Opinion

How can Christians support Donald Trump?

President Trump, joined by Karen Pence, from left, Vice President Mike Pence and first lady Melania Trump, speaks during the Congressional Ball in the grand foyer of the White House on Dec. 15, 2018. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)

(RNS) — As a student of American evangelicalism, I am frequently asked how Christians can support Donald Trump. I stop myself from going into lecture mode. Most people want a sound bite, not a disquisition.

So here’s the short answer: Ever since 1980, when Ronald Reagan told a Dallas gathering of 15,000 evangelicals, “you can’t endorse me … but I want you to know that I endorse you,” white evangelicals have voted for Republicans, who mostly promise to enact their agenda.

Mostly they’ve been disappointed. In November 2016, when Trump won election to the White House, abortion was still legal, gay couples had the right to marry, government regulations inhibited the free market and the U.S. embassy to Israel remained in Tel Aviv.

Trump promised to change all that.

Despite his personal shortcomings, evangelicals believed him. He selected a solid Christian as his running mate, and his track record as a businessman proved he got things done.

God uses imperfect messengers, evangelicals reasoned, and if King David — an adulterer who arranged to have his partner’s husband killed — could still accomplish great good, why not the 45th president?

So it was a realpolitik calculation that drove so many white evangelicals to the Trump-Pence ticket. It was also stoked by economic uncertainty, cultural anxiety and a sense of social marginalization that festered through the Obama years. They wanted an affirmation of their status, and Trump offered one.

But here is another answer to the question of why evangelicals support Trump: They don’t, or at least not all of them.

While conservative white evangelicals are a significant voting bloc and, as such, command cultural cachet, they’re not monolithic. Millions of evangelicals, notably those who aren’t white, didn’t support Trump.

The evangelical world is more complex than news coverage of Jerry Falwell Jr. and Franklin Graham would suggest. A handful of white conservative leaders, even if they don’t all agree, isn’t representative of American evangelicalism’s breadth.

That’s why a group of scholars, including evangelicals, former evangelicals and non-evangelicals who are black, white and brown, met regularly this fall to discuss and develop a typology that would describe the complexity of American evangelicalism. Those discussions eventually led my colleagues and me at the Center for Religion and Civic Culture at the University of Southern California to create a short guide on the varieties of American evangelicalism.

Illustrations classify five types of American evangelicalism. Image courtesy of USC

Our goal was to educate reporters for the 2018 midterm election — where white evangelicals again voted overwhelmingly Republican — and beyond.

We hope the guide will deepen Americans’ understanding of religious difference as well as religion and politics. We also hope the guide is a conversation starter: Who’s missing and how can we improve the schema?

The guide breaks evangelicals into five groups: Trump-vangelicals, Neo-Fundamentalist Evangelicals, iVangelicals, Kingdom Christians and Peace and Justice Evangelicals.

We used three sorting criteria.

First, each group shares a basic agreement on evangelical theology. Second, they each understand themselves as existing within the larger tradition of American evangelicalism, whether or not they refer to themselves, their churches and other organizations as “evangelical.”

Third, their theology motivates how they act in the world, including social and political activities, and their attitudes toward people who do not share their faith.

Trump-vangelicals are the most visible inheritors of the religious right’s mission to make America a Christian nation. The majority of this group is white, but some Latinos, Asians and African-Americans also belong. Many are not just concerned with electoral politics but also see their work as preparation for the Second Coming. Members stay connected through educational and media networks, including Fox News, and look to men like James Dobson, John Hagee and Franklin Graham for leadership.

President Trump greets people as he arrives to speak during a dinner for evangelical leaders in the State Dining Room of the White House on Aug. 27, 2018, in Washington, D.C. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

Neo-Fundamentalist Evangelicals share the same worldview as Trump-vangelicals but cite moral and theological reasons for not supporting the president. However, they appreciate Trump’s making good on their agenda, and many voted for him, some holding their noses.

Unlike the Trump-vangelicals, neo-fundamentalists strive to be politically pure, motivated only by Christianity’s teachings. Notables include Russell Moore of the Southern Baptist Convention and Tony Evans of the Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship in Dallas.

iVangelicals, the largest division of American evangelicals, belong to megachurches. Mostly white, they also include Latinos, Asians and African-Americans. Though socially conservative, they are more concerned with church life than politics. Social change, they say, comes from individual conversion: people need to be saved before political structures change. Joel Osteen of Lakewood Church in Houston represents this group, as do T.D. Jakes of the Potter’s House Church of Dallas and the leadership of Hillsong.

Kingdom Christians are the most racially and ethnically diverse of the groups. Churches tend to be urban and hyper-local, and members are active in their communities, working for grassroots changes that mitigate human suffering. Because of their local orientation, few leaders are nationally known.

Peace and Justice Evangelicals make up a small but growing movement of older leaders, mostly white men, and young adherents who are racially and ethnically diverse. Though many are pro-life, they part company with other evangelicals by focusing on issues such as racial justice, gender equality, immigration reform and “creation care” — what the rest of America calls environmentalism.

Linked through media, nonprofits and some evangelical colleges and seminaries, they are represented by an old guard that includes Tony Campolo and Jim Wallis and a new guard of Alexia Salvatierra of Fuller Seminary, David Gushee at Mercer University, Shane Claiborne and other younger leaders.

The next time you start to ask — or answer — why evangelicals support Trump, sound smart by asking first: which evangelicals? The question is part of our ongoing effort to show how and why religion and politics are more complex and much more interesting than headlines allow.

(Diane Winston holds the Knight Chair in Media and Religion at the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California. The views expressed in this commentary do not necessarily represent those of Religion News Service.)

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Diane Winston

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  • How can anyone support Trump or the erroneous history, theology and dogma of Christianity? One begets the other!!!

  • It’s very convenient to suddenly broaden the definition of evangelicalism to include various subsets in order to create distance between “polite evangelicals” and the at times not-so-polite version that has been dominant in the public sphere for the better part of four decades. For instance, I’ve never heard of “peace and justice evangelicals” until I read this article. Where have they been all these years? Sounds to me like some people who have ridden this ship of cozy connection between evangelical Christianity and the Republican party for a long, long time have suddenly decided they don’t like the stench of moral decay that oozes from all around them. Not that their late-in-the-game efforts to offer a counter-narrative will do much good – white evangelicals have latched themselves onto Trump and they will never let go.

    But now that I think on it, it was a whole lot of black evangelical women in Alabama who drove the odious Roy Moore from power, thanks be to God, so maybe there’s some hope out there for Evangelicalism after all. I place my hope in black evangelical women. The others, not so much.

  • I have no problem with a Christian (or anybody else, for that matter) supporting Donald Trump for policy reasons. I mostly disagree with them, but I respect their choice.

    What I can’t stand is the hypocrisy of religious voters who insist that Trump is a devout Christian despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary. Apparently, for them one isn’t known by one’s fruits anymore but by one’s party affiliation.

    If you think Trump is leading the country in the right direction, fine. But at least have the honesty to admit that the guy’s behavior is often inconsistent with basic Christian charity.

  • Vlad: hey Orange1, that Mueller he closing in on you fast. Maybe you tell too many fake truths but don’t worry my friend. My Internet Research minions I mean team will PUMP YOU UP again on many social medias like for election yes.

    Donald TRump: Pootie Baby my rump is getting too hot from press and FBI roasting. They got my ass close to impeachment. Can I come to Russia to hide? I build new tower with penthouse for you and you can ride me with your bare chest again while we watch uh “streaming” activities again.

