Why it’s not just nominal evangelicals supporting Donald Trump

Faith leaders pray with President Trump after he signed a proclamation for a national day of prayer to occur on Sept. 3, 2017, in the Oval Office of the White House on Sept. 1, 2017, in Washington. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

(RNS) — Since Donald Trump became president, many of us have wondered: Why would reasonable, mainstream evangelicals support him?

Until now, we’ve tried to answer that question by analyzing it politically. But looking outside politics might actually provide the clue.

During the election campaign, many evangelicals consoled themselves in the face of Trump’s rise to power that it was only nominal evangelicals, those many millions of Americans who blithely call themselves “born-again” or retain some other slight, vestigial linkage with the great tradition of revivalism, who were supporting him. Real evangelicals, whom we might better call observant evangelicals — the people who regularly went to church, read their Bibles, prayed, tithed and so on — surely were supporting someone else.

Alas, the poll data so widely reported seem to provide no comfort of this sort at all. White evangelicals both nominal and observant supported Trump in large numbers, and still do.

A couple of explanatory factors have already been widely discussed. Unlike black evangelicals, whose worship typically features themes of corporate oppression, suffering and liberation, for most of this century white evangelicals have subsisted largely on a spiritual diet of highly individualized piety. Their preaching, hymnody and spiritual practices have combined to emphasize the central value of one’s personal relationship with Jesus. So long as that relationship remains intact, one might infer, everything else is relatively unimportant.

Except abortion. That, for a generation now, has been the No. 1 issue of our time. The deliberate choice by evangelical leaders —especially, but not only, those who were involved in the Moral Majority — to focus on abortion as the litmus test for righteousness in politics has meant that Candidate A might be more obviously Christian than Candidate B on a long list of important issues, but if Candidate B is “right” on abortion, Candidate B gets the evangelical vote.

What then if Candidate B is a blatantly impious person? Well, evangelicals are nothing if not pragmatic, and while they would prefer a candidate who prays and worships and reads the Bible like they do, if abortion is what really matters, then abortion is what really matters.

Beyond a narrow focus on personal piety and abortion, however, what about other economic or political issues? It’s not as if evangelicals don’t care about them. In fact, some evangelical leaders have tried to broaden the evangelical outlook and agenda to include such crucial items as religious persecution, sexual slavery, poverty, AIDS and more. And evangelicals, like anyone else, care about their own economic welfare.

So why Trump? Here two other factors come into play.

First, since fundamentalists lost their struggle to recapture the culture in the 1920s, and especially since the burgeoning of American wealth in the 1960s, evangelicals have developed a huge range of special purpose groups. Bewildering in their variety, from Bible clubs to motorcyclist associations, these special purpose organizations have also multiplied in the political sphere.

Such groups siphon off evangelical concern about these major issues so that those issues no longer figure large on Election Day. From World Vision to the International Justice Mission, evangelicals can route their concern to organizations they control instead of entrusting their concern to the uncertain vagaries of electoral politics.

This factor may be the crucial one. For it combines powerfully with the fact that evangelicals have been told since they were little to beware “the world” and “the powers” that govern it. So they hardly expect Washington to advance their agenda and have industriously developed a vast alternative culture of their own NGOs instead.

When Election Day arrives, therefore, what matters ne plus ultra is abortion … plus — and here’s the second factor — whatever else really bothers evangelicals that doesn’t ever get addressed from evangelical pulpits focused on personal piety: job worries, tax worries, immigration worries and security worries. No evangelical NGO can help with those, either. So evangelicals, like everybody else, look to the state and, like everybody else, do so without any clear Christian teaching to guide them.

There is a direct line, then, from evangelicals abandoning Jimmy Carter for Ronald Reagan, the divorced candidate who went to church less than any president since George Washington, through Sarah Palin and her bizarre family and stranger politics, to Donald Trump.

Along comes a guy, that is, who names people’s fears in just the language they might use, and seems to make time to consult with evangelical leaders (even if they’re the showy prosperity gospel types), and says he’s going to do the Most Important Thing a President Can Do, namely, appoint pro-life justices to the Supreme Court (since evangelicals have long since abandoned faith in their fellow Americans to legislate a change to Roe v. Wade) … and he runs against people in the GOP who do not share at least some of their crucial fears (e.g., about jobs, taxes, immigration and security) … and then against a Democrat who, regardless of all the ways she might appear to be more Christian than he is, openly sides with Planned Parenthood and the other worldly powers of Washington and Wall Street — well, why be surprised about the way white evangelicals voted?

