A Charlie Hebdo building with cartoons on the doors.

Muslims on edge after Paris terrorist attack on satirical magazine

PARIS (RNS) A horrific attack on a satirical magazine that mocked Islam left 12 people dead Wednesday (Jan. 7) and put the Muslim community on edge.

A Charlie Hebdo building with cartoons on the doors.

A Charlie Hebdo building with cartoons on the doors.

The hunt is now on for the assailants, two or three masked men who witnesses and police say opened fire with automatic weapons inside the office of French weekly Charlie Hebdo.

"People are exploiting this one way or another," said Fateh Kimouche, 38, the founder of Al Kanz, a prominent French Muslim blog. "The terrorists didn't distinguish what faith their victims were from. ... I just found out that one of the cops killed, his name was Ahmed. Even Muslims aren't safe."

The three gunmen who attacked the magazine during an editorial meeting reportedly shouted "Allahu Akbar," and described themselves as al-Qaida in Yemen. They killed prominent cartoonists, staff members and two police officers in what French officials described as a carefully planned and executed attack.

The French weekly has drawn the ire of Muslims before. Its offices were firebombed in 2011, after a spoof issue skewering Muhammad, the Muslim prophet. A year later, the magazine published crude caricatures of Muhammad, shown naked and in sexual poses. Most Muslims object to any depictions of the prophet, even if reverent.

Reaction -- and condemnation -- was swift.

Dalil Boubakeur, president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith, said in a statement that the strike was an “attack against democracy and freedom of the press.”

Boubakeur also warned against "throwing oil on the fire," in an apparent reference to simmering anti-Muslim sentiment in France and across Europe.

Europe is no stranger to terrorist attacks. Bombings in Spain and Britain killed and injured hundreds of people a decade ago. Algerian Islamists also targeted France in the 1990s.

France has the largest Muslim community in the  Europe Union, an estimated 5 to 10 percent of a population of about 66 million people.

French Muslims say their community has been stigmatized for years. They point to the ban on Muslim full-face veils called the "burqa" and "niqab" passed in 2010 as just one more example of restrictions being imposed on their religion.

Traffic and a beggar in the Metropolitan Paris.

Traffic and a beggar in the Paris metro.

Muslims complained about the tone of that debate, with politicians saying that such legislation was urgent to preserve national identity and national security.

"I believe that the attacks today will only grow the racism against Muslims," said Abdallah Zekri, president of the National Observatory Against Islamophobia, in Paris. "I hear many politicians saying that this is an Islamist terrorist attack and not just a terrorist attack."

Benoit Gomis, international security analyst and associate fellow at London-based Chatham House, a think tank, said France needs to take care in how it reacts to this attack.

"We should be careful with statements and shouldn't stigmatize the Muslim community further," he said. "This should be about the resilience of the French people in the face of such attacks and creating a more inclusive society because that is the best way of combating terrorism."

Gomis said there was no indication that anti-Islam sentiment contributed to this attack or others by extremists.

On the Place de la Republique in Paris Wednesday night, people gathered to display their shock, anger, sadness and solidarity for those who lost their lives. People conceded that rising Islamophobia had created increased tensions.

"In general there is plenty of tension with religion in France, whether it is Islamophobia or anti-Semitism," said Bernadette Hutson, 22, an account manager at Ogilvy Paris, an advertising agency. "When it comes to Islamophobia in Paris, it is a two-fold thing: It is an immigration issue and also the fact that people here have an idea that you don't display your faith (openly), and they aren't very forgiving (of that). This increases tensions even more."



  1. Really now? After all those news you think it’s wise to write your copy-paste fairy tales and try to boost your visits to your little blog? How pathetic.

  2. I love the sense priorities here. You have a news story (remember ‘Religion News Service’?) about a ghastly act of political violence and most of your final paragraphs are taken up with re-iterating someone’s beef about legislation on a different topic and with some finger-wagging by some krill suspended in the foetid waters of some think tank.

  3. God’s kingdom or heavenly government will soon interfere in man’s affairs, putting an end to all corrupt governments (Daniel 2:44) as well as all wicked ones/terrorists on the planet.

    As Jesus, the Prince of Peace, said when he was on earth, the meek shall inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5) and those meek ones shall enjoy his righteous, loving and just rule as its King (Isaiah 11:1-9).

    They shall also enjoy other great blessings from that kingdom, including no more pain, sickness and disease, old age and death (Revelation 21:1-4)

  4. Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told
    Religion is dong what you are told no matter what is right.