    Vlad: no problem DonnieBoy. No collusion worry when we are on team Russiamerica together. You can get to have nice hut in Siberia next to Eddie Snowden and big Soviet babushkas to keep you warm and wet and your small hands busy.

  • Separation of church and state. Church has one function. State another. Didn’t Jesus say his kingdom was not of this world? I think many religious news writers confuse Christianity wiht Islam. Islam is the one intent on kingdom building in this world and theocracy.

  • Evangelical, non-evangelical, white, black, red or anything else…..it doesn’t matter – Christ – whatever His reasons, put Trump in power.
    Daniel 2:21 – He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

  • The reasons real evangelicals should not be supporting Republicans is that they have been lying to you on major subjects since 1980. High-end tax cuts DO NOT “create” living wage jobs. The free market DOES NOT provide affordable health insurance for young families. Collective bargaining and progressive income taxation ARE NOT either evil or unnecessary, but rather are the only reasons why America ever had a middle class. Environmentalism IS increasingly important and necessary. Regulations on business ARE important and they amount to YOU recognizing the natural tendency of pure capitalism to take advantage of people and YOUR MEANS of loving your neighbors by protecting them from sharks and sharking. Public education is NOT something bad. In fact, the public schools are the best thing happening in the lives of millions of children. Big government is NOT a bad thing, NOR is there any such thing as “small government” in the 21st century.

    All this is before the name of Donald Trump is even mentioned. For church people to be supporting a man now on record with over 6,000 public deceptions or lies since taking office only highlights one thing. The churches they attend are worthless, in fact, worse than worthless. Seriously, supporting a womanizer, a man with a lifetime of questionable business practices, and a serial fibber on all subjects is serious error. Parading him around in front of children as some sort of national hero and excusing his denial of the whole “love your neighbor” theme with comparisons to King David from the Bible is the worst fraud on real Christianity I have ever seen in my life. David’s escapades and the result of his beliefs are what Christians got a savior to fix and save them from, for goodness sakes. Otherwise they would/should all remain in Judaism.

    If the churches produce this effect and cannot do better, they ought to close up. At a minimum, they need to admit they are willing co-conspirators in massive national fraud against their own members and everyone else they hoped to “evangelize”. If they won’t admit, the rest of us can help with counter-argument and disclosure/exposure.

  • Hey Diane, let me clarify it for you without the research, classifying and hand wringing:

    HE WASN’T HILLARY CLINTON!!!!

    It had nothing to do with faith!!!

    It had to do with:
    Benghazi
    Illegal email server
    Hillarycare
    Cattle futures
    Vince Foster
    Uranium One
    Clinton Foundation
    Marc Rich
    Pantsuits
    Coughing Fits and her overall health.

  • People put Trump in power.

    Your deity, who can’t be bothered to call 911 when a preacher or priest is raping a child, does not intervene in human affairs. Not even to find you a parking place. It is so apathetic, in fact, that it’s almost like it doesn’t exist.

    You can’t blame your imaginary friend for Trump.

  • What a tired litany of worn-out, dried-up, leftover Hillary-hatred tropes. Fox News needs some new material. Then again, since their viewing base is nothing but old white people, they probably enjoy the repetition. Old, failing minds usually do.

  • The author professes to address the question of how Christians can support Trump, then spends the whole article discussing no one but Evangelicals.

    Earth to author: Evangelicals aren’t the only Christians.

  • I hate to ever say anything that might resemble defending Trump, but you state that Trump promised to change, “the right for gay couples to marry,” and I need to ask if you can cite any evidence for that? I followed the campaign closely and while Trump said a lot of outrageous things, my impression was he kept his distance from suggesting that Obergefell might be overturned. Since the man has no moral anchor it wouldn’t surprise me if he would say such a thing to evangelical voters, but accuracy matters.

    A second point: the final group of “Peace and Justice Evangelicals” may indeed exist, but the prominent members you cite really stretch the definition of “evangelical”. Gushee wrote a whole book about “leaving Evangelicalism” and I wonder if Wallis and Claiborne still subscribe to any doctrine that resembles evangelical theology?

  • This is the same thing I said when you and I first crossed paths six months or so ago.
    It hasn’t changed.
    I don’t understand why it is so hard for you Hillary lovers to understand – people don’t like her politics and don’t like her personally.
    Simple mutual exclusivity.

  • Trump’s victory was clearly Divine Intervention. How else does a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before possibly defeat Queen Chosen One, who had the Mediots, the sitting Potus, and the entire entertainment industry at her beck and call?

  • Thanks, it is always funny when a proud puppet of the MSM has the audacity to accuse other people of being manipulated by a news outlet.

  • “He wasn’t Hillary Clinton”

    Also he wasn’t THAT BLACK PRESIDENT and he promised to Make America White Again.

  • It’s clear the “media” did not want Trump. That’s why they featured his campaign every day all day on CNN and MSNBC and Fox, right?

    It was a simple: he appealed to the weaknesses of the white poor and those uneducated middle class turds looking to blame others for their failures. This also produced high ratings alongside Trump’s WWE persona. It’s straight from idiocracy.

    Maybe it worked on you?

  • How many “religious” voters do you think insist that Trump is a devout Christian?

    Except for articles like this one, I rarely encounter that proposition, and have never once in day-to-day life encountered such a voter.

    Since we don’t elect Preachers-in-Chief (Jimmy Carter came close, and that was an awakening), why should any voter assess his behavior by this or that “Christian” measure?

  • Can you actually cite when and where “he promised to Make America White Again”?

    You haven’t done so the last half dozen times you were asked.

  • I believe that rather than “white poor and those uneducated middle class turds”, you ought to use Queen Hillary’s “deplorables”.

    Otherwise you’ll come off sounding like one of those effete privileged white upper class turds who believe themselves to be better than almost everyone, smarter than almost everyone, while eating bean sprouts and wearing sandals.

  • The fact that the world does not meet your standards does not speak to the existence of, nature of, or anything else of a deity.

  • Agree with your last point. Read a post today by James McGrath arguing that SBC’s theology never evolved to growing back the pieces missed when justifying slavery theologically. So Paul replaces Jesus for example – maybe a crude synopsis but hopefully you get my drift. I do remember going back though discovering at least one curricula where the Gospels were covered as a single course

  • It’s not the number. It’s the visibility. Falwell. Robertson. Trump’s religious advisers. Evangelical leadership.

    Why should any voter assess Trump by his Christianity? Beats me. So why do these religious leaders make such a big deal out of it? They and Trump are the ones who made his purported religiosity an issue.

  • For those unfamiliar with her, Diane Winston is not really “a student of American evangelicalism” but an opponent of American evangelicalism.

    She is a professor of Media and Religion at the Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism at the University of Southern California.

    Formerly the Director of the late Religion Dispatches while it was sponsored by the Anneberg School

    http://religiondispatches.org/author/Diane-Winston/

    under her tenure RD became so anti-Christian and anti-Catholic that the School severed its relationship with it.

    Like RNS’ Mark Silk, with whom she shares a prior career as a “journalist” in a southern newspaper, she blames American evangelicals for Trump’s election:

    http://religiondispatches.org/under-god-its-a-great-thing-trump-delivers-for-his-christian-base/

    Unlike enlightened non-Christian intellectuals like herself, who never vote for Republicans, she believes white evangelicals (whatever they are) have voted for Republicans.

