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Muslims find Jews standing behind them in opposition to Pompeo’s confirmation

CIA Director Mike Pompeo, picked to be the next secretary of state, smiles after his introductions before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee during a confirmation hearing on his nomination to be Secretary of State, Thursday, April 12, 2018 on Capitol Hill in Washington. Pompeo's remarks will be the first chance for lawmakers and the public to hear directly from the former Kansas congressman about his approach to diplomacy and the role of the State Department, should he be confirmed to lead it. (AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin)

(RNS) — As members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee begin hearings on whether to confirm Mike Pompeo as secretary of state, they will consider dozens of objections from Muslim groups — and a number from prominent Jewish ones.

Both accuse him of maligning Muslims.

Pompeo, the outgoing CIA director whom President Trump nominated to replace Rex Tillerson for the top diplomatic post, has a record of anti-Muslim remarks and has been associated with anti-Muslim conspiracy theorists. His confirmation hearings begin Thursday (April 12).

Among his most troubling remarks: Pompeo’s false accusation that U.S. Muslim leaders remained silent after the Boston Marathon bombing five years ago, and his suggestion that they were “potentially complicit” in the bombing.

For years, many Jews and Muslims have found themselves on opposite sides of  contentious foreign policy questions relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Their alliance against Pompeo may surprise some, but the Jewish groups say they feel compelled to question the nomination.

Among those expressing deep concerns about Pompeo’s confirmation are the American Jewish World Service, the Anti-Defamation League and the National Council of Jewish Women.

The ADL issued senators a series of questions it would like them to ask Pompeo. For example:

  • “Will you affirm that Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of American Muslims, is fundamentally compatible with democracy and commit to not calling this affirmation into question in the future?”
  • “Will you disavow your repeated insinuation that non-Muslims should fear the intentions of their Muslim neighbors, and will you commit to not spreading that calumny again?”

Other Jewish groups, such as the American Jewish World Service, went on the record opposing his confirmation.

“As Jews, we clearly have been victims of sanction, prejudice and coercion ourselves,” said Robert Bank, president and CEO of American Jewish World Service, a human rights organization. “We identify with other marginalized groups and oppose the nomination of anyone who would pursue policies of prejudice and intolerance.”

The thrust of Pompeo’s remarks about Muslims that have drawn the most ire revolve around the idea that Islam is an inherently violent religion and that most U.S. Muslim organizations want to replace American law with Islamic law, known as Shariah.

“There are organizations and networks here in the United States tied to radical Islam in deep and fundamental ways,” Pompeo said in a 2015 interview on a radio program hosted by Frank Gaffney Jr., an anti-Muslim conspiracist. “They’re not just in places like Libya and Syria and Iraq, but in places like Coldwater, Kansas, and small towns all throughout America.”

Scores of Muslim groups have objected to Pompeo’s confirmation. Muslim Advocates, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, the Arab American Institute, the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee and others have sent letters to the members of the Foreign Relations Committee pointing out Pompeo’s record of anti-Muslim statements.

Many Muslims, Jews and Christians have also challenged Pompeo’s opposition to the Iran nuclear deal, his past support for waterboarding and other forms of torture, and his opposition to gay marriage. (Pompeo opposed the Supreme Court ruling allowing same-sex marriage and the repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on military service by LGBTQ people.)

This is not the first time in recent years that Muslims and Jews have joined together to advance a shared public policy aim or come to one another’s aid when either has been the victim of a hate crime. In addition to opposing some of the Trump administration’s appointments, they have also united around the travel ban policy as well as the administration’s crackdown on undocumented residents.

“It’s been really heartening to see that there have been so many different groups coming forward, whether it’s religious groups or civil rights organizations and all sorts of advocacy groups,” said Madihha Ahussain, special counsel for anti-Muslim bigotry at Muslim Advocates, a national legal advocacy and educational organization that opposes Pompeo’s nomination.

While tensions persist between American Jews and Muslims, Jill Jacobs, executive director of T’ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights, said there’s been growing recognition that the two faiths can work together.

“On the local level, we’re hearing about on-the-ground cooperation that’s happening between Jews and Muslims,” whether it’s a Jewish congregation supporting Muslims after an attack on a mosque or Muslims supporting Jewish victims of hate crimes, Jacobs said.