    I’m sick of religion. I can’t understand why anyone bothers with this primitive nonsense.

    Not only is there no good reason to pick a god to believe in,
    there is no evidence that it is good for you to do so !

    For Peace, Culture and The Separation of Church and State

  5. Dearest Islam,

    When twelve people get murdered and your very first thought is how their murders will affect your “community,” you have a SERIOUS problem.

  6. This article starts by pointing out that this satirical magazine “mocked Islam.”
    Now you can be sure that many other religions or groups were likewise made fun of by that magazine . That’s the nature of such publications. But how many in those other groups went on a murderous rampage because of it???
    And Atheist Max take notice. It was just on the radio that one of the world’s leading atheists (Dawkins) condemned the idea that all religions are the same and that all deserved to be lumped with Islam and its virtual nurturing of bloodshed in the name of Allah. There are vital differences.

  7. Max, you just said elsewhere that you have no problem with religion….Make up your mind.

  8. That’s the problem…..and it highlights a paradox:

    If you’re a leader in a Muslim community in a country that just got attacked by Islamist terrorists, and you’re worried about an anti-Muslim backlash, the last thing in the world you want to do is say publicly that you’re worried about an anti-Muslim backlash.

    Instead, what you want to say publicly is that you stand with fellow French in condemning the despicable bombing, you grieve with the family and loved ones of the victims, and you want to see the culprits brought to justice and punished swiftly and appropriately.

    It is a testament to the stubborn and deep-rooted selfishness of some of these leaders that they don’t even think of this.

  9. @Jack,

    I have no problem with people having their religion.

    Just as I have no problem with you having the right to get stinking drunk!

    But that doesn’t mean I support your dragging your drunk self
    into my kitchen and vomiting all over the floor. It is uncivilized.

    Keep your religion – and your reckless drunkenness – to your own self and I’m fine.

    For Peace, Culture and The Separation of Church and State

  10. Max, apparently you don’t keep track of your own words, so here they are:

    “I’m sick of religion. I can’t understand why anyone bothers with this primitive nonsense.”

    “Not only is there no good reason to pick a god to believe in,
    there is no evidence that it is good for you to do so !”

    In other posts elsewhere, you harangued people for believing in a religion and told them to get rid of it.

    That is very different from saying that religion is OK if not imposed on others.

  11. Deacon,

    “And Atheist Max take notice…Dawkins condemned the idea that all religions are the same and that all deserved to be lumped with Islam and its virtual nurturing of bloodshed in the name of Allah. There are vital differences.”

    Not that I care much about Dawkins’ public statements – he is wrong often.

    But he is correct that Islam is different today – Islam is exactly where Christianity was 600 years ago.

    But that shouldn’t be very consoling to Christians.
    Islam is exactly where Catholics were during the Rwandan Genocide 20 years ago. It is exactly where Catholics were during the IRA wars in Ireland only 15 years ago.

    Religion explodes into violence all the time.

    That is Religion’s fatal flaw: “God is more important than Humanity”
    God’s will is more important than the well-being of humans!

    I am a humanist and a humanitarian.
    Worshipping god while you are trying to be a humanist is like spilling dirt on the floor while you are trying to clean it!

    Religion corrupts humanity because these holy books are full of incessantly evil preachments:
    “Love the Lord thy God and put no other Gods before me” – Yahweh (Exodus)

    Well if god demands executions…well, he’s the boss.
    “Execute my enemies in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    It doesn’t matter how you or I interpret these verses – there are no checks and balances on how OTHERS may interpret them.

    Despicable and inhuman.
    And Paris proves it today.

    “Slay them wherever you find them” – (SURAH 9:3)

    Some people seem to think there is a real Allah commanding them to do things. Disgusting.

  12. Jack,

    Replace the word ‘religion’ with ‘drunkenness’ and you are making my point for me.

    “I’m sick of drunkenness. I can’t understand why anyone bothers with this nonsense.”
    “Not only is there no reason to get drunk, there is no evidence that it is good for you”

    I defend your right to get drunk, sir.
    Just don’t vomit in my kitchen.

  13. If muslims want to negate any anti-muslim sentiments that could be created by inhuman acts committed by these zealots in the name of islam they need to do just two things. They need to lead the way in a very vocal condemnation of these kinds of acts in the name of their religion, and they need to declare a very clear differentiation in their beliefs from the belief of these zealots. Playing the victim only serves to feed the “anti-muslim” sentiment. Stand up and scream that these actions are wrong, and this is not my religious beliefs, or sit quietly and pray.

