abortion roe v. wade
An anti-abortion protester holds a stop sign and the Ten Commandments on the sidewalk in front of the U.S. Supreme Court on May 14, 2001 in Washington, D.C.

Americans prefer ‘pro-choice’ label by biggest margin in seven years

abortion roe v. wade

An anti-abortion protester holds a stop sign and the Ten Commandments on the sidewalk in front of the U.S. Supreme Court on May 14, 2001 in Washington, D.C.

(RNS) Despite Americans' shifting opinions on a range of moral and ethical issues, abortion foes have been encouraged by numbers showing that opposition to abortion rights appeared to have resisted serious slippage, and was even gaining traction.

But a Gallup poll released Friday (May 29) shows that may be changing: 50 percent of all Americans now identify as “pro-choice,” the first statistically significant lead over the “pro-life” label, which came in at 44 percent, since 2008.

The data suggest this could signal an end to the seesaw battle that has characterized opinions on abortion over the past few years.

“The pro-choice view is not as prevalent among Americans as it was in the mid-1990s, but the momentum for the pro-life position that began when Barack Obama took office has yielded to a pro-choice rebound,” Gallup’s Lydia Saad wrote in an analysis of the figures, which are from a survey conducted in early May.

“That rebound has essentially restored views to where they were in 2008; today's views are also similar to those found in 2001,” she said.

A Vox poll taken earlier this year also found that more Americans identified as "pro-choice" (32 percent) rather than "pro-life" (26 percent).

But it also found that 39 percent -- a plurality -- reject the labels, with 21 percent identifying as neither and 18 percent identifying as both.

Results from a May 26 Gallup survey on Americans' shifting attitudes on a range of hot-button issues showed a uniformly leftward march since 2001, especially on gay and lesbian acceptance.

But those who viewed abortion as “morally acceptable” increased only 3 percent over that period, to 45 percent. An equal number said it was morally wrong.

The newly released data, however, suggest that if Americans continue to have moral qualms about abortion they are increasingly inclined to want to protect the legal right to abortion.

Some 42 percent of respondents said abortions should be legal “under any circumstances” (29 percent) or in “most circumstances” (13 percent) while only 19 percent said that abortions should be illegal “in all circumstances.” The poll showed 36 percent said the procedure should be legal “in only a few circumstances.”

The shift comes as states have increasingly been restricting access to abortion, with a debate also growing over bills to ban any abortion past the 20-week mark of a pregnancy.

Yet it’s not clear that the shift to a "pro-choice" preference will herald a truce in the political battle over abortion that is sure to play a role in the 2016 presidential campaign: Democrats are still most likely to identify as "pro-choice" (68 percent) and Republicans as "pro-life" (31 percent).

Gallup noted in its analysis that it does not define the "pro-choice" and "pro-life" terms for respondents, but says that “their answers to a separate question about the legality of abortion indicate that those favoring the pro-choice label generally support broad abortion rights, while pro-life adherents mostly favor limited or no abortion rights.”



  1. I always thought “fetus worshiper” was more appropriate than “Pro-Life”.

  2. Most people are just sick of the argument. Let women murder their own children as they choose. If they don’t view it as such by now, then the law can be seen in the future as an encourager of genocide, ala Nazi Germany. For those who are horrified by abortion, they will give fruit to the future’s society by banning it.

  3. There were Christians who were strong supporters of Nazi Germany. And Nazi Germany was led by one of them. Speaking of horrors, Christianity is one.

  4. Once again, the preferred history that Adolf Hitler, staunchly Roman Catholic, ruled over Nazi Germany and the Holocaust with the approval of the Church. Public schools are just dating/drug centers now, I guess.

  5. Indeed the Anti-Life groups have re-branded themselves as prochoice. And most slack-jawed American followers are hoodwinked into thinking that it is a good. That is, of course, until the doctors start coming at them with “compassionate” needles when they are no longer “contributors” to society.