The interesting question is: Has anything changed in that picture to affect the next election? I’m not seeing it yet.

(John G. Stackhouse Jr. holds the Samuel J. Mikolaski Chair of Religious Studies at Crandall University in Moncton, Canada. His 10th book is just out: “Why You’re Here: Ethics for the Real World.” The views expressed in this opinion piece do not necessarily reflect those of Religion News Service.)

About the author

John G. Stackhouse Jr.


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  • You left out same sex marriage. That issue is probably as energizing for evangelicals as abortion.

    After all, who would ever have thought that the people the despise the most might be declared their legal, moral, social, sexual, familial, marital, cultural and human equals.

    I actually think that that is even MORE important than abortion. Abortion has been legal for 45 years, and despite the vast resources of the anti abortion industry, and the vast amounts of money and power involved, they’ve been able to do nothing about it. And I think the anti abortion industry wants it that way. No reason to kick the cow out of the house when you need milk.

    But picking on those uppity figs? A whole new power and money stream.

    The biggest trick 2Rump ever pulled was convincing bigots, homophobes, ammosexuals, misogynists, and dominionists that they were patriotic Americans and good Christians.

  • Except they are losing on that front – at least with younger American evangelicals. That is why there is an international reach as well to sway others and take culture wars beyond the American border.

  • Hating abortion and gays is the central organizing principle of Evangelicals now. It’s ALL they care about. Well, that and Evangelical leaders telling their followers that if they can gain enough political power they can write their Evangelical beliefs into law, and force every American to bow their knee to them. They don’t believe in democracy, liberty, or the US Constitution – they want a religious theocracy. See Roy Moore.

  • You are correct that Stackhouse seriously (sorta totally), missed the impact and influence of the gay marriage issue.

    Also he really underestimates the commonality black evangelicals have with white and latino evangelicals when it comes to “emphasizing the central value of a personal relationship with Jesus.” and “a spiritual diet of highly individualized piety.”

    It’s just like the national media. Miss important stuff, and then run around wailing & wondering why Trump won.

  • There is a level of elegance and simplicity to this idea that resonates, though I agree with others below that gay marriage was missed, that for many white evangelicals it is as simple as being anti-abortion (pro-life feels like the wrong term here). They will vote for anyone who is anti abortion no matter whatever else is said it seems.

  • He’s talking generally, as in when any election day arrives, it’s no surprise who they’ll vote for, given all the factors he’s laid out. .

  • I wouldn’t say all evangelicals, but far too many of them. All we can do is keep voting, s
    Telling our truths, helping however we can.

  • To give you a good idea of how absolutely moral relativists, aka bible believing Christians, operate. According to the far-right Federalist, Christians should feel comfortable voting for “morally questionable” candidates like Roy Moore because “God uses evil men to carry out his purposes.”

    God could just as easily choose a good man, but god doesn’t. Grabby McKitten is fine. Makes you wonder about god’s morals, or at least, his judgment. Personally, I think someone who was banned from the local mall should probably be banned from the senate, but that’s just me. In a world where a self admitted adulterer, fornicator, thrice married prevarication, whose relationship to truth is only inversely exceeded by his relationship to a foreign power which does not love us, can be literally worshipped—THANK GOD FOR TRUMP— anything is possible.

    But at least they admit that Ol’ Roy is evil, or at least, morally questionable. And what they are also saying is that they don’t give a damn.

    No, literally! They don’t give a damn!!!!!

  • The issue of abortion is not like an argument over the appropriate capital gains tax rate. If the baby in the womb is a human being, then abortion is the moral equivalent of the Holocaust in Europe or racially motivated lynchings in America. I would oppose any candidate who thought the right to kill others because of their religion (the Holocaust) or the right to kill others because of their race (lynchings) should be enshrined in our Constitution. Equally, and just as fervently, I will oppose any candidate who thinks the right to kill unborn babies should be in our Constitution. In should not surprise you that others who also believe the unborn baby is a human being would chose to vote for a candidate whom they find distasteful in many other aspects, because they are confident that candidate will oppose abortion.

  • The Constitution already forbids abortion. You need to discover how and why the Constitution forbids abortion and then you can educate the world once again.Unfortunately, you are likely to run out of time to do this. Great civilizations are not created in a day, they often disappear in a day.

    The U.S. has had its’ day.