    Ho hum.

  • All the visibility appears to be at venues such as RNS, America, Commonweal, National Catholic Reporter, and so on.

    Among the “religious” voters I know the moral evaluation was of the Democratic Party’s pro-abortion, pro-same sex marriage, anti-religious platform and performance, and they held their noses to vote against that.

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DDxH7V8MlK8/W5FqhhI2teI/AAAAAAAAVqM/94RTZqiBDNcQlBxXwiWAb4EUU9Cl17wGACEwYBhgL/s1600/Flight%2BRisk%2B7.jpg

    The references to “Falwell. Robertson. Trump’s religious advisers. Evangelical leadership” are really quite silly.

  • OH YEAH, Diane Winston? “The next time [we] start to ask — or answer — why evangelicals support Trump, sound smart by asking first: which evangelicals?” How come, then, you of all people didn’t bother to “sound smart [at all yourself] by asking first: which evangelicals?” – when, on November 9, 2016 and February 2, 2017, “pundits [were] wonder[ing] how his campaign could rally evangelical support”?! Remember what your answer was? It wasn’t answering the question with a question, “Which evangelicals?” Instead, your answer was:

    “Trump is the quintessence of a certain evangelical vision. Trump is a family man. … Trump is an economic success. … Trump is a patriot. … Trump is a Christian. … Trump was elected for many reasons and by many people. But a large part of his success came from the support of white evangelicals.”

    You’re not to be taken seriously, then, ARE YOU?

    “Sound smart”, my foot!

    Source: Diane Winston, “Might, Right, and White Privilege: It’s Morning in America: The Sequel”, Religion Dispatches, November 9, 2016. And “‘Under God … It’s a Great Thing’: Trump Delivers for His Christian Base”, Religion Dispatches, February 2, 2017.

  • It’s you, New Purina, that give a whole meaning to the word, “idiocracy”. Voila, The Gospel According to New Purina:

    “I think of the One God as Universal … I have concluded that there is One God, as many ancient cultures have concluded. … The God spoken of in the Qur’an is the God of the Hebrew Bible … There is no objective truth in [Christian] scriptures … writings from the 1st century … [but only] backwards doctrine [such as the] burning in an eternal furnace … human sacrifice of Jesus for sins … [Truth is] Israel – not Christ – is called God’s firstborn”.

  • I agree that more faith-based voters voted “against” Clinton than “for” Trump. So why not admit that? Why did Jerry Falwell, Jr. and Pat Robertson contort themselves into pretzels to find a way to call Trump a good Christian during the campaign? Why has no major evangelical leader to this date condemned his unkind, uncharitable and decidedly unchristian conduct?

    Yes, it matters. It makes religious leaders look like insincere opportunists and cheapens public discourse. It damages the body politic and it damages religious credibility. It matters a great deal.

    Moving on.

  • 2 years now he’s the U.S. president and 2 years “[you’re still] trying to figure out [how]”. Well, like the author said, “[You don’t] sound smart”.

  • Without that “evangelical” brand, they’ll have no marketing angle or niche, and their preconditions of existence are GONE. The market rate for a Judas then was “thirty pieces of silver”; now it’s priceless.

    (I am an X-Sojourner Subscriber, fyi.)

  • That must be it. I just understand his appeal to professed conservatives or even centrists. MAybe I’m in the minority.

  • Watch out. This Meh-eh-eh Guy is about ready to block you.

    Just love that line, “That was a lot of keystrokes to say nothing.”

  • And where were Neil deGrasse Tyson, David Silverman, Lawrence Krauss & Al Franken “when a preacher or priest is raping a child”?! Oh that’s right, they were inadvertently mobilizing the #MeToo movement among Female Ashiests! How convenient, huh, maLARKey?!

  • Oh yes, “that black president” who openly lied to America’s black Christians (and all the other colors and religions too!) on national TV, in order to beat John McCain.

  • Yep, them pesky Russians personally stood beside every ballot box in America, and magically hypnotized everybody in a majority of electoral-college states as they cast their vote. You nailed it.

    Po’ widdle innocent Queen Hillary and her dedicated stable of Libbie Shills. Cue da violins, please!!

  • Your scenario makes just as much sense as the one coming from this shill Diane Winston.

    In fact, your words are pure genius, compared to hers. Congrats.

  • The Russians intentionally and systematically used every single social media platform to manipulate attitudes and opinions.

    Propaganda works.

    They also used the NRA to funnel money into the election.

  • Your focus on Jerry Falwell, Jr. and Pat Robertson, who in the large scheme of evangelical Christianity are small peanuts, belies the source of both your information and your ire.

    “Why has no major evangelical leader to this date condemned his unkind, uncharitable and decidedly unchristian conduct?”

    Probably for the same reason no major evangelical leader condemned either John F. Kennedy, Jr., or Bill Clinton for their profligate use of the sexual faculty, including in both cases dipping their pens in the company inkwell.

    They are not there to save the President.

    “It makes religious leaders look like insincere opportunists and cheapens public discourse.”

    Only if you read the National Catholic Reporter, Commonweal, America, The Atlantic, and so on and see things from their perspective.

    Most Americans do not.

  • The evidence they used the NRA to “funnel money into the election” appears to be zip.

    They did ATTEMPT to infiltrate one component of the NRA – unsuccessfully.

    And the Russians would point out the Americans intentionally and systematically used every single social media platform to manipulate attitudes and opinions in the Ukraine.

    Being super powers involves all sorts of things.

  • “My standards?”

    Do you actually consider intervening when a child is being raped an inappropriately high standard?

    I consider that pretty basic.

    According to christian theology, your deity is all powerful and all knowing. It sees everything. It is right there watching every time a child is raped.

    According to the evidence, this all powerful deity did zippo bits as children were raped, even when they were raped in churches.

    It isn’t the world that doesn’t meet my standards. It is your deity that meets no standards whatsoever.

  • “My standards?”

    Yes, YOUR standards.

    “Do you actually consider intervening when a child is being raped an inappropriately high standard?”

    In this creation, evil is a reality. Creation is damaged – by Man, not the deity.

    That arises from Free Will.

    Yes, the deity could have created a snow globe and put a creation of perfection sans Free Will in it. From time to time the deity could shake it.

    Would you like to live in it?

    “According to christian theology, your deity is all powerful and all knowing. It sees everything. It is right there watching every time a child is raped.”

    And will set things right in the long haul, aka eternity.

    The rapist will be punished, the child healed and comforted, and justice will be achieved.

    All you’re describing is the limits of your vision, not the limits of the deity.

    In fact in keeping with the season, you seem to be suggesting you’d be happier with Santa Claus than God.

  • Sounds like you White liberal elitist control freaks are just butt hurt about the fact that Patriotic Americans are finally tearing down your globalist power structure.

  • This is an interesting article. I like that the author gave examples of preachers in each subset of evangelicalism. One thing jumps out at me – evangelicals are drawn to conmen/conwomen. I remember growing up in the 80s and there was Swaggart and Baker and Robertson and Falwell. The folks never learned their lesson – they are still being fleeced by Falwells and Swaggart and Baker! But now they love Osteen and Jakes and Graham. Trump has few talents but being a con man is one of the them. Bankrupting companies is another.

  • So you support a grifter, serial adulterer, compulsive liar and complete incompetent. Citing garbage, debunked stories and rumors to rationalize your poor current choice.