    ADeco, I disagree that this was an “act of political violence”, it was religious violence.

    AMax, simpatico as usual dude.

    Faith based beliefs serve as blinders to reality, and justification for inhumanity.

  14. Wow, Atheist Max…for someone who claims to be…”sick of religion”…, your spend an inordinate amount of time on religious sites (At least on this one)–why is that, exactly? I mean, you rant and rave about this and that, you RARELY contribute anything positive, you chase after so-called ” alternate scholars” who come up with bizarre, outmoded”theories”that you KNOW will NEVER undermine the Christian faith…What’s wrong with you? Don’t you realize that you’re like a modern-day”Don Quixote”, tilting a imaginary windmills you’ve created in your own unmoored imagination? It’s just…sad, really.

  15. Max, you mentioned the Catholic church two times, then proceed to dump all Christians, even ones not aligned with the Catholics. Now isn’t that rather uncharitable of you, after all, if I mentioned how many millions where murdered by atheistic communism and atheistic fascism, you would be very much offended by such a stereotyping by Christians.

    This offence was committed by muslims in the name of islam, thus your beef should be directed towards the Islamic community, not towards Christianity. also, you mentioned the Catholic Church, who you seem to have a beef with, so direct your beef to them, not the rest of us who have nothing to do with that Church. otherwise the many crimes of atheists in the name of evolution (eugenics), and communism (the religion of atheism) will be dumped upon your head as a fellow atheist.

  16. “Imaginary windmills”

    Your assessment is incorrect.
    The threat of religious extremism is real.

    The only way to lessen the danger of religion to all of us
    is to learn what is going on with religion, challenge questionable claims and encourage more secularism.

    By simply typing the word “ATHEIST” and putting it in front of religious people like you
    I am helping that cause in my very tiny way.

  17. @Infidel,

    All religion – including the Agrarian Religious Cults of Stalin, Mao, etc with their land God Czars and Lysenko miracles – is the problem here.

    You do not get a special pass because of Jesus. Only 20 years ago Christian Rwandans slaughtered 800,000 innocents in an explosion of genocidal violence. Faith in superstition is the enemy of humanity.

    Islam claims to be the absolute and final revelation of God. Muslims arrive at this conclusion using a thing called “faith”.
    Christians use the same method. Faith.

    We will not defeat Islamic or other extremists unless we speak the truth.
    Faith is the problem. But people have a right to their religion – as it should be – so these things must be handled by spreading information
    so that religion is eventually abandoned.

    Throwing Jesus at this problem is gasoline – not water!
    We need more Secularism to spread. Fast.

    (Please don’t reply with more slander about atheists – I’ve heard it all and will bore you with comprehensive rebuttals)

  18. You have no choice, Max, but to accede to the reality that religion is legal. You clearly don’t have the power to ban it. But you have a huge problem with it existing and so you do the next best thing, which is to tell people that they are immoral to practice it.

  19. Yes, Fran, the meek shall inherit the earth. In small plots, about 3′ x 6′.

    It’s alarming that after all this time, people can still believe in fairy tales, but billions do and this is one result.

  20. Jack, of course it’s legal. And while Max may be tilting at windmills (trying to convince people to “get rid of religion”) I read nothing suggesting that he favors making it illegal.

    That’s what separation of church and state is all about. People have and should have the right to believe whatever they want – as the old saw goes, ‘you can’t fix stupid’.

  21. LibertyRising-Read Romans 1:18-32. For you to say that the whole world
    just came into existence by chance is being blind. God/Jesus are very real.
    Psalm 14:1 the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel are good to read as well.

  22. It is a testament to the stubborn and deep-rooted selfishness of some of these leaders that they don’t even think of this.

    They get quite a bit of positive feedback from certain elements for being asinine. Starting with the sort of people who wrote and edited this article.

  23. LibertyRising, I’ve read enough Atheist Max posts to know that he is not simply an atheist, but has a boundless obsession against religion, believing it to be a complete cancer on the world, responsible for every thing that is wrong and not a thing that is right in the world.

    You have to be beyond naïve to say that he wouldn’t wipe it out if he had the chance.

    People who talk like him, on that extreme, have indeed tried to wipe it out once they attained power.

    Max is just a board poster, but it’s obvious what he’d like to do if he could.