  • The evangelical fixation on abortion is bizarre, since the Bible does not condemn abortion. The folks who produced the OT, the Jews, regarded human personhood as beginning at birth, at the first breath. The Hebrew word “nephesh” refers to that which breathes. See Gen 1:27 and 2:7. And the NT is simply silent on abortion. When Roe v Wade was handed down in 1973 prominent evangelicals lauded it Their fixation now seems to be based on their disregard for rights of conscience and religious liberty, for women’s rights generally, and for our US tradition of church-state separation. — Edd

  • Q: “Why it’s not just nominal evangelicals supporting Donald Trump”

    A: Because bigotry and malice are much stronger motivations than alleged religious doctrine. They are great tools to get people to vote against one’s economic interests.

    Honestly, who really benefits from:
    1. Attacking access to healthcare coverage
    2. Attacking funding for impoverished families
    3. A tax plan which the most of the nation bears major financial burdens, crushing debt, and loss of helpful services to provide tax breaks for those who hoard wealth
    4. Attacking Net Neutrality
    5. Attacking voting rights for urban poor, elderly and minorities
    6. Attacking agencies monitoring against large scale fraud and corruption in the finance industry
    7. Enabling predatory lending

    Its not the overwhelming majority of the American population.

  • Well it was a substitute for their former bee in their bonnet, legalized racism. Pretty much the anti-choice movement came from the ashes of the segregationists.

  • Spam bomb. This poster will not respond to reactions to (presumably his) word salad spam.

    The anti-abortion view depends on pretending a fetus is a person, a being with autonomy and a legal existence but its mother is not. That the mother is merely property of the self-righteous nabob who wants to trespass upon her life and has no rights or existence beyond (usually) his say so.

    There are no such things as unborn babies. Babies by definition are those already born. Personhood has to begin at birth because it is not a zero sum existence. Until one can separate a fetus from its mother, the fetus has no independent autonomous existence. But the mother does. So only the mother’s interests have to matter here.

    There is no moral basis for the anti-abortion POV. It is all about imposing one’s will on others, s1utshaming tactics, and treating people with complete and utter contempt.

    the_enemy_hates_clarity would have no problem supporting a cheat, rapist, embezzler, or terrorist if they claim to do something to attack the personhood of women. In doing so (presumably) he will support any kind of attacks on the very nature of our way of life, to create such an undue privilege over others.

  • “The Constitution already forbids abortion.”

    Um, no. Never did. That was as dishonest and ignorant as can be expected from fetus worship.

    “The U.S. has had its’ day.”

    Good to know how much you despise the American way of life and everything it stands for.

  • Yearning for the good old days when being other than white limited you to menial, low wage employment (including serving “your betters”)?

  • WHAT?! 13 months later and we still pretend to care what happened on November 6, 2016?

    (1) That Indian government declared levels of air pollution in Delhi an emergency situation, closing schools and construction sites? I don’t think so.

    (2) That TV personality and actress Audrina Patridge (31) wedded professional BMX dirt bike rider Corey Bohan in Hawaii? I don’t think so.

    (3) That Zoltan Kocsis, Hungarian pianist and conductor, died of cancer at 64? I don’t think so.

    (4) That a South Carolina man who kidnapped a woman confessed to 7 murders? I don’t think so.

    (5) That U.S.-backed Kurdish-led forces launched a campaign to retake ISIS capital Raqqa? I don’t think so.

    (6) That a missing Chibok schoolgirl got rescued from Boko Haram with her baby? I don’t think so.

    (7) That The-81% of Evangelical Whitey Folks kicked Hillary Clinton out of the Whitey House? I don’t think so.

  • Because in reality our modern society is evil to Many fundamentalists of the Abrahamic religions and they want to change it – some peacefully, others through terrorism.

  • wow – y’all just have all kinds of smart (NOT) things to say about abortion.
    Taint no group sin folks – tis all individual sin.
    Murder is a sin – be it in the womb or out of the womb.
    All this sexuality stuff is a SIN. All of it. Straits, gays – does not matter.
    So before you come after me and my beliefs – consult your Lord & Master.
    Hate the Sin not the Sinner.
    We are all sinners.

  • You have no clue floydlee – none! The ‘Black’ churches – ie; their members will answer for their supporting of abortion. What an oxymoron ‘Black Lives Matter’ is – WWJD – u do not want to find out – any of you.

  • you HAVE a problem boy – ya don’t don’t believe. I see ya do believe in lies – ie; banned from mall – what a crock.
    So Troll – what ya a doin on a religious site? Trolling for Satan – got it.