    30 years of investigating the Clintons have yielded nothing.
    2 years of investigating Trump has yielded 11 convictions of his staff and associates.

    Yet you still cling to your canned nonsense, pretending like its still November 2016.

  • Yup, you have been unable to address a thing Trump has done since taking office despite your overwhelming support. You are trying to rationalize poor personal choices there, primarily by deflection and avoidance. Too spineless to address what the man has done in his position.

  • Too bad your fellow Conservative Christians have no regard for the separation of church and state, nor as it appears free exercise of religion. People who respect and support them both do not worry about any given faith’s tendency towards theocracy. The system is designed to prevent it.

    “Islam is the one intent on kingdom building in this world and theocracy”

    So they have a lot in common with Christian supporters of Trump. 🙂

    So you are now a scholar of various other faiths?

  • 11 convictions so far and several federal and state prosecutors building up a case against Trump make this more and more likely.

  • Tax cut
    2 Supreme Court justices
    Keystone pipeline
    Reduced environmental regulation
    Out of Paris extortion deal
    Addressing illegal immigration

    I’ll take that any day.

  • Yup – also the reason why we have shitty public schools, no manufacturing base and government malaise.

  • No. We don’t all have crappy public schools, it is a function of per capita funding. Privatization efforts for education have been a corrupt boondoggle designed to warehouse poor kids.

    No manufacturing base thanks to globalization and outsourcing. A rising standard of living in many countries means manufacturing has been dispersed more globally. Conservatives have been trying to lower standards of living and wages to match developing nations in a race to the bottom. Any claims of concern for those who work for a living is laughable.

    Government malaise isn’t even a thing. But plenty of blame for its inability to act in a way to serve our nation can be placed on Republicans more concerned with partisan jockeying than their duty to the public.

  • Hmmmm…. the kids in Chicago PS’s lead the nation in……… nothing.
    Unionized labor leads to inflated labor costs for sub-par work and low quality products. People don’t buy, and company’s shut down. But don’t worry, the caravan from Central America will eliminate those union jobs.
    No malaise in government huh? You truly are Winston. Drones pushing paper adding no value to society.
    Sad.

  • 30 years of investigation of her had yielded what results? Nothing

    2 years of investigating Trump and we have several convictions and talk as to how to indict a sitting president. Somehow I would never expect that kind of result from HRC. Especially given her history of being targeted by Republicans for nonsense allegations.

    Says a lot about how bad your judgment is and how quickly you like to spread untrue and debunked nonsense.

  • “I’ll take that any day.”

    Because you are a m0r0n.

    Tax plundering of the working and middle class to give away to the uppermost wealthy $1.5T deficit created with nothing to show for it

    2 Supreme Justices who have no business on the Court at all. One because Republicans treasonously refused to do their job. The other on the bench because evidently they also like alcoholic sexual predators

    Destroying the quality of life for people to further enrich the wealthy is not something to be proud of.

    Trump hires illegal alien labor personally.
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/6/donald-trump-companies-ignoring-e-verify-hiring-il/

    http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/politics/trump-bedminster-club-undocumented-workers/index.html

    He only uses immigration as a pretext for white supremacist policies. Violating laws, due process and wasting billions just to harass people of color (while ignoring human trafficking and exploitation of illegal labor)

    You have noted nothing any sane person would be proud of. But Russian trollbots, definitely.

  • Interesting that you pick a city in a state with a Republican governor and one awash with illegal guns thanks to NRA efforts.

    “Unionized labor leads to inflated labor costs for sub-par work and low quality products.”

    As opposed to not paying people living wages for sub-par work and low quality products. Forcing many full time workers to live on public assistance. Corporations essentially plundering the public resources to avoid paying enough for people. Again, you want a race to the bottom and the destruction of quality of life for those who work for a living.

    Refugees and asylum seekers get permanent residence when granted. Its not immigration which kills union jobs, its conservative politicians.

    Please define malaise? Given who has been in charge for 2 years, the buck stops there for any complaints about how government is operating.

  • This article makes some of the foremost points that evangelicals such as those in the Southern Baptist Cult are not Christian. It’s way past time we take back the name Christian from those who falsely claim to believe in Christ, but reject his teachings for the racist and other anti-Christian positions of the far right. I prefer the name/tag of “Follower of Jesus” for now until we can take control of our historical name and teachings.

  • Illinois governor is about as much of a republican as John McCain.
    But I’m glad you brought Illinois up; since that is the result of your preferred ideology.
    Out of control pension debt for unionized state employees;
    15% state income tax;
    Outflow of citizens to other states;
    Dysfunctional state government…
    Oh; and it has chicagostan…

  • You either have a credible world view, or you don’t. If you cannot explain and defend your credible world view, you do not have one.

  • Excuses for a poor overused example. Right to work states have some of the lowest quality of living in the nation. Filling out the bottom 3rd in all metrics, including poverty and inflow of federal tax funding for public assistance.

    Evidently not paying living wages mean more poor people and worse conditions for everyone. Go figure.

  • I think there was an editing error here. The middle two sentences in the ivangelicals belong with the neo-fundamentalists. That is more characteristic of them than of Joel Osteen and T. D. Jakes.

  • A simplistic talking point. Manufacturing productivity in the US has increased significantly despite decline in jobs in the sector. Automation, higher skilled workers are key factors. Competing in a global market. Decline in unionization has led to increased rates of income inequality.

  • You do understand that I am repeatedly inviting you to excuse your own rude behavior with something of substance, right?

  • Income inequality? Please define.
    Income is normally placed on the value of ones worth/work.
    Unionization artificially inflates this value and increases the price of a product or service.
    Unreasonable demands by a union in increased wages or benefits may make a company less competitive and/or look for cheaper pools of labor.
    Stick to basic micro and macro economics; and leave your social engineering aside – you will see the light.

  • Do you recall that you made an initial reply to my original comment, not the other way around? I tend to reply to those who reply to me. When you stop lobbing in aggressions and insults, I would be happy to leave you alone for the rest of your life.

  • The funny thing is that democrats traded the union vote for the illegal vote; crushing the middle class in the process.
    As more cheap labor comes from the southern border expect the middle class to shrink even more.

  • Really? That would be great news here. If you blocked me, you can’t see me or reply to me. I’d like that.

  • There is no illegal vote. You have lied about that one before.

    Trump is destroying the middle class by placing all tax burdens in them so the wealthy can avoid responsibility fir maintaining the system they benefit from. By attacking immigration especially legal immigration and asylum/refugee applicants, he attacks foreign investment in the country and small business growth. He supports fleecing the middl class and undermining the source of their wealth.

    If you supported organized labor, there would be Americans working in living wages for menial labor. Nobody could be hiring illegal aliens. As of now Americans would rather be unemployed and in public assistance than do the work illegal aliens perform.

    Clearly you want the cheap exploited labor rather than Americans with living wages.

    Illegal aliens are not affecting middle class white collar jobs. You are a liar. Wages have been stagnated for the middle class since the late 70’s thanks to conservative supply side voodoo economic policies. Coupled with the attack on organized labor, reducing the likelihood of a blue collar middle class.

    Then we also have bank and finance deregulation wiping out value for property and securities. Middle class wealth.

    You support destruction of the middle class. I do not. There is not a single honest statement to he made for your position

  • “Income is normally placed on the value of ones worth/work”

    You means like those in professional sports making millions a year for playing with balls.