  6. And I should care about the polls because? To a Christian the polls shouldn’t matter. Do right! Do right before the Lord. Walk in faith, abide in His Word through the power of the Holy Spirit regardless whether or not its popular, and it seldom is. I am blessed to be free from caring about what others think and do. There is great freedom and power in seeking what God wants and not concerning oneself with what man wants. Receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and turn away from sin. Then you will know His awesome peace and joy and be set free of the influence of the world around you. God Bless

  7. JR and Greg,

    Do you guys have vaginas? Would you have to carry an unwanted child if you were raped or molested?

    If the answer is no to the first question then shut the hell up.

  8. Hi Candy-Man, such vulgar language you have. What people don’t realize is that most women who’ve had abortions, have a hurt that lasts a lifetime, and not just 9 months. I’ve heard the testimonies. Very bad, very bad, for both the mother and the child.

  9. Fortunately the world is more open now, and many students are able and allowed to see through the foul bigotry of JR and his Klan.

  10. Actually, Greg1, your side was the more vocal with its “brand”, and with its deceptive marketing, and you still lost.

  11. A boy named Sue weighs in…..and we know who that boy is. It’s rather obvious.

    Another day, another name…..

    On an infinitely more important issue, good post, Mark.

  12. Uh, Candy Man, that argument died with bell bottoms and leisure suits. You’re going to have to do better than that…..especially with the ubiquity of ultrasound video.

  13. Nothing wrong with being a class act, “Sue.” Try it sometime.

  14. Greg1, that’s often the case, but not always. Some people double down in their original decision and become hard and calloused.

  15. It’s funny to watch leftists herald the slightest uptick in support for one of their issues as if it’s the final word, while ignoring the many times the opposite side experiences a similar uptick for one of theirs.

    On the abortion issue, Americans’ views have been remarkably unchanged for decades — Most people want some restrictions on abortion and are generally closest to one of two views: illegal except in cases of rape, incest, mother’s life endangered, and health issues if serious……or…..legal for the first three to four months.

    The majority of people have always rejected the radical-left, on-demand view, ie any time, any place, for any reason.

    But the big picture is that people just aren’t getting nearly as many abortions now as in prior decades…..the demand for it has fallen for a number of reasons. Most kids look at ultrasound on the Internet and that seals the deal.

  16. I know one lady who is as you stated. It is interesting that she digs in her heels, on the subject, takes her children to Pro-abortion marches, etc., but then goes crazy when she hears of someone spanking their child, in a way, a type of schizophrenia. I think the whole incident is one that has left some deep scars. From what I’ve seen and experienced, the only way to truly get past it is by facing it, and asking God for forgiveness. Those are the women who find peace eventually, knowing they have a little one praying for them in heaven. This world is heartless sometimes.

  17. Did he lose? The goal of being pro-life is ultimately to see the number of abortions reduced…..and that has happened. I’m also pro-life when it comes to the law, but if people keep voluntarily refusing to get abortions, that’s fine, too. I’d like to see the day that abortion becomes such an odious thing in people’s minds that the rate is reduced even further. If that can be done even if the law still allows it almost totally, that’s okay with me.

  18. Everything about abortion is tragic. God should have come up with a better plan.
    Unwanted children, defective children, children having children, men getting off the hook. I lay the blame on God.
    I was sent to an orphanage at age five. I only stayed a year, but it made quite an impression on me. (I still have dreams about it.) At age twenty two I worked as a jailer in a juvenile detention center, for a year. In my practice I represented many poor young souls who had had no real chance to lead a “normal life”. It is easy to shoot off at the mouth- much harder to help out.

  19. She takes her kids to pro-choice rallies…..there’s something about the leftist mind that is remarkably free of any sense of or feel for irony. I guess it’s like being in a cult, where critical thinking is verboten and people are rewarded for being sheep or cattle.

  20. The utter idiocy of a human being choosing to support abortion is almost satanic. They do not seem to have the mental or ethical capacity to realize that THEY were once a fetus and became them. And in stark scientific fact, they were them from the moment of conception. IF, not murdered for the convenience of their mother to be able to celebrate her life from the womb to the choice of killing her unborn.