Pompeo’s remarks before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Thursday will be the first chance for lawmakers and the public to hear from the former Kansas congressman about how he would handle the job of secretary of state. He will need bipartisan support to move the nomination to the Senate floor.

Republicans have a narrow 11-10 majority on the committee. Republican Rand Paul of Kentucky, a member of the committee, has come out against Pompeo.

About the author

Yonat Shimron

Yonat Shimron is an RNS National Reporter and Senior Editor.

81 Comments

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  • Why the concern about Islam: Many reasons and to name a few:

    o “Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends.” (Surah 5:51)
    o
    “Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons…he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home…” (Surah 8:12-)

    “Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme.” (Surah 8:36-)

    “…make war on the leaders of unbelief…Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them…” (Surah 9:12-)

    “Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]…until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.” (Surah 9:29-)

    “It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it.” (Surah 9:31-)

    “If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men.” (Surah 9:37-)

    “Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home.” (Surah 9:73)

    “Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them.” (Surah 9:121-)

    “Say: ‘Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom…” (Surah 17:111)

    “‘How shall I bear a child,’ she [Mary] answered, ‘when I am a virgin…?’ ‘Such is the will of the Lord,’ he replied. ‘That is no difficult thing for Him…God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!…Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood…” (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

    “Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him…He has given you the name of Muslims…” (Surah 22:78-)

    “Blessed are the believers…who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)…These are the heirs of Paradise…” (Surah 23:1-5-)

    “Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” (Surah 48:29)

    “Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?…Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents…They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets…Blessed be the name of your Lord…” (Surah 55:52-66-)

    Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

    Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”

    Ahhh, then there is the “out of context” excuses. Imams and Islamic terrorists don’t follow your excuses but follow the literal word of the Koran.

  • The key words in the request are “as practiced”. Per scripture, Judaism and Islam are inherently violent and require adherants to participate. Christianity not at all per the Christian Greek scriptures. In practice, Christianity is covered with the blood of innocents. Judaism is tame and unfettered Islam is dangerous. In the US, I do not fear Muslims in general. Do some want Sharia? Sure, just as some Christians want a theocracy. As long as they do so within the law, good luck.

  • If a Muslim were being appointed to public office, would that person be required to comment or repudiate on what the Quran states:

    9:5. But when the forbidden months are past, then
    fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them,
    beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem

    9:29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with
    willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    Jizya- Non-Muslim tax.

  • Christians can’t just accept the Hebrew Scriptures as inspired when it suits them and distance themselves from them when it doesn’t. The Old Testament is as much a part of the heritage of Christianity as the New.

    Besides, whether or not the texts of a particular religion incite violence is a matter of parable, metaphor, hyperbole, poetry and a host of other literary and stylistic elements that defy simplistic interpretation. My observation is that believers tend to rationalize away the difficult passages in their own scriptures and hold others to an unfair standard of literalism.

    I do agree with your last point.

  • Jill Jacobs represents the bagel and lox Woody Allen Jews. Jews who show up in synagogue more then twice a year. And don’t think Hamas and Hezbollah are wonderful organizations. They’re good with Pompeo

  • Christians aren’t a religion. Christianity is.

    Christianity isn’t inherently violent, but when practitioners of any faith become seduced by such things as power and wealth, they tend to become oppressive.

    That’s one among many reasons why church and state should be separate.

  • Once again, putting it all in 21st century perspective:

    Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten
    seconds: Priceless !!!

    As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    There was no Gabriel i.e.Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    There was no Easter i.e.
    Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    Sacred/revered cows, monkey
    gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings
    (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that
    we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

    Added details available upon written request.

    A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    “The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally,
    Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely
    different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother’s womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. “

  • Religions are fulll of contradictions and, therefore, should be left out of these hearings of a political nature.

  • If a Christian or a Jew gets appointed to an office, should he repudiate this?

    From Deuteronomy 13, surely a moral commandment from god himself.

    If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand s? shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

  • But they do accept the scriptures when it suits them. And they have invented a great many rationalizations to allow it.

    Eating shrimp is an abomination. Gay sex is an abomination.