  • And all those corporate board members who vote themselves salary increases while cutting wages across the board. Plus there is the company stock manipulation,

    Added to that the “gig economy” which depends entirely on lack of regulation and exploitation as a way to provide services.

  • What? When did Mike Pence become a “solid Christian?”

    I think of him having a “Handmaid’s Tale” religion.

  • Those things can be better explained by taking a look at wealth disparity. Republicans keep favoring the uber-rich and the rest end up poorer.

  • Those problems can be better explained by taking a look at wealth disparity. Republicans keep favoring the uber-rich and the rest end up poorer.

  • It’s not a product of money. If it is, it’s at the local level. FYI – the Uber-liberal Rahm Emmanuel of Clinton and Obama fame is the mayor. Plus, democrats have run Chicago and Illinois for at least 50+ years. No chance blaming republicans.

  • What does that mean exactly?
    The major cities in the United States have democrat mayors; and have for 50+ years.
    Democrat politicians and their socialist agendas are the new slave owners of minority’s in big city America.

  • Unfortunately yup.
    They are revenue producers.
    Those that generate revenue make the big bucks. Not “fair”…. but that’s life.

  • Russian interference in our elections and internal affairs – just like our interference in their’s and many other countries – has been going on for ages.

    And now, when your candidate lost, you’re all of a sudden upset about it?

    Risible.

  • Tearing down our globalist power structure! Wow, was that harder to build than a wall? By the way, Trump is an elitist control freak. He also had a bone spur to keep him out of Vietnam. Hurrah for the Patriotic Americans.

  • Easy answer. Christians who support Trump don’t really care too much about the teachings of their own faith beyond what can be used to attack others and boost their ego. Lying for the Lord comes naturally for many of them. So lying for the right wing is not so much of a stretch.

    Bigots, the foolish, hypocrites and in some cases just compulsive liars seem to gather around him.

  • Actually it is. NRA lobbying has helped flood the streets with illegal guns. Constant diversion of State tax funds towards rural areas have starved infrastructure.

    Counterpoint is New York City and State. Both have been run by Democrats at the state and local level for a while and is at an all time low for crime and has a expanding economy. No explanation for that.

    There are about a dozen cities with Republican leadership with far worse economies and crime rates. But its not like you would ever take notice of their handiwork.

  • And it appears we still don’t.

    Unless you’re one of those people who don’t believe in “Innocent until proven guilty” – like the ones who condemned Kavanaugh.

  • Innocent until proven guilty is the criteria in a court of law.

    We are not in court. We are voters who are expected to acquire and analyze information the best we can. And the information known to date indicates collusion between Trump and Russia.

  • Interesting and cogent, if generalized, discussion of the evangelical support for Trump. As a fellow “student of American evangelicalism” one thing I’ve found is often overlooked is how progressive beliefs, including environmentalism and ecology, are becoming institutionalized at evangelical universities and colleges throughout the country. This drumbeat started long before the evangelical millennial and youth exodus from the fold, and begs more study, as these institutions of higher learning are educating the next generation/s of evangelicals (or whatever they may call themselves). The same thing is happening at the state and local levels; progressive evangelicals have for decades now been working with scientists and other secular groups as well as other religions in embracing an environmental ethic. Although the current political atmosphere isn’t supportive of this activity, it’s not something that is going to go away, and may be part of the redefining of American evangelicalism as we know it.

  • “Easy answer.”

    Too easy.

    It’s intellectually lazy to charge people with evil motives because their political opinions conflict with your own. Of course, on the plus side (i.e., the “lazy” side), it’s a very “efficient” way of conducting an argument. It saves you the trouble of having to grapple with your opponents’ actual viewpoint, or of understanding the narrative they’re working from, or (most of all) of formulating a coherent response to their political positions. When the crux of your argument is a few emotionally charged words (“bigots” “hypocrites,” “foolish,” “compulsive liars”), all that hard mental work can be dispensed with.

    There’s no wonder you find it so appealing it’s become your default response.

  • That is a rather ridiculous elaboration on the “Playing the race card” complaint. You appear annoyed that I am calling out bigotry, hypocrisy and venal behavior but not refuting any of the assertions. Annoyed at my tone but doing your best to show me why I am justified in employing it.

    Yes, they conflict with my own because I am a big opponent of bigotry, hypocrisy and venal behavior. As they should for anyone with a modicum of decency, morals and ethics.

    I understand your viewpoint and your narratives (which are largely canned dishonest nonsense being given to you). I just have no respect for them and what is being done in service of them.

  • I was just pointing out that income does not equate to worth or amount of work one does. It can be lopsided.

  • Did maLARKey “a day ago” accuse sandinwindsor’s “deity” of “covering up” for the “preacher or priest … raping a child”?!

  • Were are agreeing but technically not.
    I agree that the intrinsic value to society of a police officer is far greater than that of any professionally.
    However, the economic value of an athlete far surpasses that of a police officer.
    That is how businesses value labor.
    This is something most people don’t understand; and because of that, fall into the trap of “fairness”.

  • I will agree that it is damn difficult work.
    My point is that teachers most often have extremely superior benefits than firefighters or cops; or the private sector that places stress on the finances of school systems.

  • Par for the course – for your course, anyway. Accused of intellectual laziness, (as if to prove my point) you post an intellectually lazy response: the same cloud of morally accusatory words, the same pose of righteous superiority (and indignation), the same brusque dismissal of intellectual engagement (“no respect for” their viewpoint). It’s an all too easy way to shield yourself from having to occupy your brain with anything other than – you guessed it – your own moral superiority. You really need a pulpit for your moral meditations. I’m guessing you’ve already got your congregation.

  • To “acquire and analyze information the best we can” is a technique common to voters evaluating candidates, juries evaluating the claims of plaintiffs and defendants, and in many other areas of life.

    And no solid information known to date has demonstrated election collusion between Trump and Russia, no matter how much you may want that to be the case. That could always change, but so far it’s been a big fat nothingburger.

  • Yes, we are not in court.

    You’re entitled to believe the earth is flat, your next door neighbor is a Venusian, and the information known to date indicates collusion between Trump and Russia.

    All three are ridiculous, but feel free to hew to them.

  • Do you understand the difference between divine – being a deity – and possessing rightful authority which ultimately stems from the deity?

  • Omg….slow down; you’re getting
    the vapors.
    You obviously have no clue how a business is run.
    A board member provides oversight – it does not manage or have any authority to cut salaries or anything else for that matter. Anything to the contrary would be conflict of interest and probably be in violation of Sarbanes Oxley.
    You “may” know about the law; but you don’t know shit about running a business.

  • Manufacturing productivity has increased, manufacturing employment has dropped, which explains why blue collar workers with high school diplomas are leaving unions and supported Trump.

    Their unions sold them out.

  • And CEO salaries of companies that don’t post a profit – or company profits funneled on to shareholders rather than workers. Give me a break. Fair is fair but CEO compensatiion often has less to do with performance of a company and instead appears to be more of an updated version of feudalism . Sometimes the peasants revolt.

  • You would be wrong about that. In many places, teachers are working second jobs and some are even eligible for food stamps. The health care coverage has declined in quality and vastly increased in cost, as it has for everyone. Pensions are average. Retired teachers are not living high on the hog — I know this, because I am one, and I worked for a large urban district.

    Parroting right-wing, anti-education propaganda won’t do you any good here.