    We are witnessing the rise of Sodom and Gomorrah on a western world scale.

    And from reading the Bible’s incredibly accurate representation of the condition of mankind, how can any sane person be surprised.

    Any sane person.

  21. Hey, bullying Rick Santorum guy . . .

    Your history must have been guided by the intake of mushrooms. The Nazi’s hated Christians and Christianity as much as any LGBT activist does today. And like the LGBT community, they wormed their way into some Christian places and then “evolved” (Mr President) from there into total control of society. They may have used a different symbol on their flag but it’s impossible not to see the comparison of the National Socialists of 20th century Germany taking control of society and what is happening in the secularism/LGBT movement of today.

  22. Greg1,

    It IS GOOD for many Americans. Now men can get their rocks off and know that some women will never be the wiser for being used.

    Feminism is the best trick ever played on women.

    And of course it seemed so easy too.

  23. Sue, what planet are you referring to? Here on earth, the humanists have been completely in control of the secularist and progressive (REDUNDANCY ALERT) mind for almost a hundred years. And Hollywood has debauched the western world for just about as long.

    Your side has been so loud it is now common culture. Like living next to railroad tracks. You just became numbed to the life.

  24. No Sue, the stain on society is the murder of hundreds of millions of children that were killed for convenience sake.

    What secularism really is is the return of Molech worship.

    But I wouldn’t expect a liberal to know anything about history. You have to actually read books not authored by your leftist professor.

  25. I agree with your first point…..of course it’s satanic, because it’s throwing your heart and brain away in one fell swoop, but the good news is that for most people, this is just theoretical…..the good news is that abortions have gone down, not up over the past generation and most people, even those calling themselves pro-choice, wouldn’t get an abortion in a million years. They see what a “fetus” looks like and that it’s not a blob.

    So I don’t agree that we’re in Sodom and Gomorrah Land…..not yet, at least.

    Most people behave themselves a lot better in every area of life than they did in the terrible decade following the late 1960s. There’s just no comparison. Every form of social pathology is lower now than then.

    The paradox is that things seem worse today because the shrinking number of bad or dysfunctional people are pushing the envelope harder and farther than before. There are less of them, but they are more emboldened and brazen about it….

  26. Really Sam? Every single behavior you listed is the fault AND GUILT of the person committing it. The weird thing about libs, progressives and common secularists, is that that are so much like the mobs of Sodom it’s tragically laughable.

    Metaphor? Myth? The Bible is a time machine that shows us what human beings are throughout time.

    We are just witnessing an abomination that makes desolation.

    Oops, there’s goes another leftie to the escape of suicide.

    Blaming God for what people do is based on the leftist demands for a tyrant to run society.

    God is a free choice pal. But not free like unaccountable welfare and “born that way” excuses.

  27. I think the abortion rate will generally go down farther in the coming years, even if we retain the most radical pro-abortion law in the western world. People now know what it is and they want no part of it. They fear being seen as “judgmental” so they are uncomfortable with strong legal restrictions, but nobody today besides the radical left fringes are celebrating abortion as a liberating sacrament.

  28. Trying to get a hard lefty to understand the connection to Molech worship would like trying to teach my Labrador how to sing Handel’s Hallelujah chorus.

  29. Americans have been trying very hard to catch up to the decadence of Germans. The perversion on the internet and Hollywood is the porno machine. Porno means the DEVIL’S WORK in Greek. It has taken over the Country while some are laughing all the way to the bank. This has led to the destruction of the family and society.

  30. @jack,

    I know. But a Labrador retriever isn’t as dangerous as a leftist/secularist/atheist. Dogs know right from wrong. These people react to subliminal messages. It’s how they came to be what they are. Sooner or later, their desires for deviance may get them fascinated enough to actually google Molech Worship and maybe see that modern day abortion is the same human sacrifice of children and for the same benefits of the “parents” as was practiced before the Iphone 6 was advertised. You can’t expect a secularized Westerner to just do the right thing. That’s a hate crime to them now. And we are quickly entering the world where speech is outlawed that makes a secularist feel guilty about something.