  24. LibertyRising, I agree. It is hard to believe that “people still believe in fairy tales,” like the notion that the order, complexity, beauty, and elegance of the universe just happened by itself.

    “Once upon a time, children, er, actually before time was created, er, um, I mean, before time created itself, er, um, oh, forget it…..let me start over, once there was nothing and then, matter and energy just appeared! Just like that!”

  25. “All religion – including the Agrarian Religious Cults of Stalin, Mao, etc with their land God Czars and Lysenko miracles – is the problem here.”

    That’s very convenient, Max. You essentially set up a standard that says:


    Under that definition, two of the worst regimes in history–avowedly atheist, determined to wipe out any religion–become “religious.” You, on the other hand, being enlightened, are obviously not religious, like those “religious” Communists.

    Circular reasoning, much?

  26. Jack,

    “just happened by itself.”

    No Jack.
    Zombies did it. That makes the most sense. (Matthew 27:52)

  27. Jack,

    “You have to be beyond naïve to say that he wouldn’t wipe it out if he had the chance…..People who talk like him, on that extreme, have indeed tried to wipe it out once they attained power….it’s obvious what he’d like to do if he could.”

    I wouldn’t hurt a fly. Literally. My wife laughs when I open the windows to let them outside.

    My heroes are Mark Twain, Robert Green Ingersoll, Neil deGrasse Tyson, George Orwell and a bunch of Ex-Priests. No dictators in that bunch!

    I have confidence in humanity.
    People would abandon religion if they only thought a little bit more about it – and that is all I wish for.

    Yes, I hate religion. Look at what it did in Paris yesterday.

    Meanwhile, Jack…
    as you slander Atheists like myself who preach peace and civility
    WHO do you worship and admire:

    “I have come to bring FIRE…What constraints! I am impatient to bring NOT PEACE BUT DIVISION.” – Jesus (Luke 12:49-51)
    “Hate your parents…hate your life, or you are not worthy” – Jesus (Luke 14:26)
    “Eat of my body” and “Be baptized and believe” or “Be condemned to Hell” – Jesus (John 6:53-54) (Mark 16:16).
    “I shall kill her children with Death” – Jesus (REV. 2:23)

    The only reason people believe this nonsense
    is they have been warned by Pastors to not really examine
    how bad it is.

    For Peace, Civility and The Separation of Church and State

  28. @Pajamas,


    No. Atheism is not intrinsically good. It only offers the chance to be better than Religion.

    “Under that definition, two of the worst regimes in history–avowedly atheist…”

    NO. I’m not buying it.
    All Totalitarianism is Theocracy.
    Sorry if that doesn’t register with you, but history has taught this over and over again – And I know too much about it.

    “A totalitarian state is in effect a theocracy, and its ruling caste, in order to keep its position, has to be thought of as infallible. But since, in practice, no one is infallible, it is frequently necessary to rearrange past events in order to show that this or that mistake was not made, or that this or that imaginary triumph actually happened.”
    ― George Orwell, Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters of George Orwell Volume 2 My Country Right or Left 1940 – 1943

    Besides your complaint is not Atheism.
    If you are worried about dictators your concern is the Separation of Church and State. That is how Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hirohito, Hitler, and all the others rose to power. There was no separation.

    To lose Separation would lead to Religion and Total Theocracy – like Iran today.

    Fortunately Americans live under the only Atheistic Constitution in the world:
    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion…”,

    And that is what has kept America from becoming a Totalitarian state.
    Where religion cannot take control, Totalitarianism cannot win.

    Fear those who would rip down Separation of Church and State.
    That is where the Totalitarian enemy is.

    For Peace, Culture and The Separation of Church and State

  29. So you’re a dual personality….wonderful…..

    Sorry I’m not a shrink, but if I were, you’d be one heck of a patient……


  30. The World According to Max:

    (1) If a theistic, theocratic regime commits mass murder, it is the fault of religion.
    (2) If a non-theistic, atheistic regime commits mass murder, it is the fault of religion.
    (3) Nothing is ever the fault of atheism.
    (4) Everything is always the fault of religion.

    If that is not the opposite of critical thinking, nothing is.

  31. Palamas says, All Religion is Bad; Atheism is Good.
    I believe we are beginning to see in the USA what removing God from our society results in. We have a country that is literally on the fast track to perdition. When Almighty God is incorporated into a society, there is stability, and protection. When God is removed from society, God removes his protection, and stability. That is what we are beginning to see. France’s government for the most part has separated itself from Christianity; it has now fully embraced secular humanism. This is a false religion in its own right.