  • You are working in the wrong district. In my city, the cops and firefighters are envious of the teachers.
    Retire at 45. City paid health insurance until age 65. Full pension.

  • Ask the black community who is trapped generation after generation; slaves to the government.
    Dependent on government schools.
    Dependent on government paychecks.
    Dependent on government healthcare.
    Dependent on government housing.
    No end in sight.
    It’s a shame.

  • OMG, too much honesty about a subject is getting you hot under the collar.

    Nothing about your posts show you know how companies are being run other than repeating the garbage they use for lobbying.

    “A board member provides oversight -”

    LMAO! Like Wells Fargo, Enron, and Ford? Corporate governance in the last generation has been nothing more than stock manipulation and gaming the market for short term gain. “Self-Regulation” and “Industry based ratings” have been shown to be complete fictions in light of widespread corporate malfeasance.

    “Anything to the contrary would be conflict of interest and probably be in violation of Sarbanes Oxley. ”

    Which means nothing in a climate of deregulation or in the case of the Trump Administration complete refusal to enforce corporate responsibilties. This is a president who fired his Secretary of State because for wanting to enforce international anti-bribery laws. Corruption is not only widespread it is enabled by the people you mentioned there whose job it is to combat it.

    You are either sadly misinformed or a flat out lying shill.

  • I can point out to several policies which are guided by nothing more than bigotry.

    I can point to conservative Christian leaders promoting not only bigotry, but atrocity.

    The feckless and venal actions of many of these Christian leaders mentioned in this article are fairly common and easy to point out.

    The absolute hypocrisy of denouncing the personal foibles of others and making crap excuses for those who serve some personal benefit is fairly obvious with hundreds of examples.

    The only lazy person here is the one trying to pretend issues of morals, ethics and justice are simply differences in opinion. No, they aren’t. There is right and there is wrong. Some people are on the correct side of that line, some people are not. You frequently are not.

    I am full of morally superior righteous indignation. It helps when I deal with people who invite such reactions. Morally slippery people especially. 🙂

  • You’re watching too many movies. I’d love to hear your insight on “gaming the market” and stock manipulation.
    If you really want to talk; brush up on dark pools and hf trading theory.

  • Progressive Evangelicals
    Evangelical Left
    Emergent Church
    Neo-Evangelicals
    LGBT Evangelicals
    Post-Evangelicals
    Ex-Evangelicals
    Pseudo-Evangelicals
    Ecumenical Evangelicals
    Globalist Evangelicals

    Wanna know why Diane Winston doesn’t mention them? Because she’s one of them and they all love Hillary Clinton for President.

    Call it her preemptive editorial move. Or fear for getting lost in the translation. And for being misunderstood by unintended target readers such as yourself who don’t know the name of the game.

  • (Pst Spuddie had written at Disqus RNS that he’s married to the daughter of the once colonial empire of Asia. Japan. Damien Priestly, no relation, is married to a woman from Thailand, he also once wrote.)

  • And you have grown one, but without the e, and that too replaced with an i before the l. Margaret Atwood likes that about you.

  • Nope. Reading way too many news stories about corporate malfeasance, lack of regulation and outright acceptance of corruption has been destroying the middle class.

    For example, the 2008 recession was one of the greatest shifts of wealth from the hands of the working and middle class to the wealthy. All due to a combination of fraud, misinformation, deregulation, gaming the system, and purely short term profits at the expense of the economy.

  • And Asheists “are drawn to” –

    Neil deGrasse Tyso
    David Silverman
    Lawrence Krauss
    Al Franken

    – all “bankrupting companies” they keep as #MeToo souvenirs.

    Wouldn’t you agree, EtStrangler?

  • After Nancy said: “you have to pass it so we can read it” it became obvious we would never have been able to read Trump’s tweets if we didn’t elect him. Now for reality. My theory is that we hurt Gods feelings when we transgressed the Constitution, and this is why Trump got elected. God is our house, God’s will and testament is the Father, God is the Constitution of his house. Upon his house was our constitution modeled. A house built upon a solid foundation is not supposed to fall, yet, we have to face the fact that there is no way to undo what has been done. The only escape is the book of Revelation. It seems that time is nearly up.

  • Sheer Hillaryphobia accounts for a lot of it. This exhaustive analysis of Evangelical factions, and the potential impact of their political philosophies on the potential voting behavior of their individual members is certainly an interesting discussion, but it rather misses the practical point of how and why Evangelicals could (and did) vote for Trump. Evangelicals really REALLY didn’t want Hillary to be President. I guess that’s too simple for the experts to apply their expertise to — they need complications…hence, this article.

  • What did they expect after trolling America with an openly racist Muslim sympathist for the previous eight years?

  • Not buying that she’s any kind of a “he” other than perhaps an altered one. Ever hear a man whining about “slut-shaming?” Neither have I.

  • How can? Did it occured to them that republicans are much more in line with them than democrats (liberals) ?

  • The reason white evangelicals overwhelmingly vote one way compared to evangelicals of other ethnicities and other Christians is simply that politics is their primary motivator not religion – white evangelicalism is defined more by a certain political worldview than by a particular religious worldview.

  • Before he ran for president? He had a time machine? Man that was silly.

    Do you ever do something besides dishonest deflection?

  • The only holiday gift worth getting? The resignation of Donald Trump, a continuing embarrassment to the any Christian, atheist, Muslim, Jew et. al

  • Specifics on why you are completely and intentionally wrong on a simple fact of chronology? That is all you.

    If we were to exclude party talking points, we would not have 90% of your posts. 🙂

  • Over 80% of Evangelicals voted for Trump. That means they supported him. Voting for someone = supporting them. If you vote for someone, you are literally saying you are in favor of this individual being given power. You can’t vote for someone and then claim you don’t actually support them. We don’t need 5 different flavors of people who voted for Trump to dodge the fact that Evangelicals overwhelmingly support him.

  • Real Christians cannot support Trump. Only those who are pseudo Christians and followers of false prophets can follow Trump.

  • I lived in several school districts with unions and with high spending on a per capita basis. Neither have that much to do with negative out comes. Negative outcomes tend to be the quality and priority that parents put on education and preparing and supporting their children for school and learning.

  • Connelly/Arnzen always plays loose with facts. Dems are pro-choice, not pro-abortion., and are not anti-religious.

  • I’ll support pres. Trump When- He stops calling his mistress horseface, stops lying, stops giving 500mil of taxpayer money to planned parenthood, stops lying, stops having Obama like budgets, stops bragging about walking in on teen girls getting naked ’cause ”he can”. Oh and stops lying about EVERTHING big and small.

  • That’s what I thought.
    On this subject you talk at 50,000 feet throwing around a couple of big company names that had issues 20 years ago; but are unable to provide specifics.
    I’d love to know how big companies transfer wealth from the middle class. I’d love even more to hear your theories on stock price fixing.
    Please do tell….

  • You got the wrong president to blame. Your whataboutism chronology is off.

    “I’d love to know how big companies transfer wealth from the middle class. I’d love even more to hear your theories on stock price fixing. ”

    Constant gaming of the stock market makes it virtually impossible for long term gains. The majority of the middle class are pegging their retirement funds and disposable income on long term stock growth. The wealthy/corporations game the market at their own pace. The finance industry generates most of its wealth from volume of transactions, not money made for clients. Who got bailed out from the mortgage meltdown which destroyed 30-40% of the value of the largest asset middle class people possess? Not the middle class. Just what Republicans in Congress wanted.