    But I want my shrimp cocktail, and so they must not be the same things at all.

  • “They” is a fairly broad characterization and not particularly helpful. There are many varieties of Christians.

    Most Christians today understand that dietary laws in the Bible were based on the likelihood of contracting illness from certain foods. Given modern food preparation techniques, unless one is a fundamentalist of the most extreme kind, nobody considers such restrictions binding today.

    More to the point, there is a difference between grappling with the underlying wisdom of the Scriptures and feeling the need to take every word literally.

  • There are many varieties of Christians. That’s my whole point.

    But you also illustrated my point. Dietary laws were promulgated with the same language as the so called moral restrictions. Either it’s the word of god, or it isn’t. Either an abomination is an abomination, or it isn’t when someone wants their bacon wrapped shrimp.

    The question is also: which is underlying wisdom, and which is convenient isn’t, and which is the factual and logical misunderstandings of a people 2000 years and a 7niverse away from us in knowledge, understanding, moral,s culture, and language?,

  • Hence the grappling.

    I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but I do know that it’s good for society to try to figure these things out independent of religious belief. The key question about gay marriage, for example, isn’t whether or not it’s an “abomination” (which isn’t a matter of law) but whether or not society is ready to accept it. Seems to me that question has been answered.

  • The fun of your patient explanations to impatient fools is that the rest of us get nicely educated on the finer points of an issue in the process. As always, I am a fan of your remarks.

  • Well, some of society has accepted it. But die hard, very conservative Catholics and fundamentalists have not, hence their infatuation with Trump.

  • That’s true. We Christians are totally violent.

    Why, just the other day, I played a couple rounds of “Armored Core” on the old Playstation Two. I loaded up on the fiery Laser Rifle, the huge Grenade Launcher (gotta love them mushroom clouds!!), and of course the Oversized Rockets with the tiny triangle printed on the launcher.

    Sinful pleasures all! I am so ashamed of my violent self!! Thank you for exposing my secret mayhem and mess.

  • People do or don’t accept things for a variety of reasons, some rational and some not. Not much we can do about it except continue to make a case for those things we feel strongly about.

    Moving on. Peace.

  • Seeing as it’s the same god, one might evencall him remarkably consistent in his calls for murder.

  • THERE’S HOPE YET: “Republican Rand Paul of Kentucky, a member of the committee, has come out against Pompeo.”

    BUT HOLD ON. “Rand Paul”?! Doesn’t everybody around here at St. RNS hate the guy, though? Even for “com[ing] out against Pompeo”?

  • You sure are a voice of fairness around here. And patience. For somebody – anybody – to get past loaded one-liners to the point that we can just have a decent conversation on point about the reading material.

    I respect that, brother.

  • In Europe there is a version of jizya. – in many of the countries, citizens pay a church tax regardless of whether they go to church or not – kind of like the state doing (forced) tithing.

  • How quickly, one forgets, or ignores, the questioning of Ms. Barrett for a appellate judgeship, such as if she was a “faithful Catholic”., by some of our US senators.

  • Because your take on it is fiction.

    She said in public statements that her religious beliefs will override consideration of the law and upholding it. She put it out there to make it fair game. If not for the statements, it would have been a religious test.

    Good to know you are not only ignorant of the constitution but you look for excuses to violate its principles. You do not refute how inappropriate and illegal a religious test is for public office. You just want to violate it for personal benefit. You are a terrible person

    The great thing about whataboutism is how it demonstrates the speaker is of low moral character.

  • The current problem is radical Islam. America needs the best person to deal with the problem. Right now that is President Trump and Mike Pompeo.

  • Why, what’s wrong with what the previous Republican Party’s US presidents had to say and did about Islam & Muslims? Why is Trump better than these fellow Republicans in terms of Muslims & Islam? Give me your answer in 24 hours. GO.

    Dwight Eisenhower, June 28, 1957: “My Islamic friends … I am convinced that our common goals are both right and promising. Faithful to the demands of justice and of brotherhood, each working according to the lights of his own conscience, our world must advance along the paths of peace. … The countries of Islam have added much to the advancement of mankind. … Civilization owes to the Islamic world some of its most important tools and achievements. From fundamental discoveries in medicine to the highest planes of astronomy, the Muslim genius has added much to the culture of all peoples. That genius has been a wellspring of science, commerce and the arts, and has provided for all of us many lessons in courage and in hospitality.”