    Even I still hold out hope for most people.

  31. See what I mean? Take Susie here, a product of 13 years of Public High School, calling murdering your own child a liberty.

  32. Oh, so its the vagina that makes the decision to have sex and then kill the baby. You ladies need to start thinking with your brains. What do you vote with?

  33. It’s worth noting that in addition to the shift toward pro-choice, the pro-life people often support abortion rights, redefining the term (pro-life) for themselves. This is shown in the recent Hart Reasearch Poll that found that a good third of people saying they are pro-life support Roe v. Wade. Adding them to the pro-choice side puts the actual numbers morel ike 65% pro-choice to 29% pro-life.

    I’ve noticed this among my friends too – a good number of them, mainly women, support abortion rights while saying they are pro-life.

    From the poll:
    nearly all of the “pro-choice” respondents voiced support for Roe–but so did a large plurality of self-described pro-lifers. When asked whether the Supreme Court should overturn Roe v. Wade, …more than a third of the pro-lifers–some 35%–said no.

  34. Be Rave,
    Creationists do not hold God accountable for his creation. They propose “free will”- whatever that means. We do make choices, and we do suffer predictable
    and unpredictable consequences from them, but what are the bad choices based on? You say the devil (more magic!). I say desires, (a product of creation) and reason (another product of creation).
    Thirteen year olds have desire, but little understanding or experience. If they do not have supervision, all kinds of terrible things may, and probably will, happen to them.Your God is at fault, irresponsible, and cruel.

    “Oh, my father believes in God, he just does not like him very much.”
    Game of Thrones

  35. JR, your insults simply reveal the weakness of your position, and are quite telling about you.

  36. Jack, you are merely twisting data to suit your agenda.That’s a sneaky, dishonest tactic. You can’t ascribe the decline to that factor alone. Better availability and awareness of birth control, and education about birth control, is a big, salient factor here and there are others involved.

  37. Your insult is noted, Jack. Like your buddy JR, you have little else to offer.

  38. “I guess it’s like being in a cult, where critical thinking is verboten and people are rewarded for being sheep or cattle.”

    That describes Christianity in a nutshell.

  39. Jack and BB, your attacks on the person and stereotypes such as “these people” are noted, and are quite telling re the weakness of your position.

    And Jack, I’m not a “lefty”. I’m a capitalist. Your religion is clearly not your only delusion.

  40. Jewish law has always allowed abortion if the life or the health of the mother was threatened. Of course, that can interpreted in many different ways. That is the Orthodox position, not just the more liberal denominations.

    I don’t see much concern for these babies after they are born by the anti-abortion posters here.

    You all need to reread the Torah verses on Sodom and Gomorrah. You have not understood them properly.

  41. I think Exodus 21:22-25 is pretty clear, at least how the Jewish Religion understood a baby in the womb back then. But I would say that any religion would see that in an emergency situation, the baby would be removed from the mother, in attempt to save both. But those situations are few and far between.

  42. No, those situations may be few and far between now, but when the rabbis came to their conclusion, childbirth was very dangerous.

    I remind you that the Jewish religion is a rabbinic religion. It is how the rabbis interpreted those verses that prevails.

  43. Even if the American public are going pro choice, two things matter:
    1. makeup of the supreme court. It has corrupt justices like John Roberts.
    2. what the Koch brothers and other billionaires want. I think they want cheap labour, and a dumbed-down Christian populace.

  44. What I am saying is that those situations are few and far between in our day, with C-Section removal and the like. It is very hard to outright justify abortion in our day from this perspective.

  45. “The Nazi’s hated Christians and Christianity as much as any LGBT activist does today.”

    Hey, uneducated pretender to ‘bravery’:

    Just skipping the fact that every SS belt buckle had “GOD WITH US” stamped on it, you might try reading a book that isn’t the bible, like this one that shows your statement to be unfounded and factless:
    “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” – Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf”.