    Yes there have been battles over the years about which religion is best if there is to be a church/state relationship. And I do believe that the Church has learned to stay out of those church/state pseudo relationships. But all in all, when standing back and looking at the broad consequences of the various religions, we can clearly see that more rights are given when Jesus Christ is loved, honored, and worshiped. The results speak for themselves. There will never be perfection in this world, but when we invite Jesus in to our lives, societies, and countries, things will eventually settle down. When the 10 Commandments are followed, and the two Commandments of Love are adhered to, ultimately societies remain in peace, and offer more liberties, including religious liberties, to all.

    By the way, I was surprised to learn just how many young people are actually worshiping the devil in Europe. There are literally millions of them. I am shocked at how people can not only throw away this life, but also their eternal lives to that destructive being. Come Lord Jesus; it is time. This world has thrown you away, and now it is a mess.

  32. Jack,

    I don’t mind having to repeat this 100 times.

    Your primary concern should be
    The Separation of Church and State.

    “There Is No God” is a religious claim.
    It is called HARD Atheism and it is not my position.
    Marxism was enforced Hard Atheism; a Dogmatic Religious Claim!

    I have never made that claim!

    I share the most common Atheist position:
    I don’t claim to know if God exists so I am Agnostic.
    And I do not believe any Gods are real.
    Mine is not a religious claim.

    Meanwhile an Atheist Constitution protects your rights,
    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion…”

    That line is the best protection from dictatorship. It prevents Religious claims (like the Hard Atheism, Sharia Law, etc – which you are so terrified of) from becoming law of the land.

    Furthermore, Stalin used Hard Atheism – which has a religious dogmatic claim – to eliminate the competition to burnish his own Cult.

    Without Separation of Church and State
    There is no safeguard against religious claims.

    North Korea, Pol Pot, Mao, etc DID THE SAME THING.
    They made national laws forbidding OTHER religion so they could install their own Hard Atheism – it clears the way for a new religious Cult of Dictatorship.

    Your enemy is not Atheists. It is the religious impulse!

    Your enemy are those who would destroy the Separation of Church and State to install religious decrees.

    And stop telling me
    how I support mass murder – while you sing the praises of Killers Yahweh and Jesus (“drown him with a millstone”)
    Catholic Rwanda is my eternal rebuttal to your nonsense.
    Ask Father Anatole Serromba how many other Priests shared in his personal slaughter of 2000 innocent men, women and children all at the direction of the Parable of the Minas : “Execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    For Atheism, Culture and The Separation of Church and State

  33. @Greg,

    Atheism is not ‘good’ – but it is better than religion.
    And it gives us the chance to behave better.

    Atheism is the lack of belief in a God –
    It is not the denial of God nor is it the denial of your right to worship a god if you want to.

  34. Jack,

    “(3) Nothing is ever the fault of atheism.”

    Atheism = the lack of Belief in a God.
    That is all it is.

    How can you blame lack of a belief in a god on anything?
    If someone drowns at the beach do you blame it on a lack of belief in mermaids?!

    “Hard Atheism” is different from Atheism.

    Hard Atheism IS a religion – it has a religious dogma which says “There are no Gods.” – Any enforcement of ANY religious belief is what leads to mass murder.

    You are confused because for some reason
    You cannot grasp the concept of a ‘religious claim.’

    To make matters worse you conflate non belief into Fascism!
    As if someone who has no belief in God is automatically obsessed with enforcing it as a vast dictatorial police action!

    Jack has been listening to Pastors instead of thinking for himself.

  35. AtheistMax said, Atheism is the lack of belief in a God –
    It is not the denial of God nor is it the denial of your right to worship a god if you want to
    Well tell that to the people of Russia, or any of its neighboring countries that were taken over by atheistic communism back in the 40’s and 50’s. Many of their old churches are still being used for anything other than worship, and many people spent their entire lives in gulags when they would not deny Jesus.

  36. “Hello Mr. Spontaneous Generation.”

    You mean the Genesis account.

    Projection, its not just for movies anymore.

    Did you ever fix the problem with the infinite regression? Sure “turtles all the way down” works for you but its not the most satisfying answer.

  37. Every time the “how about the communists” trope gets trotted out, all it does is demonstrate the ignorance of the speaker. Greg, learn a little about history.

    Christianity was no great shakes in Russia before the communists and it is not much better after it.