    Ronald Reagan, February 11, 1985: “Christians, … and Muslims alike … worship the same God. … The people of Afghanistan, with their blood, courage, and faith, are an inspiration to the cause of freedom everywhere. … The citizens of the Western democracies and the Muslim world, by all that they believe to be true and just, should stand together in opposition to those who would impose dictatorship on all of mankind.”

    George H.W. Bush, September 4, 1990: “America is home to millions of Moslems who are free to live, work, and worship in accord with the traditions and teachings of Islam.” November 22, 1990: “From the prophecies of Isaiah to the teachings of Islam, the holy books that are our common heritage speak often of the many blessings bestowed upon mankind, often of the love of liberty, often of the cause of peace.” March 8, 1991: “I don’t find anything in … the principal teachings of Islam that put us in contradiction at all. In fact, the principles are the same as … kindness … be[ing] good to your neighbor … love, and … tak[ing] care of children. … So there’s no anti-Islam.”

    George W. Bush, September 20, 2001: “Muslims throughout the world … we respect your faith. It’s practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. … The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends.” September 26, 2001: “I’m proud of the Muslim leaders across America who have risen up and who have not only insisted that America be strong, but that America keep the values intact that have made us so unique and different – the values of respect, the values of freedom to worship the way we see fit. And I also appreciate the prayers to the universal God.”

  • The number of Terror Deaths per 10,000 US population is .17 (2001 – 2015). There are around 7M Muslims, the number of Terror Deaths per Muslim is 9.33 per 10,000 Muslims (2001-2015). Basically, Muslims are around 145X more likely to kill US Citizens than non-Muslims. You just have to look at terror risk in terms of contingent probabilities. It is very reasonable that non-Muslims should fear the intentions of their Muslim neighbors.

  • In the NT the Hebrew dietary laws (in fact the laws of Moses in general) were dispensed with. Gay sex remained an abomination.

  • Speaking of ignorance:
    Article VI of the U.S. Constitution states that

    “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”.

  • It still wasn’t a religious test. But you seem to want one anyway if the person is Muslim. Its good to know you can quote the Constitution. Too bad you don’t understand it.

  • Gentile Christians not having dietary restrictions actually had nothing to do with the hazards of food preparation. The reason why the Jewish Christians of the Jerusalem Church did not impose them upon Gentile Christians was because they had never been imposed upon righteous Gentiles before, neither by the Torah itself nor any rabbinical teaching, and they saw no reason to change that. Sexual purity, on the other hand, had always been expected of righteous Gentiles per the Noahide standard, and therefore carried over into the church as well.

  • It does, because the reason why we have no dietary restrictions today is the same reason why the Jerusalem Church declined to retain them for Gentile believers.

  • Thanks, but I think I’m best qualified to state what my comment was or wasn’t about.

    The main reason we don’t have the same dietary restrictions today that the people of the Old Testament did is that they’re no longer needed. Religious rules aren’t arbitrary. If the context in which they’re first established changes, so must they. To believe otherwise is to believe in a capricious God.

  • Orthodox Jews still observe the dietary laws. Try to convince them they’re no longer “needed.”

    The decision about whether Gentile Christians need to observe dietary laws or not (more accurately, whether they need to become Jewish or not) was made 2000 years ago at the Jerusalem Council for reasons having nothing to do with food safety.

  • And other Jews don’t practice them. Just as some Christian sects practice dress codes that others don’t. There is no one size fits all version of fidelity to religious law. It’s all about interpretation.

    Moving on.

  • “It’s all about interpretation…” and yet you just dismissed the almost one quarter of American Jews who keep kosher as “fundamentalists of the most extreme kind.” Nice.

    Too bad someone wasn’t there to inform Jesus that it’s merely “all about interpretation” when He asked the Father to take the cup of suffering from Him if it were possible.

    At any rate, it doesn’t change the reason why Gentile Christians have never been expected to become kosher-observant Jews.