    Obviously it was YOUR history that was guided by the intake of mushrooms with a big side order of stupid.

  46. It has happened in Ireland. It may be rare, but an Indian woman living in Ireland died because they refused to give her a life-saving abortion. Another case in Ireland is an 11 year old rape victim who was not allowed an abortion. At that age, childbirth would be dangerous.

    There are case where women are in a coma and they are pregnant and there have been court fights in the US about whether they should be allowed an abortion which would improve their chance of recovery.

  47. Susan, Ireland is Ireland. But here in the USA, if a woman is in danger of losing her life, an effort should be made to save both the mother and child. We are too technologically advanced to say that we have to kill the child to save the mother. Of course the baby should be removed from his/her mother, but an effort should be made to save the baby. But there is no reason to abort a baby just to abort a baby.

  48. JR,

    “schools are just dating/drug centers now…”

    You are aware that most drug dealers and drug users are Christians.

  49. BB,

    “they wormed their way….”

    You judge everyone and everything. And you pretend this is loving – because you have been sold a lie.

    “God, I thank You that I am not like other people…” — (Luke 18:11)

    There will be no rest in the world, and no practical solutions to anything – as long as these ridiculous philosophies keep trying to seize power.

    Religion poisons everything.

  50. Roedy,
    It is irresponsible to make unfounded accusations such as “…the supreme court. It has corrupt justices like John Roberts.” I would prefer fewer Catholics, but the President and the Senate make the choices.

  51. Utter idiocy is thinking that all women have to take your opinion seriously when making decisions as to their most personal aspects of their life.

    Such delusions of grandeur are par for the course for people with no concept of personal privacy, boundaries, or respect for the lives of others. You don’t have to agree with a woman’s decision to keep or not keep a pregnancy. Its not your decision to make. Her body, her choice.

    You can make your half-baked claim that such choices may or may not be moral, but you are absolutely insane to believe such opinions should have the power to affect others.

    Fact of the matter is abortion rates are lowest and safest when legal and easily accessible. Abortion bans or heavy restrictions simply create an underground market for “family planning tourism” and for dangerous hackwork. But then again the lives of born women has never been a concern for the fetus worshiping crowd.

  52. Mandatory ultrasound?

    You mean involuntary and forcible violation of a woman’s private parts with a large foreign object by doctors in a procedure decried in the medical profession as LACKING NECESSITY. All in an effort to intimidate them into changing their decisions.

    Again, presumptuous men thinking that women are unable to make decisions for themselves. Therefore women have to be forced into action through coercion.

    So Jack thinks he should make all decisions for women.

  53. They think that their Christian faith entitles them to make decisions for everyone.

    To decry secularism is to declare your love of theocracy. BB and Jack hate democratic freedoms. We get that.

  54. Very poor excuses for the inevitable damages an anti-abortion policy creates. The doctors were prevented from carrying out medically necessary procedures because they were afraid of the state’s coercion of the profession. They were more scared of being prosecuted for violating the extremely arbitrary laws than saving lives.

    The whole anti-abortion position is about ignoring the personal decisions of women in favor of arbitrary and capricious outside authority. Its about signing over rights of privacy to moralistic blowhards with no connection to reality.

    “But there is no reason to abort a baby just to abort a baby.”

    Its not your decision to ever make unless you become pregnant. You are laboring under the delusion that people should be forced to accept your opinion in regards to their lives.

  55. Larry, it sounds like you have quite a case of projection, but that’s nothing new with you. You’re the one on your hammer-and-sickle soapbox, dictating to women how they’re all supposed to feel or think on any issue.

    As either you do know or should know, there is no gender gap on abortion. Women are no more or less likely than men are to be either pro-choice or pro-life. To assume otherwise shows either your ignorance of more than four decades of polling data or a mendacity that believes it’s alright to lie in service to your extremism.