  • A site about religion, not a religious site. The banning from the mall was reported with numerous people corroborating it.
    But hey, Moore-is-less has variously claimed that he never knew the women in question, despite the corroboration from people they told at the time, and despite his own admission that he always asked the girls mamas for permission before he dated them.

    Now, what were you saying?

  • Seek God 1st spuddie before you spout your sick stuff.
    What is wrong with you people???
    Life begins with a spark of Light when the egg & sperm fuse. A NEW soul ( As in a Child of God ) has just been made. And you fools think it is just a piece of protoplasm. A few cells that have invaded the females body.
    Pity of you – when your last breath comes.
    We Pray for all of you.

  • I’m a big fan of Occam’s Razor, as I suspect most people here are.

    The explanation for the behavior of evangelicals is fairly simple: they’re lying, not-well-educated, incurious, fearful, racist hypocrites who are not at all good at critical thinking.

    And those are their less-bad qualities….

  • Bruce, I would like to know where Our Constitution forbids abortion.
    But you just might be right about about the US having had it’s day.
    For all you unbelievers out there – How many times did God let His ‘Chosen’ people go into slavery??? 3/4/5 times.
    The US could follow the same path if He has planned it that way.
    Y’all can figure out who the en-slaver will be. Then the old liar in chief is goina get his own damn self a locked up in Hell – by who – why by a Female – of course. Satan tried for the Crown & the Bride and missed and the Bride is going to lock him up.
    Being a mystic is like being a Prophet of old. Ya get stoned a lot – even by your own priests.

  • Don’t forget about Aquinas! He, like the Jews, believed that life began around 40 days after conception, which means that there is no question, no debate, about the fact that abortion is OK up to day 40.

    Of course, the Catholic church, with its strong discomfort about sex, omits that.

  • nothing per say but it seems the term applies to something different than it may imply from the start. pro life is functionally anti abortion

    that does not however make one pro life in a broad sense. many can a do claim a prolonged life label but show little care for the impacts of war or the death penalty. moreover pro life in its current state cause a great deal of harm because it’s focus in on abortions nit all people or their lives.

  • Ooooh, if I don’t take you seriously, your supernatural invisible sky daddy will punish me!

    Its funny to hear someone talk about respect for lives when their position entails treating people as their personal property.

    You mistake having an opinion with having a say. You can believe anything about life begins or what a fetus is. But none of that entitles you to make decisions for women as to what goes on in their bodies. Not your body, none of your business.

  • But not after 1968. Then they became Republicans. But you know that already and are just being a troll.

    Does anyone not call you an ignoramus for bringing up such half facts?

    That really is one of the stupidest forms of trollery in the conservative canon.

  • go back 2/3 thousand years ed – same thing – just no whites involved. All History does is repeat – over and over again. As mankind becomes more, (civilized?), proficient in killing his fellow beings – tis still just History repeating. Because we refuse to follow God and His Commands.

  • most of us are sinners Jim – hence, sin brings about evil – just that some are more Evil than others.

  • It is not simply hatred of abortion and gays. It is hatred, period. In what section of the US are lievangelicals concentrated? And what section of the country has a particularly strong history of hatred–of city-dwellers, African Americans, “liberals”, educated folks, etc etc?

  • Unless you are a woman, poor, gay, minority, or believer in something other than your faith. Then none of those lives matter to you.

    Your fetus worshiping POV depends on treating women as your personal property. Not as people.

  • “WHAT?! 13 months later and we still pretend to care what happened on November 6, 2016?”

    Don’t look at me. Conservatives bring it up.any time there is current criticism of the presidency.

  • Hmm….let me think….who is more likely to engage in name-calling, an evangelical or a mainstream believer? An evangelical or a heathen?

    You may call it :”uneducated”. I call it “data”.

  • Even then they got it wrong Mr Kay.
    And da Catholics – they don’t like my comments (Thoughts) about sex. All sex is a sin. period. Procreation is Not a sin. But yet sex is a sin – think about it – might come to ya.
    Do you see what Satan did? All you purported believers – do ya understand just what Satan did in Paradise? Evangelical’s don’t have a clue. Some Catholic’s do and did in the past.
    Y’all have no idea of just how warped human kind is, because of Satan & his evil lies.
    But there will come a time – oh yeah – there will be an end to this (Time) as it is known.
    Time will cease – His Kingdom will have no end – just as it had no beginning.
    “Amen, amen – I say unto you.” Read His Commands my friends.

