Opinion

Where are the Trump evangelicals now?

President Trump, center, flanked by Vice President Mike Pence, left, and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, delivers remarks at Homeland Security headquarters in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 25, 2017. Photo courtesy of Reuters/Jonathan Ernst

(RNS) The Trump administration is off to a very bad start.  It seems as if he and his staff cannot tell the truth.

Last Saturday (Jan. 21), President Trump told his press secretary, Sean Spicer, to lie about the crowd size at his inauguration.

On Sunday, Kellyanne Conway, a Trump senior adviser, said Spicer was not lying, he was just offering “alternative facts.”

Trump is still claiming millions of votes were cast illegally in the November 2016 election.

Trump’s claims about the size of the crowds at his inauguration and widespread voter fraud are simply not true. Either he is woefully misinformed, has allowed his narcissistic personality to get in the way of the facts or is deliberately trying to deceive the American people. All three are probably true.

Christians believe that lying is a sinful practice.

The last time I checked, Christians stood for things that are true. With this in mind, why don’t I hear a massive chorus of evangelical Christians – especially the 81 percent of Christians who voted for Trump – calling the POTUS to task?

Where are the marches? Where are the appearances on cable news? Where are the blog posts and tweets? Where is the outrage from evangelical pulpits, especially among preachers who are intent upon using their influence to build a Christian culture?

Where is the voice of Robert Jeffress today? The Dallas megachurch pastor was one of the earliest evangelical leaders to support Trump. At the pre-inaugural prayer service, Jeffress used the Old Testament book of Nehemiah to praise Trump for his plan to build a wall to keep out immigrants and protect our borders against enemies. Jeffress believes that Trump was called by God to be our president.

(RNS1-jan8) Dr. Robert Jeffress reads from the Bible. For use with RNS-JEFRESS-OBAMA, transmitted on January 8, 2014, Photo by David Edmonson, courtesy of First Baptist Church, Dallas, TX

Robert Jeffress reads from the Bible. Photo courtesy of David Edmonson/First Baptist Church, Dallas

Jeffress fashions himself as a spiritual adviser to Trump. In the Old Testament, the Hebrew prophets called their kings to task for their immorality. They challenged kings to lead justly. I hope Jeffress is doing this behind the scenes right now.

Jeffress’ Pathway to Victory website includes a devotional titled “Telling the Truth.” He writes:

Although lying is rampant and socially acceptable in our culture, it violates one of God’s most foundational principles for living. … God desires for us at all times to speak the truth.

Back in 2008, Jeffress wrote a book titled “Outrageous Truth.” One of these  “outrageous truths” is the idea that “America is a Christian nation.”

Jeffress believes that our democratic republic is built upon Judeo-Christian principles. Most evangelical Christians who think this way also believe that the republic will ultimately crumble if the people and their leaders do not conform to Judeo-Christian morality. If Jeffress is such a great champion of a Christian nation built on the foundation of truth, where is the outrage over Trump’s blatant lies?

And where is Jerry Falwell Jr. today?  He is the president of a university. Does Liberty University, the largest Christian university in the world, value the pursuit of truth? I think it does.

So why isn’t Falwell on Fox News speaking out against the lies emanating from the leader of the free world?

Why isn’t he standing up before the thousands of students at convocation and defending truth? Why isn’t he saying Trump’s lies run contrary to the kind of evidence-based thinking that I am sure nearly all of the professors at Liberty try to teach their students?

How much longer will Christian leaders like Jeffress and Falwell, and the people that they represent, sit by and let POTUS lie to us in this way?

As long as politics are more important than speaking truth to power, don’t expect to hear from the Trump evangelicals anytime soon.

By the way, if you are looking for them you might find them at their kitchen tables eating a mess of pottage.

(John Fea teaches American history at Messiah College, a Christian liberal arts college in Mechanicsburg, Pa. He blogs daily at www.thewayofimprovement.com)

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John Fea

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  • The opportunities for snark here, regarding evangelicals and truth, or religion and truth, are a truly great temptation. Nevertheless, I won’t.

    “Although lying is rampant and socially acceptable in our culture, it violates one of God’s most foundational principles for living. … God desires for us at all times to speak the truth.”

    For 45 years, as a gay man, I have listened to so called Christians lie about me, my life, and the lives of millions of people like me. They have been called out on their lies many times, and they simply don’t care, because Truthiness is far more a conservative Christian value than Truth.

    Why they should care about Truth when it comes to Trumpee is a mystery.

  • Evangelicals are not immune to having double standards. In one sense, I am pleased that this article details what is obvious: that the truth and Donald Trump have only occasional encounters.
    What is clear is that in politics, double standards abound.
    Now that there is a (nominal) Republican in the White House, the activist left can go back to focusing on homelessness, which is rampant in our big cities. They do get quite dormant on that issue when a Democrat is President.
    Unfortunately, most of us have seemingly grown indifferent to lies coming from politicians of all stripes. Trump is exploiting that, and will continue to do so. Those who ignored lies from his predecessors helped create that indifference. Since I have not read Mr. Fea before, I do not know if this is his first article on Presidential lies.
    “As long as politics are more important than speaking truth to power” – you will have this problem, and Trump and the evangelicals are in the wrong, but they sure do not have a monopoly on the blame for this indifference to truth.

  • They will accept anything until Roe v. Wade is overturned. They will put up with wars and walls until that day comes. It will never come because the right has always promised and never delivered.