    But more to the point, both pro-choice and pro-life women are quite happy to enlist male support for their respective position. They do it all the time. Neither side has ever truly said, “all men out of the room. We don’t want your support.”

    Even if you are supremely ignorant of polling data, surely you know this.

  56. “Sue,” I’m not attributing the decline in abortions to just one thing, although it is clear that seeing an unborn baby via ultrasound has had a real effect on Millennials. A picture or video is often worth a thousand words, and the cold, clinical, bloodless words of pro-abortion fanatics ring hollow when a person sees on the Internet a video of an unborn child via ultrasound.

    Once you see it, you can never go back. You can still say you feel queasy about a law against it, but if enough people turn against it, you won’t need a law…..any more than you would need a law against eating raw sewage or asbestos sandwiches.

  57. Sounds like you would rather fling insults than address the fundamental problem of your POV:

    The entire fetus worship position is based on the notion that the speaker is on such alleged great moral high worth that women must by its dint, subsume their intimate personal decisions to the opinions of the speaker.

    I have never seen a fetus worshiping position which did not involve insulting, minimizing or just ignoring the position of the pregnant women. S1ut shaming and nonsense moralistic posturing is supposed to be more important than respecting the privacy of a woman in making decisions concerning her own body and life.

    They desperately avoid addressing the immutable biological fact, a fetus only lives at the will of its mother until viable birth is possible. A born baby’s existence is not under such conditions.

  58. I guess Larry either doesn’t know what the word “ubiquity” means or has no understanding of the context in which it was used.

    Hint: It has nothing to do with “mandatory,” but leave it to a totalitarian mentality to project onto others his own proclivities.

    The obvious point is that ultrasound is everywhere…..anyone can go online and see it.

  59. Ah s1ut shaming. The epitome of fetus worship arguments.

    Those women are just too irresponsible to make decisions about their bodies. But as a “moral upright person”, you must force them to do as you say.

  60. JR, it’s not always “the ladies,” but, often, the “gentlemen” who, after getting their girlfriend pregnant, bully them into getting abortions.

    The upper-middle-class and wealthy leaders of the radical pro-abortion movement threat abortion as a political act of liberation, but in the real world, a working-class or poor girl crying and pleading with a guy not to leave her and promising to get an abortion if he’ll stay is hardly liberating. And that’s exactly why the pro-choice movement historically did not start with feminism, which originally was pro-life, but with population control fanatics who hated black and poor people, considering them to be inferior.

  61. Larry, I hope you’re enjoying your talks with “Sue.”

    If I were a clinical psychologist, you would be quite a subject for study.

  62. Susan, my understanding is that Jewish law has always been more liberal than Catholic law, which basically opposes abortion in all circumstances, but to argue that this means it supports abortion on demand, which is the legal status quo of Roe, is flatly false.

  63. Sixtus Maximus, while pornography is everywhere as never before, I honestly don’t see evidence that the explosion in pornography since the 1970s has weakened the family….because, since the 1970s, the family, while still in bad shape, hasn’t gotten worse and in fact is getting a bit better…..divorce rates, for example, have long flattened out and probably are falling in the real world.

    It’s hard to fathom how pornography can be good for society…..agreed….but other factors loom larger in terms of effects on families…The welfare system comes to mind.

  64. That is so funny. Trying to accuse me of having a “sockpuppet” account. I haven’t posted a thing all last weekend. Been busy. But it is hilarious to see how your mind works.

    I would have someone check out those paranoid delusions you display. The ones where you imagine people to adopt positions that are not even close to what they are saying. Oh wait that is just the way you argue points.

  65. Frothy, you’re never too old to grow up……being a shock jock is for adolescents.

    Calling Hitler a “Christian” is like calling Hannibal Lechter a vegetarian. Hitler’s Nazism was a hodgepodge of Marcionite Gnosticism, ancient Nordic paganism, Eastern mysticism, pseudo-scientific racism and eugenics, Social Darwinism, and modern occult movements.