  • ISIS thanks you for your support. There is nothing more helpful to them more than useful fools equating Islam with their terror and sowing fear of Muslims in democratic country.

  • There is nothing more stupid than ignoring the strong evidence of a potential threat. The US remains exceptional and there are many ethnic and religious groups that have huge problems dealing with this kind of life.

  • Nice platitudes, and except for Bush II all well before 9/11 and sixteen years of the Long War. President Trump is better because he looks at the facts of 9/11 and Long War and acts to protect US lives and interests.

  • It is not a Religious Test, they can still run for office. It is a policy test (comment on) so the voters can hear the answer and make a better decision.

  • …based on your views of a given religious belief. AKA a religious test. As opposed to questions about what a given candidate has done or said.

    Somehow your version of the Constitution has the words “except Muslims” written in pencil in the margins.

  • Yes, there is something more stupid. Contributing to the actual threat, turning away what is useful against it, and acting in such a panic that you betray principles and effective action. Anti Muslim hate, especially given color of law, is exactly what terrorists want and it helps their recruiting and operations. They depend on frothing at the mouth panic mongers to create conditions which enable them.

    “there are many ethnic and religious groups that have huge problems dealing with this kind of life.”

    Considering you once cited to a white supremacist source, I am sure you have problems with other racism ethnic and religious groups as well. 🙂

  • The Complete Idiot’s Guide to U.S. President Donald Trump:

    (1) “Trump’s new CIA director Gina Haspel ran torture site in Thailand”, SOTT, March 13, 2018.

    (2) “Trump’s First Year Ends in Twice as Many Mass Shootings Than Obama’s!”, Global Research, February 21, 2018.

    (3) “Trump Bows Deeply to Globalists, Surrenders to Puppet Masters”, Global Research, May 23, 2017.

    (4) “War ‘Works’ – Trump Favorability Hits 50%, Highest In 2 Months”, ZeroHedge, April 17, 2017.

    (5) “Trump Hides Behind the Military”, Consortium News, March 4, 2017.

  • White Supremacy is what people state when they do not have the data to back up their positions. The data on terror deaths by Jihadist, Conservative, and Liberal came from New America and Pew.

    When you look at the data you generally find that Muslims with college education have low rates of terrorism, the same with women or those who wear Western attire. In terms of of approving immigrants you go for these populations. Around 47% of Muslims in the US are college educations, which is why their house hold incomes (avg) are higher than whites. My guess is that large databases, facial recognition, and better algorithms are about to reduce crime and terror a lot.

    The US is not build on group rights (Races, Sex, Ethnic groups) we are built around individual rights. Overtime “races” come and go, preserving them is not a state interest. My own background is fairly mixed. This approach to live is very different than the rest of the world.

  • You reallly should look the underlying data. Lets take a look at #2. The implication is that President Trump is responsible for a rise in mass shootings. But correlation is not causation.

    Mass shoting deaths are < .01% of all Murders, the numbers bounce around each year. But the trends have been up for the last 20 years. The trend line seems independent of any president. See: http://time.com/4965022/deadliest-mass-shooting-us-history/ There were 17,250 Murders in 2016, it was flat, but in 2015 and 2016 the murder rate and numbers went up (Under Obama) http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-u-s-murder-rate-is-up-but-still-far-below-its-1980-peak/ Apparently, Obama was responsible for an extra 2,000 deaths per year.

    It appears that the Murder rate went down 5% in 2017. https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/crime-2017-updated-analysis
    It appears that President Trump lowered the number of murders by some 800 people. This swamps the sixty or so extra mass murder victims.

    Besides the FL shoots were Obama's fault, under normal circumstances Cruz's many threats would have resulted in an arrest. He would not have been able to purchase an AR-15. Obama changed policy to "fight" the school to prison pipeline, which dropped the arrest rate some 60% in that county. In addition, while Sheriff Israel was giving training to Mosques in concealled carry (for protection), he left the schools wide open. The county officers did not enter the school until the shooting ended.

    Net it appears that Obama policies killed at least 4,000 more people than usual, ane caused one more school mass shooting. Trump reduced Obama's carnage by some 900 lives, which improving economic growth from 1.9% (1.5% in 2016) to 3% plus.