  • “Christians believe that lying is a sinful practice.”

    But they also believe that Jesus forgives all their sins. That’s why they get worked up over other people’s sins instead of their own.

  • Where are they? They’re right where they were before. Either they knew before what Trump is and considered him better than the alternatives, or they stuck their fingers in their ears and sang “la la la la” and were oblivious. Denial was their best friend. If they change their tune now, that would show that they were wrong before or that they missed something obvious. I don’t expect that to happen.

  • “With this in mind, why don’t I hear a massive chorus of evangelical Christians – especially the 81 percent of Christians who voted for Trump – calling the POTUS to task?”

    White, conservative evangelicals are not Christians. Period.

  • “but they sure do not have a monopoly on the blame for this indifference to truth.”

    No one suggested they did, but nice straw-man argument you have there. John Fea called out evangelicals because (1) they supported Trump more than any other demographic and (2) they make more noise than most about the importance of the truth and truthfulness. If you didn’t get that, reread the article. If you still don’t get it, you should probably stop commenting in public about things you don’t understand.

  • I specifically stated that I was pleased Fea addressed this issue, at least in one sense, and I called out the evangelicals, in the words in front of the quote that you printed. You chose to leave those words out, as you only put the back part of the quote. Talk about a straw man.

    In many posts, I have spoken in detail about the double standard of many on the right, For example, Clint Eastwood is a serial aborter, and yet he is admired enough to get cheered when he speaks before the Republican convention in 2012, the party that says it opposes abortion as a legal option.

    I have also spoken about how homelessness will suddenly become a political issue again, as a nominal Republican is now in the White House.

    No plans to stop commenting at all, because you do not serve as a judge of what I get and do not get.

  • Your last sentence cannot reasonably be demonstrated to be true, unless of course you have some empirical data that you have failed to provide thus far. It is merely a declarative statement of your personal belief without reference to substantive evidence. However loudly and often you declare it, the reality of your misperception and error will not change..

  • God knows His own, and while I agree that an active gay lifestyle is not compatible with a Christian one, I believe we should treat those with whom we disagree with compassion, without compromising the clear teaching and message of scripture. In showing that compassion, that does not mean we are to retreat from defending the Word of God from the modern “experts” who would “rend the scriptures to their own destruction” via revisionist interpretations of the language where a single word, that might have some linguistic nuance, becomes the authority for turning over a historically settled doctrine dating back to the beginning of the church and before.

  • If the President does not learn to speak and act a bit more reflectively, it will do his administration more harm than good. I’m not certain that Evangelicals need call the President out on the issue of crowd size at his inauguration, or his claims about voter fraud; that’s just Mr. Trump being Mr. Trump. To the author, Note: It is not necessary to have a march every other day to express one’s outrage, a concise timely bit of correspondence would probably have as much practical effect if enough people demonstrated the discipline and thoughtfulness to do it.

  • From the comments below, you see where the “Christian” voter’s opinions are. Looks like the decline of the Churches, they won the battle, but are loosing the war from self inflected wounds.

  • I realize you are blind to your problem, but surely somewhere in there has to be a glimmer of recognition, of self-awareness: “I am desperate for attention and meaning.”

  • “It is merely a declarative statement of your personal belief without reference to substantive evidence.”

    I call to the witness stand the history of White “Christians” in America, from 1619 to the present.

  • Every word of your comment smacks of thoughtless naivete. Or willful ignorance. Or depraved indifference.

    It’s almost like you have no understanding, no real or honest assessment, of everything Trump has said or done in the past week alone, never mind the past year and a half or earlier. “Trump being Trump”–what is that supposed to mean? He gets a pass because…what? He’s a “guy’s guy”? Or are you implying he’s to be taken “seriously, but not literally’? Despite the actions he has literally taken on…well, you name it: middle class tax cut, science funding, “the Wall,” and the refugee ban? Please don’t try to discuss any of these. If you can’t admit he’s *literally* doing what he said he would on these and other issues, you aren’t honest enough to talk about them.

    Worse–perhaps–is what you say about Evangelicals. So Evangelicals who pretend to care about truthfulness and about moral character shouldn’t say anything about the one topic Trump shouts about the loudest? So Evangelicals are now in the business of distinguishing between lies that matter and lies that don’t? Why not voter fraud? Do Evangelicals not care when the executive branch of the Federal gov’t makes a demonstrably false claim about the legitimacy of the democratic process? That doesn’t bother you? Or do you not know desired result of the lie or the history behind it: more voter restrictions and suppression?

    Yet despite your complete lack of honesty, you deign to give advice on how to protest. No need to march. Just write a letter! I don’t even know where to begin with this hot mess of nonsense. It almost would have been more candid of you to say: “protesters ought to submit because their concerns are not valid!” Never mind the actual history and purposes of marches. Never mind that former congressional staffers tell us that writing has little effect, that calling or speaking in person has the most influence. No, none of that really matters. I could argue about it all day, and it wouldn’t matter a bit. Why?

    Because if you don’t already care about the people who will be harmed by Trump, I don’t know how to explain why you should.

  • Satan is the Father of Lies. Looks like Trump and most Evangelicals are agents of Satan. The US is now a Satanic country?

  • To quote myself: “Evangelicalism is more politics than religion now. Its stalwarts are the Pharisees of this age.”

