thread. Sad.

    WBC spreads hate and intolerance – of a sort totally inconsistent with the message of the Cross & historic Christ-followers.

    The militant gay lobby spreads hate and intolerance in the name of stomping out hate and intolerance.

    And as this thread shows, anti-theists are like all religious fanatics: spreading hate and intolerance in the name of stomping out hate and intolerance.

    The reign of God is about true Liberty, love, acceptance, and inner transformation. These are the key tenets of all Christ-followers, and why those who hate it lie about us.


  54. Not good enough Max. In fact, when you start asking critical questions (similar to those you asked of me and my sources) of those sources that CCM claims as proof that homosexuality “is innate and unchangable”, you do see some REAL serious problems.

    In fact, you see MANY MORE problems with CCM’s stuff, because while I (and even the sources themselves) are NOT claiming that every since homosexual gets changed, CCM is claiming “Innate” and “unchangable”, period so only ONE evidence of exceptions is actually needed to disprove each of his terms.

  55. Don’t you ever aspire to actually learn and understand something? Your foolishness and ignorance are embarrassing, just like men pretending to be women.

  56. @Jim McNeely,

    “spreading hate and intolerance in the name of stomping out hate and intolerance.”

    Well …. Jesus has caused a big problem here.

    How else do you suggest waking people up to that fact?
    Where do you think WBC gets its hate from to begin with?

    “Kill Homosexuals” (Leviticus 20:13)
    “Kill my enemies in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    Are you trying to say this Biblical cruelty is good?
    Do you not care about the harm it does?

    Every month more Gays are killed because of this bible!

    “the only remedy for homosexuals is that they be put to death..”
    SEPTEMBER 4, 2014

    Change the word to ‘jews’ and you would be talking about invoking genocide.

    I would love to hear your defense of this horrible bible.

  57. @Doc,

    Making The Bible into a “book of god’s love” is YOUR problem, not mine.

    “bring to me those enemies of mine and EXECUTE THEM IN FRONT OF ME” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    Nevermind that this is a parable about fear and obedience.
    Nevermind that this is a story where Jesus uses the Nobleman as his avatar to explain the Parousia where he will return and IMMORALLY force the Good servants to SLAUGHTER THE BAD SERVANTS!

    Instead ask yourself this: “Why didn’t Jesus All-Knowing God understand that millions would be killed because of his words?”

    He either was not really an all-knowing God.
    or he didn’t CARE!

    Jesus remains nothing but a disastrous problem for those of us who actually care about humanity and who want to improve the world!

    Jesus is dangerous garbage. jeesh! it is so painfully obvious.

  58. @Doc,

    I have never met a gay person who wouldn’t have preferred to be heterosexual. Considering the HELL you Christians put the gay people through – do you really think they would choose to be on the receiving end of such hatred if they didn’t have to be?

    I mean who the hell do you people think you are?

  59. @Shawnie

    “…until all be accomplished,”


    Does it mean keep the laws of Moses only until the resurrection?
    Only until the Parousia?
    Only until the crucifixion?
    Only until the end of the world?
    Only until the end of this generation?
    Only until he changes them?


    And guess what?
    It doesn’t matter what Jesus meant by “Until all is accomplished” because it is incoherent no matter how it is applied.
    In one breath Jesus says God’s laws are perfect and unchanging, then in another breath he says he came to change the laws, but then again he says the laws are not to be changed!

    It is disgusting that human intelligence has no say in this garbage.
    And it is dangerous nonsense.

    The bible is indefensible.

  60. @Mike

    Totally agree. Let’s drop the claim that god doesn’t exist, and while we’re at it, let’s apply that rule in a likewise manner to drop the claim the god does exist. Neither claim is necessary in the absence of the other.

    Do we have a deal?

  61. Wow, as part of the LGBT Community, what is REALLY Shameful, is the Bigotry you display towards Drag Performers, and by extension, Trans* Woman! So maybe you should just close ur virtual mouth, along with your closed mind!


    You tell me, Mr. Phony Sunday School Teacher. There is a very simple answer and I dare say many around here could produce it quite readily.

    If you don’t know it, then you have never understood law vs. grace and certainly had no business ever teaching Christian doctrine to anyone.

  63. Loving a person is love. It’s not hurtful or shameful or rude. Westboro on the other hand ks all three. And a disgrace to any and all people woth a loving heart- straight OR gay.

  64. My spell check obviously wasn’t on. THAT’S the abomination in life.

  65. @Shawnie,

    The reason I don’t teach sunday school and don’t believe this nonsense anymore is because people make claims about what these texts mean and they NEVER come up with consistent answers.

    But then they claim that it is true anyway – whatever they come up with!
    The bald audacity!

    Meanwhile people are threatened:


    SEPTEMBER 4, 2014


    Speaks volumes about what Christianity is really good for!

  66. If anyone believes all loving Got wants to kill those he created needs help. The church is no different than a drug dependence group. Cannot stand on their own without a help from a group of bigots.

  67. yes after the democrats manipulated the us constitution to fit there agendas it is shameful to stick up for your and their twisted interpretation of it..

  68. its not loving a person to ignore there homosexuality as if it was not sin its either ignorance or hate or standing up for evil.. PEOPLE have no right to decide whats loving only THE BIBLE DOES.

  69. than by your own words you would be unloving and all 3 to Westboro Baptist.. or are you saying its ok to be mean in rude to west borrow Baptist since no one likes them any way but not to homosexual sinner’s.. since that’s a more popular way to sin..