    The complete idiocy have been very successful, unlike Obama's liberal policies.

  • A Muslim can run for office, a Muslim can fully support the Koran, when asked about his support of the above passages an affirmative answer means he would not get elected. The same for a jew would kill other jews who attempted to convert (per the above passage). They would fail the policy test.

  • If I remember my theology the New Testament replaced Law with belief in Christ. This mean that Christians do not have to follow the Old Testament (e.g., dietary laws). They do have to obey Christ, who technically is the fufillment of the Law.

  • Keith Ellison and Andre Carson proves being a Muslim being unelectable.

    “A Muslim can run for office, a Muslim can fully support the Koran, when asked about his support of the above passages an affirmative answer means he would not get elected.”

    So who besides a reporter with an axe to grind would be asking such a question and expecting an answer? Certainly not a Senate panel confirming a nominee for a position. As it would be illegal for them to do so, (see that pesky old Constitution who you are showing no respect for).

  • “White Supremacy is what people state when they do not have the data to back up their positions.”

    Hundreds of incidents of white supremacists committing terrorist acts do not back up my position? Can you be less honest?

    Not at all. White Supremacy is the leading force for terrorism in the United States by an order of magnitude greater than Islamicism.

    “When you look at the data you generally find that Muslims with college education have low rates of terrorism”

    Data from where pray tell? People who want to sputter nonsense facts and stats should provide a source for them, lest they be accused of making it up. I have no reason to take your assertions at face value.

    “My guess is that large databases, facial recognition, and better algorithms are about to reduce crime and terror a lot.”

    You would be incorrect on both counts. Profiling is never an effective strategy against terrorism and promotes the kind of discrimination and bigotry which enables it. Terrorists simply would recruit people who do not follow the “known patterns”. Once a “profile” is well known, it becomes subverted.

    The most effective tool against Islamicist terrorism in the US is freedom loving American Muslims.
    https://warisboring.com/american-muslims-turn-in-lots-of-terrorists/
    “Muslim informants fingered more terror suspects than bulk data-collection did in the same period of time. ”

    “The US is not build on group rights ”

    Yet discrimination is always based on group classes and characteristic. Our individual rights and liberties are premised on laws which do not attack us for being in a given “suspect class”.

  • Assuming (wrongly) that as per Trump’s performance in (2) “correlation is not causation”, like you said, still, what about in (1), (3), (4) & (5)? – you didn’t say. Am I to assume The Complete Idiot’s Guide to U.S. President Donald Trump is at least 80% accurate? 4 out 5?

  • “and acts to protect US lives and interests”

    There is no evidence of him doing anything of that sort.

    In fact he was considered so dangerously ignorant and useless that South Korea and China “kiddie tabled” the US from negotiations with North Korea.

    He has attacked US economic interests with our allies to the point of being excluded to some extent by our own trade partners.

    He has enabled adversaries China and Russia to act with impunity against our interests.

  • “This mean that Christians do not have to follow the Old Testament (e.g., dietary laws).”

    But they invoke them anyway when they want to talk tough and attack others for not being allegedly pious. See Sandiwinsor’s usual posts.

  • My original comment wasn’t about Jewish dietary laws. It was about acknowledging that the Old Testament is considered Sacred Scripture by Christians.

  • The Constitution is no bar to asking policy questions that may or may not be motivated by religion. For example, Booker was recently asking Pompeo whether or not Gay sex was an abomination as the Bible (and Koran) state.

  • No. They are all wrong; it just takes time to demonstrate this with data. Pick one more I will zap it for you.

  • The Data I was refering to comes from the New America organization (A Liberal Think-Tank). Download the CSV files on Terror plots and get back to me. There are a limited number of Right-Wing terror attacks (White supremacists).
    https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/part-i-overview-terrorism-cases-2001-today/

    If two sets of people with the same background (apart from Race) are on average treated differently than there is a beef and the US has laws that make this differential treatment illegal. The laws are mainly organized to be color-blind. In the last few decades there has been a push to focus on getting the same outcomes, but this will not stand. The best example is the fact that full-time working women make around 78% of full-time working males. The difference is accounted for by education, years of exp, type of job, hours worked, and whether on not the women have children, etc.