  • you do not have to take me seriously spuddie – you might want to take your invisible ‘sky daddy’, as u put it, Very Seriously. He is sky daddy to all – love that term – going use it in the future. He is Loving not vengeful and He wants all of His Children to be with Him for eternity.
    It b that simple my friend.

  • wow – what warped your out look?
    hate the Sin – not the sinner.
    Since I live at a high altitude – must be the lack of oxygen. lol
    They throw stones at me up here – or they would if they could find me.

  • . You don’t understand how much you have told us about yourself and your “thinking”, do you? There’s nothing I could add that would give anyone a clearer picture of your “thinking”.

  • oh – about religion – the mall thing was a crock – like I stated. Go find the actual response from the authorities. Guess the corroborators lied? do ya think?

  • As for Moore – if he has sinned in that area – he – like us all will receive judgment.
    A quote from a radio program years ago – “Only the Shadow knows what evil lurks in the heart of man”

  • Hummm – wonder where those thoughts came from – hummmmm thin air? I have told you nothing about myself – except that I am a sinner. I have shared those thoughts that came from – hummmmm just where did they come from? Got any ideas, guesses?

  • wow if they were my ‘personal’ property – I’d be what – a KING – but – in today’s world an Islamist at least.

  • All manner to killing is a sin. ALL – He stated that – ya know – the Two Commands and from that following the Ten.
    Oh gee – that’s what got Moore in trouble – ‘The Ten’

  • sure but one can, and many do, be pro life and pro war/death penalty /etc using the current labels.

    so pro life seems like a bad label cause its really only anti abortion

  • Not for lack of trying. Its not like your view is different from Islamicists in any material way. The only difference is choice of headwear and access to heavy weaponry.

    Christian fundamentalists really have to stop using the ridiculous response, “at least we’re not Muslims”. Because you guys share the same goals, methods (where available) and distaste for freedom and individual liberties.

    When Christian fundamentalists have the backing of governments which aren’t beholden to protecting individual liberties, they promote atrocity.

  • He is Loving not vengeful…
    so loving that he invented both hell and eternity just in case you don’t love him back.

  • their fetus fetish is in high gear. The Dumpy’s tax bill contains a Personhood clause saying fertilized eggs accrue all the human rights of a person who is born. It would/will result in a loss of agency, choice, and human rights for the woman.

  • Funny you said that. Just the other day “Conservatives bring it up” again, how that in (2) there, “TV personality and actress Audrina Patridge (31) wedded professional BMX dirt bike rider Corey Bohan in Hawaii”! And they did that to you, too. Sorry, girl.

  • No idea who they are and I am too lazy (and possibly drunk) to google it. So I will feign knowledge and say:

    LOL! That’s a good one. 🙂

  • You can’t sell tickets to your show at home so you’re taking it on the road to fleece folks who haven’t seen your schtick before? Why not adapt and keep or bring the young people to the flock? Too hard?

  • How about voting for a Senator to make legislation that he wouldn’t follow when he was a justice? He has said, he adjudicated according to God’s law, as interpreted by him. That should have disqualified him from the jump.

  • How would you know; there are other ways God expresses his dissatisfaction with mankind in the way he dealt with babies.

  • “Pro abortion” or “Pro choice.” It doesn’t matter what you call it, it still means a dead baby.

  • I am not surprised that white evangelicals voted for Donald Trump instead of Hillary Clinton. What surprises me is that white evangelicals wanted Donald Trump to be the Republican nominee. Despite all of the claims to the contrary, I do not believe that Donald Trump is any kind of Christian, much less an evangelical Christian. My belief is that accepting him as an evangelical Christian is an exercise in wish fulfillment. On the other hand, several of the other Republican candidates for President were definitely evangelical Christians and had given evidence by their lives and their statements over several years that such was the case. Anyone who is familiar with Donald Trump’s activities in the last three or four decades will know that, even apart from his sexual activities,Donald Trump is a racist, a bigot, a liar and a thief. He has hired undocumented workers, he has discriminated in housing, he has cheated investors, he has cheated those who enrolled in Trump “University” and so on. White evangelical voters are guilty of intellectual laziness in failing to investigate Trump further than television commercials and bumper stickers. White evangelicals spent more time in learning new investment techniques or new sexual techniques or new theological deviations than they did in learning about the Republican nominee whom they wanted to put into the Oval Office. As usual many white evangelicals left “thinking” up to their “leaders” and put total trust in what their “leaders” told them. These are the same “leaders” who sold them “young-earth creationism” and multiple theological novelties.