    In voting overwhelmingly for Pres. Trump in November and their silence in the face of odious Executive Orders targeting vulnerable populations, the vast majority of Evangelicals (81%) declared themselves a constituency bereft of rectitude.

  • Hmm. I can’t help but notice that you have posted 10 times in this thread, compared to me posting only two times (counting this small post here.)

    So if it’s a matter of desperately seeking “attention and meaning” (and also being chock-full of liberal anger & angst, based on the content of your posts),
    your posts would seem to implicate you instead of me.

  • Christianity can no longer be defined as truth or compassionate or loving… Christian voters told us all that they don’t believe all people are equal; that rejecting a hungry child is a good thing; that a child should be punished because of the actions of his/her parents; that all those they disagree with should be kill and they have the gun on their hip that will do it; that women, disabled, brown & black people have less value than white men; Lies are OK and education is not necessary and greed and control of others are their primary goals..

    Good Job Folks… I wonder how Jesus would feel about all that??

  • We watched the election… We watch the things Trump did and said… We saw the Christians side with him.. So we all know what they really think.. Their vote told us that they agree with Trump… Adultery OK; Robbery OK; Divorce OK; Greed OK; ect ect ect.

  • Well said column. Before the election, a local conservative columnist here in Tennessee wrote, “my question for my friends on the right: If you found Bill Clinton’s behavior abhorrent in the 1990s, so vile you cheered his impeachment and deemed him unfit for the Oval Office, how can you back Trump now?”
    During this election season, it has been sad to watch evangelicals abrogate their moral and principled authority in our culture by becoming so closely intertwined and identified with the platform of a single political party to support an ill-informed misogynist, racist, xenophobic, and Islamophobic who, by any standard, is morally and ethically bankrupt.
    Must confess that I truly do not understand how supposedly good church folks could vote for the spoiled brat of a bully with a stunning lack of human decency, empathy, and respect, not to mention being a sociopathic liar who is a 70-year-old nasty, mean-spirited, vindictive toddler. Perhaps it does confirm how celebrity and unfounded/unproven rumors of malfeasance can indeed snooker the public and trump sincere public service. As Jesus asked, “What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?”

  • BOOM! Prof. Fea just did a great job of lowering it right where it belongs. People like Jeffress and Falwell are simply scammers whose means of separating the gullible from their money is religion.

  • Lies and Damned Lies

    1] Obama had 1,5 million at his inauguration. Truth or Lie? Journalism professor and crowd-counting guru, Stephen Doig, says today’s technology cuts that figure to 800,000. Are all of the journalists who used the 1.5 mil figure lying?

    2] Aerial pics of one hour before speech showed that Trump had a crowd 1/3rd the size of Obama. Truth or Lie? Trump definitely had more than 1/3 of 800,000. Additionally, due to the massive protests and crowd control/safety issues, Trump goers took far longer to get through checkpoints to the mall. Many say they never made it after hours of standing in lines. Still, the size of the Trump crowd mushroomed in size within 1-2 hours later. IOW, the timing of the aerial comparison pics actually gives a misleading picture of the crowd size. Were those who used the earlier photos to create an impression of less interest actually lying?

    3] If journalists use a “real” picture to create an “unreal” perception and top it off with failing to mention mitigating factors, are they lying? What if they fail to compare TV/internet viewership numbers that dwarf Obama’s numbers while stressing the early crowd sizes to create a lack-of-interest impression, are they lying? What if they fail to mention that umbrellas were not allowed on the mall so the rain made a significant difference, is the omission a lie if the thrust of the piece implies a difference in enthusiasm? What if they trumpet Obama’s crowd size and approval numbers compared to Trump’s while failing to mention that Obama’s average approval rate of 47.9 put him at the 4th lowest post WWll president approval numbers, below Nixon’s and Bush’s approval numbers. Are they lying?

    Here’s an idea…How ‘bout if Christians focus on helping those around them and doing the best they can while keeping their powder dry for things that really matter?

  • I’ve been accused of many things but rarely for a “lack of honesty,” I might be wrong, but I suspect you are a relatively young man who has not lived as long or seen as much as I have. I have recently been re-examining past American Presidential Campaigns and find nothing astonishing or out of the realm of normal political commentary in the past election cycle. One needs a sense and appreciation of history, and how to assess it in context. March away if that floats your boat, I happen to believe there are more sensible and less hysterical measures to take. I’d march too if it were for a question of real import, so far I’m not seeing it.

  • Which, once again, does not constitute specific evidence or proof. Have their been failures on the part of those who declare themselves as Christians, white or otherwise? Absolutely. But blanket unspecific and unsubstantiated declarations don’t help your argument, nor do you consider a number of things that can be entered into the positive side of the ledger, which I will not list here as it would be a pointless exercise, with one salient exception; white evangelical Christians were at the forefront of the anti-slavery crusade of the middle 19th century.

  • Three words.

    Power. Money. dominion.

    Those are the actual god’s of the far right religious conservatives. You can see it in these very pages as they gleefully send anyone who disagrees with them To hell. It’s almost as if they think they are actually god.

  • The real question is, why does a certain class of so called Christian always think that THEY have the authority to decide who is. Hristian and who is not? These pages are constantly filled with so called Christians flinging their Theo-poo at other Christians for not being the right sort of Christian.