    An eight-year-old Sunday school child is capable of understanding the difference…..It comes down to salvation by race vs. salvation by grace. Two completely separate world views…..

  66. Calling Hitler a “Christian” is like calling Hannibal Lechter a vegetarian. Hitler’s Nazism was a hodgepodge of Marcionite Gnosticism, ancient Nordic paganism, Eastern mysticism, pseudo-scientific racism and eugenics, Social Darwinism, and modern occult movements.

    An eight-year-old Sunday school child is capable of understanding the difference…..It comes down to salvation by race vs. salvation by grace. Two completely separate world views…..

  67. Ben, tell that to any Christian pastor and you’d evoke quite a chuckle. Trying to lead Christians is like trying to herd cats. Everyone thinks they know the Bible better than the rest.

  68. Okay, Larry, whether your example above is an apt one or not, let’s stipulate that some righties are Nazi brutes…..

    It is equally true that more than a few lefties are Marxist thugs.

    That’s what happens when people pursue extremist-land.

  69. ‘Any sane person’ aka anyone who thinks like me. Also described as ‘any right thinking person.
    You are entitled to your views and I will defend your right to them but You will not impose your views on other people.

  70. Pictures say otherwise



    As does the US Holocaust Memorial Museum

    “How did Christians and their churches in Germany respond to the Nazi regime and its laws, particularly to the persecution of the Jews? The racialized anti-Jewish Nazi ideology converged with antisemitism that was historically widespread throughout Europe at the time and had deep roots in Christian history. For all too many Christians, traditional interpretations of religious scriptures seemed to support these prejudices. ”

    “..most Christians in Germany welcomed the rise of Nazism in 1933.”

    Fundies, stop using Nazi references. You don’t know how they work.

  71. I can’t help it if you are not current on what the fetus worshipers are doing in state legislatures.

  72. P1ss off Jack. You constantly accuse people of being extremists and making strawman arguments for them. Your opinion on the extremism of others is garbage.

    If you guys didn’t want comparisons to Nazis, don’t make reference to them. JR’s Godwinning started off this annoying tangent.

    Public demonstrations against the existence of a given religion is about as close to a parallel people in the US can be to Nazis short of being a member of the Aryan Nation. Sorry, the parallel is far more appropriate there than how JR used it. Mi Godwin, su Godwin.

  73. Actually, it comes from the Greek porne, meaning harlot or prostitute. The term has no relation whatsoever to the devil. Then again, I suppose nonsensical tirades don’t need correct facts.

  74. Larry, now that was a non-response if ever I’ve read one.

    Again, women on both sides of the issue remain only too happy to accept male support for their positions, belying the contention that this is just an “all-men-please-leave-the-room” women’s issue.

    And more to the point, pro-life women completely disagree with your self-refuting premise that men have no standing on the matter.

    Are you about to make the absurd argument that pro-life women aren’t real women or that their opinions don’t count as much as pro-choice women? Hopefully not.

  75. Nice try, Larry, but you’re confusing two separate assertions:

    Assertion 1: Nearly two millennia of Euro-Christian anti-Semitism laid the critical groundwork for the Holocaust and made it far easier to carry it out.

    Assertion 2: Adolf was a Christian.

    Assertion 1 is demonstrably true; Assertion 2 is demonstrably false.

  76. So in other words, it’s okay to call righties Nazis but it’s not okay to call lefties Marxists…..

    So says the master of the double-standard, Larry the Lefty (who I will not presume to be a Marxist).

  77. Jack, maybe you should just heed the advice of one you allegedly hold dear, “Don’t judge unless you want to be judged”.

    Don’t be calling people extremists unless you want the extremism of your position discussed.

  78. Larry, I’m simply saying that what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If lefties call righties Nazis, righties will call lefties Marxists.

    The better idea is to reserve words like Nazi or Marxist for those few who truly fit the bill. Otherwise, we will have a boy-who-cried-wolf problem, as we now do with the “racist” label: when the real deal comes along, nobody will believe us when we point it out.

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