  70. only creeps take Gods word out of their context ..and use it for their evil purposes .. A-MAX

    your really proving your satans little concubine to day
    as you do most every day A max..

  71. Great post Mike/.. should make people think may be sin should be pointed out..

  72. DIANNA PHONEX That’s the whole Point no one can BE GOOD like Jesus .. that’s why Jesus came to live and die in your stead to..


    it easy when people flaunt there sin to show it to them ..did you know defending some ones sin is just as sinful ?
    if you knew your bible you would know Jesus says to judge righteously
    one who does not stand in the record of JESUS righteousness CAN NOT DO THAT only Christians can judge righteously .THROUGH FAITH JESUS WAS PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS FOR US..

  73. carrot cake I think if we both went into the same black neighbor hood and your message was blacks are pro queer and my message was Blacks are pro being the sex God gave them.. I would just bet i would have a lot less trouble than you ..

  74. There is nothing “sinful and shameful” about men dressing as women and performing. In Shakespeare’s time, men performed all roles in a play. It is sinful and shameful to cast judgment on people one has no real idea about. All we see here is a man dressed as a woman. They wear no Scarlet Letter to justify any other assumptions.

  75. ya know ONCE a Christian realizes just like the atheists they to have a old stupid idiot of a jackass IN THEM also,, that can never be converted to Christianity .
    they start having a little more sympathy for the Atheists retarded stupidly.
    yes that old idiot of a sinful nature lurks in all of us.. we all recognize it non Christian and Christian alike even the atheists are well known for calling Christians idiots and vice versa.

    .Its just that the non Christian is always in slavery as the devils little concubine
    so we should even have more sympathy for them.

    .yet our old idiot in side of us also does not want that and must be drowned in daily repentance because soon we learn that old rascal of a idiot can swim..

  76. yet of course the devil must throw out life preservers for the atheist as the devil does not want that idiot ever to drown…yet God still is in control and can still break through and drowned that idiot in true repentance one day..

  77. You go, Equality House! What a perfect counter-protest against the ignorance and bigotry across the street. You are all beautiful! ♥

  78. So, since you’re all about keeping things the way they were in biblical times, does that mean you shun electricity, computers, women’s rights, anti-slavery, and the like? No? Clearly not because you’re participating in this discussion using at least one of these objects. You’re a hypocrite and a bigot. Look those words up before you attempt to argue against them… no wait. Forget it. Bigots like to remain bigots so I already know you won’t.

  79. Atheist Max,

    As a former atheist, I can tell you now that you have ZERO basis for your arguments.

    What atheists and non-Christians love to do is twist the Word of God to fit their own agenda.

    I do not agree with Westboro Church’s twisted interpretation of the Word of God. Nor do I agree with Planting Peace’s agenda of advocating gay lifestyle when the Word of God does declare homosexuality will not inherit the Kingdom of God as stated below.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    ‘Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.’

    Your quote from the Holy Bible is incorrect, this is a classic example of how atheists will twist the words to fit their agenda, your quote was ““Kill Homosexuals” – God (Leviticus 20:13)”

    Here is the actual verse in its full form:

    Leviticus 20:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.”

    This is vastly different than what you quoted. The full quote explains in better detail what is being said. The phrase “put to death” does not mean a physical death, it means a spiritual death of one’s soul.

    Atheists are notorious for changing the Word of God to fit their own beliefs. Yea, you atheists do have a belief. Did you know that? Sure you do! You believe in nothing, that’s a belief.

    So, if you believe in nothing, then why are you even bothering reading the Holy Bible and twisting it around to fit your agenda?

    How come you atheists are not condemning the Quaran (Islam) or the Torah (Jewish)?

    Stop twisting the Word of God and start quoting EXACT quotes from the Holy Bible, not what YOU BELIEVE is to be correct. (remember, that’s a belief, too)

  80. Atheist Max,

    Once again, your twisted interpretation of the Word of God is out there for all to read.

    Your comment of this verse, “Kill my enemies in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27) is inaccurate. Once again, you have twisted the words of that verse in order to make your arguments against Christians seem more valid. You are leaving out important verses that would have made a lot more sense.

    Luke 19:27 verse is part of the LARGER context of the parable of monetary usage that Jesus was teaching.

    Here is the FULL context: Luke 19:11-27

    11: While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. 12: So He said, “A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return. 13: And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, ‘Do business with this until I come back.’ 14: But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to reign over us.’ 15: When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done. 16: The first appeared, saying, ‘Master, your mina has made ten minas more.’ 17: And he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.’ 18: The second came, saying, ‘Your mina, master, has made five minas.’ 19: And he said to him also, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’ 20: Another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I kept put away in a handkerchief; 21: for I was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man; you take up what you did not lay down and reap what you did not sow.’ 22: He *said to him, ‘By your own words I will judge you, you worthless slave. Did you know that I am an exacting man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow? 23: Then why did you not put my money in the bank, and having come, I would have collected it with interest?’ 24: Then he said to the bystanders, ‘Take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.’ 25: And they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas already.’ 26: I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 27: But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.”

    In its full context verse 27 makes a lot more sense that you pulling a few words out of the context of what was being taught by Jesus in monetary usage.

    Don’t you feel dumb for calling the Holy Bible ‘horrible’?

    I’m certain I know what your response will be, but for giggles, I will let you make a fool out of yourself. You don’t need my help doing so.

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