    “Who value the opinions of homosexuals.” One more time, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt, that so much of bigotry is the always unwarranted faith in ones own entirely imaginary superiority as moral people, as Christians, and as human beings.

  • Those who talk about Judeo-Christian values are really Christians who don’t know or care about the Judeo portion, beyond what Christians call the “Old Testament”. The Christian “Old Testament” is not the same as the Hebrew Bible. It lets Evangelicals appear inclusive, but they’re really not.

  • Barb, first, not all Christians voted for Trump. While I generally support much of what is doing or promises to do, I didn’t vote for him precisely because of the issues you raised. But what was a Christian’s alternative? Hillary?! Seriously?! She’s as corrupt as he could ever be. Christians had no good choice in this election. Some, like me, believed we should just not vote. Others – many others – believed that in a contest between two corrupt liars, we should choose the one that will enact policies closer to our beliefs. In any case, you cannot and should assume that because Christians voted for him, that means they support everything about him. I found his lies about the inauguration crowd stupid, unnecessary and wrong. But I don’t recall the same outrage when President Obama would stretch the truth quite a bit.

  • I’m sorry, but just how is Hillary corrupt? There is no objective evidence to support this statement just GOP rhetoric and paranoid conspiracy theories. And you’ll point to the make believe scandals of Benghazi and her completely lawful email server and proof, right? Wake up and smell the coffe eagles, little Donny trump is a lying sack of spit and so is Kelly Anne Goebels and Sean Spicer.

    Yesterday tiny-hands-trump decided that Syrian muslims refugees who are already thouroughly well vetted shouldn’t be permitted into the USA when there are kind hearted liberal Christians who are ready to welcome them as Christ instructed us to do. See Matthew 25, 31-46.

  • “I’ve been accused of many things but rarely for a “lack of honesty,””

    Maybe you should get out more.

    “I might be wrong, but I suspect you are a relatively young man who has not lived as long or seen as much as I have.”

    This comment is half right, but completely irrelevant.

    “I have recently been re-examining past American Presidential Campaigns and find nothing astonishing or out of the realm of normal political commentary in the past election cycle.”

    Your ignorance is, indeed, just as good as my knowledge and the knowledge of millions of other people who read history.

    “I’d march too if it were for a question of real import, so far I’m not seeing it.”

    There’s rub. You don’t care. The rest is commentary.

  • Given your historic reference, then what about the practice of adelphopoiesis?

    Also, with respect to your comment about writing and not protesting. Three comments. First, it will be interesting to see how the President responds (if at all) to the 2 White House petitions re: tax returns and blind trust. Second, writing is a good exercise as a log of a letter sent should be kept. It also keeps you honest (hopefully) in thinking out what you write. However, it generates anger if a canned response is issued and you feel you have not been heard. Third, given a President who seems to want to be the greatest President ever (likely construed as being equivalent to the most popular), marching – if the crowd is large enough – and is repeated is also likely to have an impact. (along with court challenges and alternative public narratives) Desegregation, women’s voting rights, the end to Vietnam were also moved along by marching. And, it is an activity that is a reminder that ‘we the people’ is bigger than Trump and the GOP. Oddly enough, it has been suggested that Trump’s values and policies are due to the influence of the Tea Party and certainly protests and marches were party of their strategy. I actually think that if Trump retreats on a couple of key platform planks, he would be a less divisive president and more generally palatable/more normal Republican president.

  • “So much liberal anger and angst.” Okay. Tell me, how does a conservative respond to tonight’s news?

    President Trump removed the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence from the NSC and added Steve Bannon to it, his political strategist, former editor of Breitbart News. To repeat, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence have been removed from the National Security Council. And replaced with the guy who ran what he called, “the mouthpiece of the alt-right.” No military or intelligence background. Does this not even get a rise from a Trump supporter?

  • Hillary is not the president. Trump is. So the question is what are Christians going to do about it now? Are they paying attention? Tonight, President removed the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence from the National Security Council and added Steve Bannon to it. The former editor of Breitbart News. No military or intelligence background. Bannon is Trump’s political strategist. Does this not alarm you?

  • What about this ‘christian’ cult congress, in this ‘Christian nation’, death merchants getting rich constantly making war for oil/gas/uranium etc under the disguise of Christ, “one nation under God… in God we trust..”, upheaving the planet, intentionally creating refugees, widows and orphans by the millions. They’re drowning in the blood of millions of innocents and the ‘church’ doesn’t have a clue, about as spirit-led as trump’s pe nis, about as inquisitive as a hammer, supporting them, complicit in it all.

    They’ve regressed to a paranoid Religion, a delusional cult fantasizing in primitive, dreamy, hair-splittin ‘theological’ bs, detached from truth/God, driven by fear and hate, motivated by rhetoric and propaganda. The average one would support a filthy rich, tax-dodging, “two” Corinthians, puzzy grabbin, blasphemous sexual predator – a godless, real anti-christ who says “I don’t need much forgiveness b/c I don’t make mistakes”, while their bible explicitly describes him and their eventual following! The spiritually depraved priests and preachers supporting him share his characteristics of sexual prowess and greed of money.