    The Orthodox church reveled in the poverty and ignorance of the population, encouraged massacres of Jews, Muslims and indigenous Central Asia peoples, and was in the pocket of the Czars for centuries. Christianity did nothing for the average adherent in Russia other than divert what little resources they had towards fancy accoutrements.Now they support atrocities against fellow Russians and support the current dictatorship.

    So what was the difference between Soviet Communism and a theocratic state like Iran? Certainly not in the way personal beliefs were handled. Both had their own version of state religion. Both exported it by force of arms. Both believe the state is the ultimate authority which must crush all personal liberties.

    Of course where are those soviet style atheists now? Nowhere to be found. Where are the violent religious fanatics. Everywhere.

  38. All of america, and the world stand with you france and the parisians we are apalled and deeply angred by this horrific display of cowarldy agression by relgious extremists and my deepest condolences to all familys involved on both sides no one will ever be silenced by this act no one is afraid to speak out and speak their mind we will not be terrorized into silence if those who do not want to shate the world with us and leave in peace and freedom then we do not have to share the world with them either..America stands with you! No matter the cost these cowards will never win!

  39. Greg,

    Atheism is just the lack of belief in a God.

    Hard Atheism which you are referring to, is a religious claim that “God does not exist.”
    When you enforce Hard Atheism with the Military you have
    Enforcement of a Religion – in effect, a Theocracy.

    Stalin, Pol Pot, North Korea – all are Theocracies. That is why they are so similar to Iran. All totalitarianism is Theocratic.

    Regular Atheism (non-belief in God claims) is what runs the United States.
    Which has the only Atheist Constitution in the world:
    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion..”

    Separation of Church and State accomplishes two major things:
    1. Religious claims cannot become law.
    2. Religious claims cannot be ENFORCED.

    That is what keeps America safe from Athiest, Islamic, Christian, Marxist religions.

    The major threat to the Separation of Church and State is coming from the Religious Right – The evangelicals threaten the very thing you are afraid of losing. That is why it is urgent to speak up in favor of Separation.

    For Peace, Culture and The Separation of Church and State

  40. Liberty,

    That man and all his governments can fix the world on ALL fronts on their own (including getting rid of terrorists) has definitely proven to be a fairy tale and will continue to do so as time goes on.

    Of course, false religion has also been a major factor in the taking of human lives by getting involved in politics and wars; and it will also receive its deserved judgment from

  41. Atheist: Man left to his own accord becomes his own god. The only thing that keeps man from becoming an atheistic communist seeking supreme rule over all people, is that he is still accountable to God Almighty upon his death, and that is the humbling aspect that keeps fools from reigning supreme.

    Man left to his own humanistic self, seeks power. That is what self centered atheistic rulers eventually gravitate towards. And once they have power, they want more, and who are they accountable to upon death? Well according to their religion (atheism), nobody.

    Regarding the Muslim terrorists, well, they certainly believe in God, but to them God is a God to Fear. However, Jesus Christ has revealed that God is a God of Love, He wishes to be our Father. And to all those who Love him, eternal Love is their reward. As for those who alienate themselves from God, well, that is their choice, but I do not even want to think of eternal existence apart from Him: what is the video on You Tube? Shawn Weed’s Hell Testimony? And what is the other one? Tortured in Hell & Lived to Tell ? Whew those two will scare the daylights out of you. In that regard the Muslims are actually correct, and God is a God to fear.

  42. Greg,
    “Man left to his own accord becomes his own god.”

    where did you get such a silly claim?

    Jonas Salk didn’t believe in God and he discovered the Polio Vaccine and gave it away to billions of people.

    Oscar Schindler didn’t believe in God and he freed thousands of Jews from the Nazis.

    Paul Newman didn’t believe in God and he raised $370 Million for children in need. He gave away 100% of the profits from “Newman’s Own” to those children.

    Most of the Doctors at Doctors Without Borders are Atheists – yet they are out there saving lives every day. 22,000 volunteers!

    And you want to tell me that Christians like Pat Robertson are somehow humble servants of the Lord while he spews venom against Gays, Drug Addicts, Women’s rights….!

    Funny how humans who claim to ‘serve’ God
    actually find a God who serves them!

    Religion is a man-made system to help vain people think themselves mighty important.