    Profiling is very effective, probably 30% of the reduction in crime since 1980 was because the police followed the broken windows theory and went after all young males in a high crime area. Israel is big on profiling and currentlly has fewer terror deaths per capita and safer airlines than the US does. As terrorists change their behavior the profiles are updated.

  • You offer no data or sources. The US runs around an $800B Trade Deficit ($375B with China). We also pay 45% to 65% of the cost of defending our allies (Japan and Europe). This might have been useful with the Soviets, when the US was 44% of the Global economy. The Soviet Union died in 1991 (37 years ago), the other nations have closed the economic gap and we are around 17% of global GNP. The economc interests of our allies are often not the same as the US. We lost 66,000 factories. This is why Trump was elected.

    He is the first president since Nixon to state the Trade Deficit with China will end along with their thef of Intellectual property and taken actions to make this so. He has enforced the Red Lines against Syria/Russia, through Fracking he has lowered Russian Economic growth, he sold arms to the Ukraine, is deploying Patriot Missile defenses to Poland, and increased US armour deployments to NATO. Unlike the Democrats he is acting to protect US interests against Russia and China.

    You obviously do not know what you are talking bout.

  • I looked at your references and they are wrong. The Nazis had no program of forced conversion to Christianity. They were mainly on the Occult side of things. They did get some Church organizations to adopt Nazi racial ideology (what a difference the Rhine River makes). But this is not Christian. The message of Jesus was first for the Jews (a ethnic group), but under Paul it was extended to all peoples and adopted by them. From its start Christianity focused on souls, not race.

  • You didn’t read the references at all. Nazi collaborators, including the Croatian Catholic Church very much had a program of forced conversion of Serbs.

    Unfortunately for you, the modern day descendants of such ideology make it very clear they are Christian. Especially two of our more virulent posters who ascribe to such things. By all means have that argument with Roy Hobs and Strong119 when you see their postings on this site. I couldnt care less what excuses you have on this front.

  • You don’t read the news outside of Breitbart would an assume. Do not talk of an opponent lacking sources when you give none yourself. Trump is adding $1.5T to our national deficit with nothing to show for it. All on the backs of everyone who works for a living. The pullout from the,TPP has already hurt American agriculture. The phony not really tarrifs have done nothing other than demonstrate to the world how unstable and unthinking Trumps ideas are. Our economy has lost much of its industrial capacity by its own doing. Our economy is buoyed by a system of borrowing and spending, as well as manipulation of financial institutions rather than production. Nearly 40 years of conservative supply side economic thinking to blame for that,

    Trump is so far in Russia’s pocket that he even burned an allied intelligence asset just to show off to them. So far the only people willing to work for him have been the least competent and most corrupt. You are full of crap.

  • Right wing terror attacks are far far more prevalent here than Islamicist ones. Our laws may be written as colorblind but you have to be a lying sack of crap to pretend they ae applied in a color blind manner. Just because you say something done is illegal, doesn’t mean it does not exist or is enforced effectively. In some cases like Ferguson MO you have an entire law enforcement and judiciary system which was designed to shake down poor residents in a predatory manner.

    Profiling is illegal and no, it does not work. Especially for terrorism. Israel does not depend on profiling either. The are far smarter and less lazy about such things. it doesn’t work because people planning these things ae not morons. Where a profile exists, is is obvious and capable of being worked around. All you are doing is looking for excuses for law enforcement to act in a patently racist/bigoted manner, attack civil liberties for its own sake.

  • Typical dishonest response. Calling something by a different label doesn’t change what it is. Religious tests are illegal. Calling it a policy test does not change the fact to are asking about a persons given with, not the acts they have done or the policies they have stated in public. Why do you hate the constitution and everything it stands so much?