    They started here with the annually celebrated original ‘christian’ founding father Christopher Columbus pulling the Natives apart with horses for not meeting his weekly gold quotas, thanking God for his ‘prosperity’ in his letters to the queen. They’ve upheaved Africa for over a century and overthrew every government in South America, some 2 and 3 times, and continue today in their demonically greedy corporate hustle. They’re funneling arms all over the world fueling death and destruction, getting filthy rich from it all.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/world/middleeast/cia-arms-for-syrian-rebels-supplied-black-market-officials-say.html?_r=0

    http://www.salon.com/2014/03/08/35_countries_the_u_s_has_backed_international_crime_partner/

    http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/39159-noam-chomsky-on-the-long-history-of-us-meddling-in-foreign-elections

    https://www.thenation.com/authors/nick-turse/

    http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176191/tomgram%3A_nick_turse%2C_killing_people%2C_breaking_things%2C_and_america%27s_winless_wars/#more

    “The U.S. doth bestride the world of arms production and dealing like a colossus. According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, U.S. arms contractors sold $209.7 billion in weaponry in 2015, representing 56% of the world’s production.  Of that, $40 billion was exported to an array of countries, representing “half of all agreements in the worldwide arms bazaar… Judged by the sheer amount of weapons it produces for itself, as well as for others, the U.S., notes Forbes, is “still comfortably the world’s superpower — or warmonger, depending on how you look at it.”

    …and the evidence goes on and on. All one has to do is use their God-given brain.

    If the vicious drive to acquire more is the core of evil, then there is no doubt this death merchant cult claiming Christ is truly the evil antichrist spirit their bible predicts will ravage the world, and now truly is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKV1sTw8zOc

  • Like this…
    Isaiah 1:23 Your leaders are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loves gifts, and follow after rewards: they deny justice to the fatherless, neither does the plight of the widow come to them.

    Isa 56:11 …they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter (district). Rom 16:18 …they serve their own belly; and by GOOD words and FAIR speeches deceive the minds of the simple.

    Ezekiel 33:31 They come to you as the people come …they hear your words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they show much love, but their heart goes after their greed.

    Isa 56: Their habitation is in the midst of deceit… Jer 9:5 …they exhaust themselves in greed Prov 22:16 they oppress the people to increase their riches, and they give to the rich…

    Amos 5:7 They turn justice to bitterness, and neglect whats right… 5:12 they afflict the just, they take a bribe, and they turn aside the people from whats right.

    Psa 26:10 In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand (priority) is full of bribes. Psa 5:9 They flatter with their tongue. There is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is truly wicked; their throat is an open tomb. Psa 12:2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbor: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

    2 Peter2:19 They speak great swelling words of pride, they manipulate using the desires of the people, through much wantonness… While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption…

    1Tim 6:5 Perverse men of corrupt minds, destitute of the Truth, supposing that gain is godliness… 2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the Truth. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Isa 59:14 Judgement is turned backward, and justice stands far off: for Truth has fallen.

    2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: a mind they have exercised with greedy practices; cursed men.

    Jeremiah 9:3 They bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the Truth; they proceed from evil to evil, and they dont know God …they deceive every one, and will not speak the Truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and exhaust themselves in greed. Their habitation is in the midst of deceit; because of deceit they refuse to know God …their tongue is as an arrow shot out; it speaks deceit: he speaks peaceably to neighbors, but in his mind he lays their wait. Shall I not visit them for these things? says the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

    I put a little new testament in there to help. And there’s much more. Its Christianity 101 and the church is clueless!

  • So says the man, or woman depending on the mood of the night, who vehemently defends literal ‘poo-flinging’ …psychotically accusing others of being ‘obsessed’ with it. Stop spreading delusion. Enough of the poo stuff, seriously, you need help Ben.

  • Modern psychology and other scientific evidence shows us that LGBT do far more good for society as a group, even with all the social stigma they suffer and the personal costs that go with, than do many self-professed “Christians.” Hallelujah hypocrites are mostly takers, not givers. The reason that in modern secular society that LGBT are a rising star and that Hallelujah hypocrites are fading is simply that, who gives more to and who takes more from the common good. As evidenced by the rise of Trump, his hallelujah hypocrite supporters are all carpetbaggers looking to cash in at everyone else’s expense. None of them really give back to society the way most LGBT do. The “Christian” fruits of LGBT are mostly good and sweet, but those of the holy rollers, not so much.

  • There’s much truth to this! ‘Gay’ heteros do way more for God than hate-filled hallelujah heteros now days …but never deny that the fetish of licking and sucking excrement for orgasm is still wicked no matter if its heteros, or heteros that call themselves ‘gay’.

  • Going to the gutter like that is crude and unseemly. There are four basic ways in which humans can share themselves sexually with a partner (without the use of other objects). All four are available to heterosexual couples; three to gay couples and two to lesbian couples. All of them are perfectly normal and natural to human anatomy and none rob anyone of human dignity in the process of giving and receiving personal pleasure. Nor are any of them specifically forbidden in holy writ, except with respect to ancient Israel after they worshipped the Golden Calf and indulged in “pagan worship” sex practices. Modern, pro-LGBT Bible scholars have shown that most sexual prohibitions in the Old Testament actually target pagan worship through sex than the sexuality itself. So, your remarks in pretending to be supportive are still mostly pejorative, and unwarranted.

  • I don’t ‘go to the gutter’, they do. Its a social norm now days. I just expose it, and those that babble desperate intellectual excuses while at the same time delusionally admit that its ‘gutter’.

  • The obsession with other people’s beds, bedrooms, and personal lives is what makes you the bigot and not merely a political opponent. That’s delusional behavior.