    “Get out of my way, I am doing the Lord’s work” – Osama Bin Laden

  43. Atheist: Man becomes his own god when he forgets who he owes his existence to. Atheism is a religion unto itself. Man worships man through Atheism. I’ve don’t really watch Pat Robertson, but it sounds like you are interpreting his positions against the gay agenda, and other elements of the larger leftist agenda as hate. Simply stated, Jesus has given us the recipe for peace & justice in this world, according to the natural law. Whereas, to practice the very things Jesus said would lead to the destruction of society is the work of the devil, and when we cooperate with those things, we align ourselves with the evil one–leading us not only to an empty life in this world (one that never finds true happiness), but also to eternal hell after death, which is eternal separation from Almighty God. I’ve read many descriptions of hell, and they are all very similar. People who spend a lifetime ignoring God find their home there. It is a place of suffering, and agony. One of the visionaries of Medjugorje described it this way: Marija: “Yes, it’s a large space with a big sea of fire in the middle. … I particularly noticed a beautiful young girl. But when she came near the fire, she was no longer beautiful. She came out of the fire like an animal … I choose not to think about hell. The self-chosen suffering there is beyond your ability to comprehend.” Tough stuff, but good that heaven is giving us those warnings.

  44. “Man becomes his own god when he stops believing in God”

    Do I become my own Leprechaun
    if I don’t believe in leprechauns?

    “Man worships man through Atheism.”
    No. I treasure Separation of Church and State – which is not a man, but it is the freedom to be a man.

    “Jesus has given us the recipe for peace & justice in this world, according to the natural law.”
    How Totalitarian and Dictatorial all religion is! What is natural or ‘just’ about killing innocent people to protect your groupthink?
    “Execute them in front of me” – JESUS (Luke 19:27)

    “work of the devil…”
    Prove it.

    “…which is eternal separation from Almighty God.”
    We are apparently separated from many things, since no one has ever been able to find mermaids either.

    “I’ve read many descriptions of hell…”
    But not by anyone who can prove it.
    And if we believed every silly dream of some little girl we would all be worshipping Justin Bieber!

    “ignoring God…is a place of suffering, and agony.”
    Not to any atheist I know.
    TOTAL human Agony and suffering everyday for everyone
    appears to be the sole objective of every religion ever invented.
    “Hate your life or you are not worthy of me” – JESUS (Luke 14:26)
    What pathetic abjection. Mind rot.

  45. Atheist. You’ll come around some day. You will see that God is simply God. He has given us this human life as a precursor to the next one. Those who seek him, will enjoy eternal life with Him; those who do not will suffer for all eternity at the hands of the devil. As for proving that the devil exists? Well just look around; the world is literally on fire with vile hatred. It is everywhere. He gains access to us outright through the occult, games like the Ouija board, atheism, and other channels. He gains control of us wherever and however he can. I’ve read too many accounts of people who at one point had given their lives & souls to the devil, and when they tried to break free from his clutches, they found themselves in a war. No, the devil is quite real, but for Christians, who live the Christian life–remaining free of grave sin–the devil is kept at a distance by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, and his angels, especially St. Michael.

  46. Sorry, Larry, but I don’t share your inability to believe that a being called God could be without beginning or end. To the contrary, nothing makes sense with it, and Him.

  47. Max, your response is pure sophistry and even you know that. I doubt that you yourself even believe your own BS.

  48. It’s too bad that nobody’s alive today who lived under both the Czars and the Soviets…..Decades ago, there were. Jews in particular, along with Pentecostal Christians, testified how things were so bad under the Czar, they couldn’t imagine it getting any worse….but then, as they said, things got worse, horribly worse, unbelievably worse, after the Communists took over.

    Too many people in the West have a soft spot for Marxism because it sounds so nice on paper. We need to take a cold-eyed, unsentimental look at it and view its horrific, genocidal results.

  49. Arguing with Max is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

    So why do we all do it?

    Maybe each of us believes that somewhere in Max’s soul is still left a truth-telling person who respects actual objective reality rather than trying to manipulate it, and really wants to be whole, rather than at war with himself and with the real world.

  50. Larry, the cowards will win if we are not committed to defeat them on every front.

  51. Max will “come around” when one day, he wakes up and realizes that (1) the theistic faith he rejected was a childish one that collapsed like a house of cards once the real world hit (2) the atheism he embraced is equally childish and he can only maintain it by lying to himself and to others on any known facts which contradict it and (3) he needs to reject both mindless theism and mindless atheism and embrace a credible, adult faith which doesn’t deny the tears and sorrows of reality but accepts them, works through them, and deals with them with honesty and integrity.