  • Great links, on racial profiling in Israel. I’ve saved these, and will have a read. P.S. Several years ago I crossed into Israel from Egypt at the Eilat border crossing, I remember the Israeli border security officers separating the people crossing into two groups, those who were obviously of White European heritage, (which included me) were put into one queue, and processed first, while those who were darker, and of Arabic ethnicity, were placed into another queue and processed last, and far slower. Racial profiling in the Zionist Apartheid state of Israel is real.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/russian-speakers-who-want-to-immigrate-could-need-dna-test/
    A number of people from the former Soviet Union wishing to immigrate to Israel could be subjected to DNA testing to prove their Jewishness, the Prime Minister’s Office said Sunday. The policy was reported in Maariv on Monday, one day after the Israeli paper revealed that a 19-year-old woman from the former Soviet Union was required to take the test to qualify for a Birthright Israel trip. https://www.timesofisrael.com/teen-told-she-cant-join-birthright-without-dna-test/

    Medical geneticist Harry Ostrer insists the ‘biological basis of Jewishness’ cannot be ignored. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664

    The article, “Not Jewish Enough to Marry a Cohen,” published by the Israeli Haaretz news website, discusses how a Jewish lady named Irina Plotnikov immigrated to Israel from the former Soviet Union (FSU) in 1992, but was ruled ineligible to marry a Cohen by a rabbinic court in Jerusalem because her father is not Jewish. http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/not-jewish-enough-to-marry-a-cohen-1.150715

  • Hmmm, Racial Profiling reflects the different norms, believes, and behaviors of the people(s) involved. Israel does Ethnic/Racial profling to ID those who have a higher probability of killing Israeli citizens. I expect this profiling will increase both on a State and an Individual basis; lots of Facial recognition and large integrated databases. There does not appear to be a good biological basis for races; race just reflects who mated with who in what areas. However, there are associated cultural norms that can be very strong (think Catholic vs. Protestant Irish).

    The results of WWI and WWII were to finalize the ethnic separation of different nations (common heritage, language, etc.) into Nation-States and the destruction of the multi-ethnic empires. The US is more of a idea so these same peoples in an American context just became US citiizens (with lots of intermarriage, but around 30% of the European immigrants to the US returned to Europe)

    Although, it is interesting note that the Jews are genetically closest to the Palestinians, Bedouins, and the Druze (and some Southern Europeans). They were a common population, but diverged 2000-2500 years ago… https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/

  • Except the profiling never worked.
    That last attack there wasn’t even done by Arabs. But but the Japan Red Army.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lod_Airport_massacre

    Even Israeli media pilloried Trump for suggesting Israel style profiling.

    It doesn’t elsewhere either. 8 years of profiling Muslims in NYC (illegally) produced nothing of value. Informants in the community produced actual leads.

    Its funny how many other factors you have to mention in order to pretend it was working. Such as the wall. But also there is the fact that Palestinian terrorists lost funding after the Hamas/Fatah split in 2003. Iran and Saudi Arabia moved on to fighting each other more openly through their proxies.

    Your link does not support your conclusion.

    Even the Israelis thought Trump got it wrong and considered him a fool for the comments he made on the subject.
    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-b-g-security-expert-profiling-bad-idea-1.5440511

  • Haaretz behind a pay wall, could not see this article. My only point was that it appears profiling works well in Israel, just because they managed to substantially reduce terror deaths.

  • No it isn’t. They had a big pop up ad you can close put of. Try again.

    Your point is garbage. A fiction to make useless and pointless racism public policy. An alleged correlation pretending to be causation. One undermined by all the other factors mentioned in passing.

    Since you didn’t read the article you missed where the former Israeli security chief lambasted Trumps suggestion of wholesale racial/ethnic profiling as both missing the point and micharacterizing what is actually done there. Plus 1972? You realize metal detectors weren’t even standard in international airports back then? Most developed nations didn’t have anti terrorist units either back bygone. Your premise is so full of holes it could only come from ignorant or dishonest assertions.

    It couldn’t work at all in the US because obviously fools who want to implement it can’t even understand what they are try to copy.

    As I said before, it was tried in NYC and was miserable failure.

    “My guess is these methods”

    Your guess is wrong. When implemented such tactics devolve I to streaming people based on what they look like and wasting resources attacking people for shts and giggles. As every profiling effort has done since.

    Frankly, given your reference in a prior discussion to a white supremacist site, your blanket denial of the well established threat of such groups and your desire to make bigotry official policy, it becomes clear that actual law enforcement is not as important to you as going after people of color.

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