  • I take no ‘political’ sides. Politics killed Christ, all the disciples and prophets. I’m obsessed with exposing evil, I don’t care if its done in a vault. ‘Delusional behavior’ is calling it ‘gutter’ while at the same time making excuses and defending it. Psychotic!

  • Following Christ is the cure. Not worshiping him. He said, “The world hates me because I expose it, that the works thereof are evil.”

    Ephesians 5:11 Have no association with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

    1 Timothy 5:20 those elders who are sinning you are to expose before everyone, so that the others may take warning.

    Prov 8:13 The fear of the lord is to hate evil…

    Psalms 97:10 You that love the lord, hate evil…

    Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, love the good and establish justice: it may be that God will be gracious to you.

    I’m anti-evil, no matter the delusional fancy titles, but you win. We are hogging good space. Excuse me while I dust my feet and move on…

  • What about the bigger picture of this ‘christian’ cult congress, in this ‘Christian nation’, budgetless, $20Trillion in debt, savagely raping the treasury writing contracts to friends and family, in a death clinch ‘alliance’ with the Kings of institutionalized Wahhabi headchoppin suicidal terrorists, death merchants getting rich constantly making war for oil/gas/uranium etc under the disguise of Christ, “one nation under God… in God we trust..”, upheaving the planet, intentionally creating refugees, widows and orphans by the millions bringing ‘peace and liberty’. They’re drowning in the blood of millions of innocents and the ‘church’ doesn’t have a clue, about as spirit-led as trump’s pe nis, about as inquisitive as a hammer, supporting this trash, complicit in it.

    They’ve regressed to a paranoid Religion, a delusional cult fantasizing in primitive, dreamy, hair-splittin ‘theological’ bs, detached from truth/God, driven by fear and hate, motivated by rhetoric and propaganda. The average one would support a filthy rich, tax-dodging, “two” Corinthians, puzzy grabbin, blasphemous sexual predator – a godless, real anti-christ who says “I don’t need much forgiveness b/c I don’t make mistakes”, while their bible explicitly describes him and their eventual following! The spiritually depraved priests and preachers supporting him share his characteristics of sexual prowess and greed of money.

    They started here with the annually celebrated original ‘christian’ founding father Christopher Columbus pulling the Native ‘savages’ apart with horses for not meeting his weekly gold quotas, thanking God for his ‘prosperity’ in his letters to the queen. They’ve upheaved Africa for over a century and overthrew every government in South America, some 2 and 3 times, installing some of the most ruthless, murdering tyrants known to man, and continue today in their demonically greedy corporate hustle. They’re funneling arms all over the world fueling death and destruction, getting filthy rich from the misery, anguish, despair and death.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/world/middleeast/cia-arms-for-syrian-rebels-supplied-black-market-officials-say.html?_r=0

    http://www.salon.com/2014/03/08/35_countries_the_u_s_has_backed_international_crime_partner/

    http://www.salon.com/2015/11/18/this_is_why_they_hate_us_the_real_american_history_neither_ted_cruz_nor_the_new_york_times_will_tell_you/

    http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/39159-noam-chomsky-on-the-long-history-of-us-meddling-in-foreign-elections

    https://www.thenation.com/authors/nick-turse/

    http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176191/tomgram%3A_nick_turse%2C_killing_people%2C_breaking_things%2C_and_america%27s_winless_wars/#more

    “The U.S. doth bestride the world of arms production and dealing like a colossus. According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, U.S. arms contractors sold $209.7 billion in weaponry in 2015, representing 56% of the world’s production. Of that, $40 billion was exported to an array of countries, representing “half of all agreements in the worldwide arms bazaar… Judged by the sheer amount of weapons it produces for itself, as well as for others, the U.S., notes Forbes, is “still comfortably the world’s superpower — or warmonger, depending on how you look at it.”

    …and the evidence goes on and on. All one has to do is use their God-given brain.

    If the vicious drive to acquire more is the core of evil, then there is no doubt this death merchant cult claiming Christ is truly the evil antichrist spirit their bible predicted would ravage the world, and now truly is. “…he destroys wonderfully with peace”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKV1sTw8zOc

  • You claim to yourself authority that simply is not there. Quoting Jesus or the Bible does not connect your bigoted reasoning that follows thereafter. It just shows how disconnected from the actual teachings of Jesus you are.

  • I voted for Trump and frankly am more concerned about Illegal Immigration, cancelling ObamaCare, Lowering Taxes, building the Wall, ensuring our military has the proper equipment, The Supreme Court appointment and all of the other Cabinet posts and appointments.

    You want to focus on “crowd size?”

    I guess this means ANYTHING President Trump says or does you will disagree with.

    Unfortunately our half of the nation disagrees with you and the other liberal progressives.

  • Fine. You stick with defending playing in excrement for ‘pleasure in private’, assuming Christ would be ok with it, and i’ll stick with exposing it. Good day.

  • Actually, you would be the one playing in excrement, human or horse, as in horse manure. The personal hygiene of the LGBT community is not the real issue here; it’s your obsessive fascination with other people’s bowel movements and bedroom privacy. Get the help you need, soon.

  • Hey, you’re the one calling it ‘gutter’ and then defending it!

    “…but lord, its none of your business. Plus we done it in private and gargled afterwards.”