  52. Dear Greg and Jack,

    Sorry you have such worries about Ouija Boards and Zombies (Matthew 27:52)

    The problem with religion is not some ‘feeling about god’ – most religious people are harmless and don’t care about any details about religion.

    You demonstrate why religion is so dangerous.

    You are both so terrified to be honest that you can’t think straight.

    You are afraid that even questioning a god character in a book, he will hear your doubts and you will lose your chance to live forever!

    You are apparently not able to contemplate that if such a god were to exist, he cannot forbid you from using your mind in any way which He designed it to function. And doubting HEARSAY is the best way to determine the truth of something.

    This liquid god is so easy to shape at our will and so easy to construct in the mind that some Christians actually think it is the same god as Allah – and they feel good saying so! They say, “We all have one God” and you are probably okay debating that.

    Yet if I suggest the god is probably not real you disintegrate into a panic and you flail around like a fish out of water.

    For Peace, Positive Atheism and The Separation of Church and State

  53. @Jack,

    Atheism = “I lack belief in God” – this is NOT a religious claim.

    Hard Atheism = “God does not exist” – this IS a religious claim.

    This is not sophistry.
    I have no doubt other people watching these comments
    understand this simple difference.

    Enforcing a religious claim on other people is called FASCISM.
    There is no possible way to enforce Hard Atheism as long as there is SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

    “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion…”

    That goes for Hard Atheism as well as Christianity.
    But if you get rid of Separation, all bets are off!

    For Peace, Positive Atheism and The Separation of Church and State

  54. Jack,

    “respects actual objective reality rather than trying to manipulate it…”

    Quit trying to condescend to the Atheists like me and answer the question.

    How do Zombies fit into your ‘objective reality’?

    “Zombies came out of their graves and walked through…” (Matthew 27:52)

    I want to know how that comports with objective reality.

    I want to know when you CHOSE to believe in it and how much objective reality you had to dismiss to get to your choice!

    In the meantime, keep your religion to yourself and out of our Laws.
    You have every right to believe in Zombies.
    Don’t force it on me.

  55. Atheist:

    Just as I cannot definitively prove that God exists to you, you cannot definitively prove that he does not exist. However, everyone who has walked the earth and went to his death denying God is now in a permanent state of existence that is very very bad. Saint Faustina was given to see and experience hell, and believe me, she was very sane, and the place she visited is very bad. I would challenge you to Google, Saint Faustina Vision of Hell ,and then reply.

  56. I already know all about Sister Faustina – I was a Catholic for 50 years.

    Supposedly she spoke to Jesus and saw Hell according to my grandmother. And she was Polish – right?

    And I’m surprised you don’t believe in leprechauns, too.

    Saint Faustina is something to consider
    just as you should consider Bigfoot.

    I told you – I do NOT claim that God does not exist.
    I only say I do not believe your claim that he does exist.

    I say only that I do not believe.
    And I notice that you have no evidence.

    If God wants me to believe he exists he can fix that very easily.
    If Hell exists, and I end up in Hell – I shall go there as an honest man who feared nothing.

  57. Atheist, you cannot have it both ways, you either believe God exists, or you believe he does not exist. Either way, you are stating a belief. And yes, Sister Faustina is who you stated, the one who was given to see the life of the soul, and how it pertains to Almighty God … and I would advise you to read her depiction of hell. That place is very very bad, and its main occupants, are atheists, and it lasts for ever, and ever, and ever, and ever…

  58. @Greg,

    “Can’t have it both ways…you either believe God exists, or you believe he does not exist. Either way, you are stating a belief.”

    God does exist, or God does not exist.
    I do not believe God exists.

    I cannot state that I believe God does not exist – because there may be a god somewhere which has been unproven or an argument I have not heard.

    Don’t you put words in my mouth.
    Meanwhile I notice you have no evidence whatsoever to show me a god. The burden is entirely on you to show this god who you claim exists.

  59. ” I would advise you to read her depiction of hell. That place is very very bad, and its main occupants, are atheists, and it lasts for ever, and ever, and ever, and ever…”

    Only a complete fascist could construct such a place.
    Please tell your god where he can stick his hell. I consider him worse than Hitler.

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  61. Greg, you do realize that critical thinking is not an asset of yours, right?. I don’t have time for futile debates with ignorance, There can be no constructive discussion though a comment section, but what can someone observe here is the lack of thinking with a clear mind. Sorry Greg,but stop debating ’cause the only thing you do is expose your lack of common sense!
    So stop trying making a point with people who can see things clearer ’cause you look silly !

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