    Added to that the increasing frequency of predatory lending to the middle class in both housing and education. Creating untenable debts which hobble those paying them and shift money to the wealthy/corporate interests. Trump supported measures to make predatory lending easier and more profitable at the expense of the middle class.

    Now we have a tax plan which robs the main consumers of taxpayer benefits to go to hoard wealth at the top. It has destroyed jobs and led to wages decreasing. Creating a massive debt which is expected to be borne on the backs of the middle class almost entirely.

    I am giving you far more attention to stupid, dishonest questions than you deserve.

  • You got your timeline wrong. Evidently he was capable of controlling policy before he took office. Funny.

  • Sooooooo, the teachings of my church would have supported me for voting for Hillary?

    BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    You’re joking – right?!

  • Only if they had anything against adulterers, sexual predators, grifters, l1ars, bigots, swindlers, those who victimizethe poor, greedy and habitual liars.

    But evidently yours finds nothing wrong with that.

  • There were 16 other GOP candidates besides Trump. Their policies were quite similar on major issues yet many chose the most morally bankrupt candidate because Trump used Satan’s greatest weapon: fear.

  • I don’t buy that lie about it being a vote against Hillary. The GOP had 16 other candidates to choose from. Yet, many Evangelicals didn’t care about Biblical values or basic human decency and went with a prideful, arrogant man. So, stop with this nonsense of it being about Trump vs. Hillary.

  • It’s actually fairly simple. Evangelicals are the new Calvinists/Puritans and therefore are not Christians. They follow the teachings of John Calvin & Oliver Cromwell not The Christ. Too bad they cannot be sued for slandering The Christ.

  • It’s not a lie, it’s an opinion. So dial back the righteous indignation.

    The reality is, Hillary Clinton lost to arguably the worst GOP candidate in history. Think what you like, but that has to say something about her weaknesses as a candidate. She also blundered strategically, taking for granted states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan where she was leading going into the home stretch.

    Believe me, I have no fondness for Trump. But reality is reality. Hillary Clinton was not a strong Democratic nominee.

  • In comparison to the other guy, sure.

    Especially given your need to lie and deflect to defend that guy. So bad your go-to stance is to avoid talking about him.

  • Better question for Diane:

    How could have Christians voted for Hillary?

    Please provide citations from the Bible; and for us Catholics – the catechism of the church.

  • Lol! Poor snowflake is annoyed he is being called out on positions which are morally, ethically and at times legally wrong.

  • That would be more correctly white blue collar workers so I have read in terms of 2016. Unions have nothing to do with selling them out. It is Republican policy with right to work laws that have helped erode the power of unions to bargain leaving those votes dependent on who is in power and making the vote labile based on who is promising what.

  • Answered. I said sure.

    Why wouldn’t a Christian support a women who stayed loyal to her only husband despite his indiscretions?

    One who is on the board of a charity “A” rated for transparency. Whose professional ethics have been thoroughly vetted by 30 years of close examination by opponents.

    Compared to a serial adulterer, professed sexual predator, who stole from a charity meant to help the poor, stole from his own supporters to cover up an adulterous affair, who demands people to ignore or break laws concerning corrupt practices, cheated working people of their money, and a white supremacist to boot.

    Nobody taking the words of Jesus seriously would go near Trump.

  • It’s called a rate of return on investment. An exchange of value between the investor and business. All people (average Americans) that have a 401k or pension like dividends. Not nefarious in the least.
    You’re probably against paying interest on corporate bonds too…
    Next….

  • Oh, so Christ would prefer me to vote for a liar, theif, adulterer, murder supporter called Hilary Clinton?

  • That would be meritocracy as a theory you are referring to – economics BTW is a social science and does not exist in a vacuum . Subject to a number of variables and includes a number of theories. Unionization is generally lauded for its creation of a strong middle class in the US supporting generational class mobility and a reliable consumer based for goods produced in the US.

    You might tell the Pope that his thoughts on addressing income inequality are unnecessary.

  • Who is a liar herself.
    Who supports the murder of innocent life.
    Who (probably) is an adulterer.
    Who is a theif.
    Who is disingenuous.

  • White evangelicals – at least the Southern ones I know – voted for Trump because he was the Republican candidate. There was no thought of voting for Clinton or the Democrats – regardless of what kind of man he was. But it was the unhappy swing voters in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania who gave Trump the victory.

  • Being “called out” for something that didn’t happen, not only doesn’t annoy me, it barely even tickles my attention. Your “poor snowflake” retort is just your last (desperate) effort to deflect being called out yourself. It’s your fantasy. Enjoy it while you’re able to. Everybody else can see through it.

  • Nice, but chump change, lying , exaggeration and guessing compared to the flaming dumpster fire you considered an alternative.

    There is no record of her adultery or even allegations. No proof of theft and far more genuine from a man whose staff coined the term “alternative facts”.

    Your judgment is impaired.

  • Because the piece of crap called Trump was far far worse.

    Especially since she is not an adulterer, thief or supporter of murder. Abortion isn’t murder btw.

    It’s funny how much you have to lie and exaggerate to rationalize your monumentally poor judgment of character. Then again miscreants have to stick together I suppose.

  • See, it’s all relative buddy. Clinton’s sins are not sins in your eyes; as trumps sins are not sins in my eyes.
    We both rationalize to get to the decision we want.
    At least your being honest.

  • Not at all. I didn’t have to rely on rumor, fictions and wild exaggeration to state a point. You are trying desperately to find some falee equivalence for your support of such an objectively terrible human being.

    Clinton Foundation is still “A” rated.

    The Trump Foundation was dissolved due to constant embezzlement and fraud.

    Better the one who gives to the poor then the one who robs them.

  • Still fuming I see. But with no actual point to make here. Certainly nothing specific enough to care about.

  • Paul’s first convert was a Eunuch.

    Had you read a bible you’d know this.

    Go one now make your complete lack of Christianity clearer.

  • The same way as always. By exposing fibs, cluelessness and bad attitudes. It’s a version of the same things you hope for when thinking that the terrorism factor can be cleaned out of ISIS, Taliban, Boko Haram and the others. Or that Martin Luther thought when he counted up 95 problems with The Church in his day. Or that anyone thought after the burning of the last witch. Or that anyone thought in forcing Mormons to abandon plural marriage. Or that Northerners thought when they chased slavery out of the American Bible Belt.

    Today, we have Churchians taught to worship the supposed magic of unregulated or underregulated markets. We have Churchians selling their very souls on all other issues for their desire to marginalize LGBT people. We have Churchians trying to teach false natural history to children. There is lots of work to be done about the damage religion has lately been doing to civics.

  • LOL!

    All I have to say is:
    Clinton Foundation, still “A” rated for transparency. Provides services to the poor

    Trump Foundation, forced to be dissolved like an Alka Seltzer for embezzlement. Used as a personal piggy bank by Trump rather than provide services to the poor.

    Which one would Jesus support? Hmmm

  • Your point is that you are fuming mad at what I had to say and didn’t want to get into specifics. Oh well.

  • Union had everything to do with selling them out.

    Unions supported candidates with proven track records of entering into agreements disadvantageous to American workers with countries with no OSHA, no EPA, and no pensions requirements so that they had to compete with sweatshops and worse in Latin America and Asia.

    You can’t “bargain” for that which does not exist and there is no solid evidence that right-to-work laws disadvantage anyone but the unions:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#Studies_of_economic_effect

  • No, we have economists and experience noting that free markets are associated with economic growth and sustained prosperity.