  • “Gutter” describes the crude, vulgar way in which you get into LGBT sexuality as a tactic to defame them, but you only serve to discredit yourself by such vulgar, inflammatory talk. I have no problem talking about sex or sexuality in public, as long as we do so in a manner that is not too graphic and therefore inappropriate for young people who may view or read comments. Keep it rated PG, if you can.

  • Well, with respect to marches, if we must have them; I would prefer that they met certain requirements such as permitting and a rejection of property destruction and civil disruption. I prefer the model of MLK and the suffragettes to the model of the Vietnam War protestors. Trump, I think, in a sense stands apart from the GOP as such and will be prone to go his own way, for good or ill.

  • That’s really not that far out. I would recommend “Presidential Campaigns,” by Paul F. Boller, Jr.

  • A rise? Not from me. Bannon does not appear to have anything that would disqualify him from a seat on the Nat’l Security Council.

    Your only real complaint is “No military or intelligence background.” But just as 2016 voters wanted an outsider Prez with “No political or Beltway experience”, apparently Trump wanted somebody outside the good-ole-boy intelligence community.

    And one thing about Bannon — like him or hate him, the guy is smart. He knew exactly what was happening in America, precisely how the Democrats failed America, and exactly how Trump could win America despite all his mistakes, at a time when the national media was still preaching their liberal HOG-SLOP that Queen Hillary was a near-automatic win. So Bannon’s definitely smart enough to check things over at the NSC.

    I’m not saying Bannon’s the best man. Not thrilled. But I wasn’t (and still ain’t) thrilled with Obama’s choices and pals either. “Elections Have Consequences,” Obama happily boasted, but now Trump is the president. So it’s TRUMP’s call as to who stays and goes on the NSC. Definitely nothing to stress about, Gapaul.

  • Honestly, the next time you’re in the hospital, will you ask “someone outside the medical community,” to diagnose you? You, the patient, get to believe or disbelieve, follow their advice or not. You are in exactly the same position as Trump in regards to your health. But I assume you’d want close to you the opinions of someone who knows the capability of medicine.

    Bannon is the single most terrifying thing about the Trump administration. And he’s currently running the show. Writing the executive orders, now moving in on this turf. If you don’t find a man who says he’s a Leninist, and “Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment,” he’s your guy. Watch his moves towards the European far-right.

  • Behind every con man is a real whack job But if the black panthers had a pair, they would play with them all day. Hillary is so mean, she would lop off Bill’s pair, Mount them on a wall, and laugh her thighs off Only wearing Bill’s full metal helmet head.
    In the spacious confines of her slacks, Hillary eats black baby liver and onions for breakfast and femme Nazi brains covered with commie cagine in a cast iron burka for dinner. Bill found Hillary by dragging a dollar across Lakeside Trailer Park.Hillary will do anything for money.

  • They’re putting up like a thousand Ba’al arches here, there,
    everywhere! “I’m coming out for the whole world to see” and the next thing “I’M GOING TO SUCK ON YOU LIKE A BUCKET OF TICKS FOR ETERNITY!”.

    The McGuffin is spiking humanity. The setup hero is Barack. The villain is humanity. Hillary is the anti-Christ.

    You’re gonna die of Lyme disease in denial unless you untie
    your tubes you tied in your commie core teens and join Team America. Hillary was last in line for brains. The ones she’s got are rotten and insane.

  • I’m 62 and been a voracious consumer of news for 50+ of those years. I agree with all that EricT wrote. You, the elderly Edward Borges-Silva, miss the larger point, despite all of your years on the planet. Where did Nixon’s use of racial divisions and lies lead our country? During the 1968 campaign, Nixon told us he had a secret plan to end the war in Vietnam. There was no plan. Sound familiar? Nixon also stoked racial tensions in the South to win white votes. Sound familiar? It doesn’t matter how long you’ve lived or how much you’ve seen if you are clueless as to what it means. You sound like the Archie Bunker ‘My country, love it or leave it’ crowd of the 1960s. You also appear to be fine with repeating the devastating mistakes of the past. Trump’s just being Trump and Nixon was just being Nixon. He was called Tricky Dick two decades before he became president, but voters who thought like you put that aside because Nixon was just being Nixon. How did that turn out? And as one who marched during Vietnam, it did more than float my boat. Those marches got this country out of a useless, hopeless, unwinnable war that killed 58,208 US military personnel and more than a million other people — not to mention destroying the lives of many vets who still live on the street 50 years later — much earlier than our presidents would have on their own. Did you join us then? If not, you now have a second chance to be on the right side of history.

  • I had several relatives who fought in that war, ill advised as it was, and none of them ended up homeless or on the street, they come home and despite disturbing memories lead very productive lives. Many of the vets of that era indeed came back broken and dysfunctional, yet many more became dysfunctional by embracing the growing drug culture at that time and thus reaped what they had sown. As a former drug user I know the culture.There are grave problems in this country, and they are equally fomented by a rabid right and a lunatic left. I am by no means clueless. I follow a different trail of clues perhaps, but all this hyperventilating over Mr. Trump shows all the characteristics of a childish temper tantrum. I cite the idiocy which just took place at Berkeley.