  • None is so blind as he who will not see. “Light is come into the world, but men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”

  • Since Donald Trump became president, many of us have wondered: Why would reasonable, mainstream evangelicals support him?

    A: because of the alternative….

  • Amongst other things, I get really annoyed how the term “evangelical” is applied. From what I’ve seen and heard, there is nothing evangelical in this group’s theology or approach. They are people (I hesitate to call them christians) who have enshrined conservative ideology as tenet of their faith, and this seems to override all other considerations. Also, their utterances reflect a theology that as an evangelical I don’t recognise.

  • As a bible-believing christian I am not a moral relativist! That is a contradiction in terms. How about refining your definitions somewhat?

  • Religious Stupidicus: An ape like creature with the power of speech, but afflicted with a psychological disorder brought on by their parent-culture religious imprints limiting their ability to truly accept and respect differing: people, cultures and beliefs. They reject natural world facts conflicting with their preconceived belief-identity based on; religion, folklore and superstition and the social-rules of their parent culture. They are relics from an early period in human social development when small villages grew into feudal kingdoms ruled by King-Clergy decree that used religious rituals and superstition to illicit social control and hierarchical pecking order.

    They live on today in religious organizations whom seek to control, dominated and manipulate others, while hiding their transgressions against humanity by subverting responsibility to a spiritual authority: the god of their parent culture which is usually determined by their birth location. They gather in social groups to reinforce their specific tribal group belief systems, but internal power conflicts always fragment them into dissenting sub-groups. Avoid contact with Religious Stupidicus and never give them your money nor allow them to gain political office and they’ll be, for the most part, harmless.

  • That shalt not murder. It is immoral.

    Yet god murders everyone in the world, including not only all of the sinners, because he forgot to remove original sin, including the little babies who couldn’t have sin even if they wanted to, except an old drunk and his family.


    Divorce for any reason except for adultery is a sin. We must vote for values candidates, so we’ll vote for a three times married, self admitted fornicator and adulterer, known as Grabby McPussy. God sometimes picks evil men to do his work, so we’ll vote for the evil man. But if he turns out to be a homosexual evil an, we won’t.


  • But back at you, Sikivu Hutchinson, an atheist herself (cf. Moral Combat: Black Atheists, Gender Politics, and the Values Wars, 2011) has this to say about you and your species:

    “There is little analysis of the relationship between economic disenfranchisement, race, gender, and religiosity in [atheists’] critiques of organized religion. … [Such criticism, having] limited cultural relevance for people of color … preserves and reproduces the status quo of white supremacy in its arrogant insularity. In this universe, oppressed minorities are more imperiled by their own investment in organized religion than [by] white supremacy. Liberation is not a matter of fighting against white racism … and classism but of throwing off the shackles of superstition. … [And so, these atheists] provide no sociological insight into why organized religion and religiosity have an enduring hold on disenfranchised communities in the richest, most powerful nation on the planet. Religion is only one apparatus for draconian repression and inequity. Secular institutions that enforce and uphold oppressive hierarchies must also be actively challenged within a humanist framework.”

    Don’t even try to respond here to Sikivu Hutchinson, atheist. Because that’s only make you NON-“Religious Stupidicus”!

  • So, Daniel Fincke, an atheist himself (cf. “Why I Criticize My Fellow Atheists”, Camels with Hammers, June 17, 2013), is right, then, about you, Howard Kay:

    (1) “Atheists … have bad habits, [and do] fall into intellectual errors either peculiar to [them] or common to people generally.”

    (2) They think that “it’s … up to [their] enemies to assume the best of [themselves, rather than] up to [them] to demonstrate it.”

    (3) They “settle for sloppy thinking or become ethically lazy or self-righteously self-satisfied. … They give little impression they are interested in the kinds of ongoing introspection and self-suspicion that are invaluable to personal growth.”

    (4) They’re “just looking for flaws in theism or religious people’s behavior out of some animus … prejudice or malice. … Some atheists really do seem to have gotten into this movement to indulge in their feelings of superiority to those they pitilessly disparage as ‘stupid’ or wicked. … They are just in this to throw rocks at the ‘retards’. I have no sympathies with such people and am ashamed that they’re associated with me. … Their failures make all atheists, including me, look bad and set back our cause.”

  • Is this redefining terms? You’re being a bit obscure. Are you suggesting that God is self-contradictory? And who is the old drunk? Noah?

    Are you suggesting that because Moore and Trump are the evil men they are that God is again contradicting himself?

  • Nope. I’m suggesting that people who use God to justify what cannot be justified by any other means are contradicting themselves.