  • Edward, I am not sure how old you are but I am over 50 and I have followed politics closely all of my life. We have had good and bad leaders (and I have voted for both democrats and republicans) but Donald Trump is a different animal–and I use the term animal purposefully. He, and those who surround him, are sociopathic–they lie incessantly, publicly belittle those who have physical handicaps, promote bigotry and hatred and essentially are destroying what meager ethical fabric our nation has. I certainly think it is time for all people of good will and faith to rise up and cry out.

  • Yes, there was idiocy from a relatively small group in Berkeley. So what? Compare that against the millions who marched peacefully two weeks ago. You did not respond to the comparisons between Trump and Nixon and how excusing Nixon for just being Nixon did terrible damage to our country. Apparently you still are comfortable with Trump being Trump and let the chips fall where they may. Many patriotic Americans who, apparently, have a better sense and understanding of history than you are not and are exercising their free speech rights appropriately. I suggest you read the Trump-Nixon comparison here – ericposner.com – that apparently was being written at the same time I was posting similar comments. The comparison goes even deeper than I realized and is even more frightening. And it was just Kellyanne being Kellyanne when she invented the Bowling Green Massacre out of thin air. She was feeding the fake news pipeline. This is what the propaganda operations of dictators do. The old adage about “doomed to repeat it” is one many of us feel must not be ignored.

  • I don’t think the comparison of Trump to Nixon will prove true over the long haul. Nixon clearly, not only distrusted virtually all others but himself as well. His past record of duplicity or self deceit only makes me wonder at America’s willingness to bestow America’s highest office on him when it did. However, as regards Vietnam, that was debacle produced at core by the two previous Democrat administrations; few leftists wish to speak to that glaring fact. Still, it was measure of American weariness and desperation that elected him, much like the election of the current chief executive. Still., we survived Nixon, we we doubtless survive Trump. As to Kellyanne and her gaffe, it is not so pronounced as you would make it. It was a painfully hasty utterance not utterly devoid of actual particulars, but the facts were confused and not properly understood by Kellyanne. But “alternative facts” are a problem common to both the Right and Left.

  • Rise up as Isaiah, Elijah, and Jonah, by all means. But let us rise up based on the full context of God’s Word as Christians. You and I both claim Christianity, but do we define that by the same terms? It’s an honest question. I would not toss the term “sociopathic” around loosely, such are a special class of deeply disturbed and morally impaired individuals who have less control over their choices than that of the President and his coterie. The meagre ethical fabric of our nation has long been affraying, though you and I again, even as Christians, might disagree on what the root nature of that fraying is. If one is indeed called of God to rise up, then let that one adhere to the biblical standard, which includes indisputable truth, sternness, and adherence to law. I am doubtful of those who create firestorms on the surface of our streets, but cannot call them down from Heaven. However, such things may be mere harbingers of a greater wrath to come.

  • Apparently you’ve embraced alternative facts. The left attacked LBJ over Vietnam as much as it did Nixon, and protested as much. It drove LBJ from office because of his role in escalating the war. And those of us who were around then still hold Johnson responsible. JFK certainly got us in, but it’s trickier historically to hold him to account because he may have changed course given more time. The left applauds LBJ for the Civil Rights Act, but hated, and still hate, him for Vietnam, just as many on the left recognize Nixon for opening the relationship with China and signing legislation to create the EPA.

    Yes, we survived Nixon because we had a Democratic Congress that impeached him and drove him from office. Will the Republicans do the same to Trump if an illegal connection to Russia is found or if he ignores judicial rulings that his acts violate the Constitution?

    “His past record of duplicity or self deceit only makes me wonder at America’s willingness to bestow America’s highest office on him when it did.” Why do you think this sentence doesn’t apply equally to Trump? 1. Trump University. 2. “Nobody reads the Bible more than me.” 3. “I did not support the war in Iraq.” 4. “I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down…There were people that were cheering on the other side of New Jersey, where you have large Arab populations. They were cheering as the World Trade Center came down.” Just to name a few.

    As for ‘alternative facts,’ you misunderstand the concept or are intentionally downplaying it. This is not political lying which, I agree, is done by both the Dems and Reps. This is ‘1984’ disinformation. I suggest you read this written by one of your own who is honest enough to see the danger: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/opinion/sunday/why-nobody-cares-the-president-is-lying.html?ref=opinion

  • I prefer “intentionally downplaying it.” “There is nothing new under the sun,” to quote King Solomon, so pardon me if I don’t get my knickers in a twist over Mr. Trump’s comments. As to still holding Johnson responsible for his role in the Vietnam war, you cannot possibly do any harm to him, and are probably harming your own spirit by holding onto to something from the past that cannot be changed.

  • There we have it. Forget the past because there is nothing new under the sun. So, let’s repeat past mistakes. Quite the world view. This explains why you, Steve Bannon, David Duke and others don’t hold Hitler responsible for the Holocaust, or maybe even acknowledge it happened, because it would be ‘harming your own spirit by holding onto to (sic) something from the past that cannot be changed.’ Enjoy your modern-day Fuhrer’s rally tomorrow.

  • You make a compelling argument, just as Trump does every time he makes something up and follows it with “Believe me.”

  • God you are stupid, we know pig trump is a liar and con man, going against all biblical teaching what is wrong with you, as you kiss the pigs ads aren’t you afraid of God, your very soul is at stake

  • Not knowing me with greater depth than a mere posting, you are not qualified to assess my spiritual state. Nor is there any evidence of Christian charity or forbearance in your remark. The Lord has called us to love our enemies and bless those that spitefully use us.

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