    “Churchians”, apparently your name for those who don’t share your zany neo-Marxist viewpoints who happen to attend church, have nothing at all to do with it.

    However, you and Ms. Winston are nearly on the same page.

  • Trump has accomplished more in first two years than either Obama or Bush II did.

    Perhaps what you meant to write was “the GOP candidate I personally disliked the most”.

  • As long as the Democrats support abortion on demand with no limits and the LGBT Lobby with no questions, they are going to have big problems.

  • That 80% number has been sliced, diced, and discarded.

    It was a spin by the losing side.

    The reality of the election is much more complex.

    You make no distinction between the party and the candidate.

    In the case of Hillary BOTH the party and the candidate are unacceptable to many Christians.

    In the case of Trump, the party may be acceptable despite the candidate.

  • That certainly is Ms. Winston’s, Dr. Silk’s, and your simplistic take.

    It has almost no purchase in reality and does not correspond to the post-election research on motivations.

  • So is s*tan a typo, or redaction , or “slandering The Christ”, who once said, Get thee behind Me (dot) (dot) (dot)?

  • Is sharto short for so-hard-to … what? Finish it for me, please. What is it that’s so hard for you to … “support”? … “stop lying” about? … “stop walking in on” whom?

  • True Christians™ can render & must render unto Caesar I mean Trump.

    You can’t because george is engorged with the Pus of … y’know.

    By True Christians™ I mean not you, but all born-from-above, fired-up and die-hard followers of THE Christ Jesus of the gospels, epistles and revelation, by enduring the cross that they carry in their lives of faith in response to the ransoming Fatherly love of God through the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of His own beloved Son, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel and the savior of the rest of the world.

  • “5 different flavors of people”?! EWW DUDE – what are you – a KanNiBaal?!

    Can you not see what’s happening to you? MadSeancist is now turning into a KanNiBaal having tasted “5 different flavors of people” thus far!

  • OXYMORON. Your expressions of bigotry don’t make sense at all. For how, in the first place, can “white evangelicalism [be] defined more by a certain political worldview than by a particular religious worldview”, given this medical fact:

    White Snow Blindness is a painful, temporary loss of vision, the medical term for which is photokeratitis-in-white. In such cases, no worldview of politics, religion, whatever else, is possible.

  • Stop lying about millions of Mexicans voted for Hillary, Obama taped him in W.H.. Trump told H. Stern about how he could walk in on teen beauty contestants in the dressing room when they are undressing because Trump owned the pageant. Do you know ANYTHING about Donald Trump?

  • Meh. Birds of a feather. Racist hatemongers know one of their own when they see him even though he reads Two Corinthians and can’t recite the Apostle’s Creed like his 2016 opponent, a cradle Methodist and arguably the most religious nominee since Jimmy Carter and right up there with Bryan, McGovern, J. Jackson, Sharpton, Mondale, B. Harrison, Garfield, and the Adamses. Most of the religious right hypocrites can’t name three of four gospels or eight or ten commandments.

  • You missed my point completely — as usual. And — of course –failed completely respond to it. The only thing you can do is hang on to your fantasy with a death grip.

  • Unions have squat to do with support for off-shoring to global sweatshops. Republicans as a rule are generally much more supportive of such trade agreements. based on historic roll call voting while unions have typically allied with Democrats. Research suggests wages are lower, for all workers https://www.epi.org/publication/right-to-work-states-have-lower-wages/ there is no gain in overall employment and overall impact is greatest for non college educated workers and non-whites with such states having lower standards of living. However, given that the level of unionization is relatively low, on a broader scale the decline in unionization has also been considered a factor in the income inequality ratio along with other policies such as tax structures and tax sheltering.

  • Yes agree with you – white evangelical does at times seem like an oxymoron since I doubt any other Christian group has been more effective in turning people away from Christianity in recent times.

  • Since the statistics were derived from exit polls involving self-identification, they are not reliable data.

    Analysis since the election shows a different picture.

  • Unions have invariably supported the politicians who vote for trade agreements which have transferred jobs off-shore, starting with Bill Clinton.

    If you operate in a global market those sweatshops set the wage scale.

    Unions are for the most part on their way out in manufacturing as workers act in their own self-interest and dump the unions, union-supported candidates, and get real.

  • So, you’re now demonstrating, sharto is short. I mean short for so-hard-to … un-unhinge? … snowflakey-melt? … detoxicate from The Wine of Deep-State Propaganda?

  • If as you’ve OXYMORONIZED, “[blinding snow] white evangelicalism [is] defined … by a certain political worldview … by a particular religious worldview”, the medical fact I gave you proves you are a DEEP-STATE DUPE & DUMPSTER.

  • Giving taxes to Caesar with Caeser’s coin is one thing when Caeser is an autocrat from an occupying force and refusing to approve or support an immoral leader through peaceful means in a democratic society is another. Both political parties have compromised morals without a doubt, it is just that the Republicans are all about greed and serving the rich.

  • Well, the best thing for you and the nation is not to vote, if you cannot figure out who is the lesser of the two evils..

  • “Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.” 1 John 4:20

  • Vlad: Hey DonnieBoy thanks of nice exiting of Syria. Me and our buddy Hafez so grateful and happy and lots more arms sales to everybody from Russia now. Maybe we three watch “streaming” together again soon in Moscow penthouse you build for me. View from above always best. Sweet times.

    Donald TRump: Your welcome PootieBaby. I want to put my arms and small hands around your bare chest and we can ride bareback together again. I need to leave America soon before Mueller nails me. Getting too hot here. Siberia looks good.

  • So, your scheme is to “clear the fog which has enshrouded the churches” by attacking them for offending your political sensibilities – “the same way as always.” Good plan. Attacking people is always the best way of changing their minds about anything.

  • Nice try – Bush signed NAFTA in 1992 and Clinton resigned the following year – both parties hands were on it and it was sold as a job creator. There is even a phrase ‘Reagan Economic Zone’ that the Republicans endorsed for open markets. Since MAFTA, no support by unions for trade deals in spite of financial support politically – example TPP under Obama – not a single union supported in spite of financially contribution to his campaign. unionization has declined significantly over the last Generally Republicans have been more hostile to unions but also Democrats. And they have similar sounding caveats about trade agreements.

  • I had something in mind more like 95 enlightening grievances about their present-day negative influence being put on their doors—-maybe on all of society’s doors.

  • The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on December 8, 1993.

    The passage of NAFTA was one of Clinton’s first major “victories” as the first Democratic president in 12 years.

    During its planning stages, NAFTA was heavily criticized by Reform Party presidential candidate Ross Perot, who argued that if NAFTA was passed, Americans would hear a “giant sucking sound” of American companies fleeing the United States for Mexico, where employees would work for less pay and without benefits.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LvZAZ-HV4

    That prediction turned out to be prescient.

    The “Reagan Economic Zone” was a scheme by Mitt Romney in 2011:

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/shaking-things-up-if

    “I will create the ‘Reagan Economic Zone,’ a partnership among countries committed to free enterprise and free trade. It will serve as a powerful engine for opening markets to our goods and services, and also a mechanism for confronting nations like China that violate trade rules while free-riding on the international system. I will not stand by while China pursues an economic development policy that relies on the unfair treatment of U.S. companies and the theft of their intellectual property. I have no interest in starting a trade war with China, but I cannot accept our current trade surrender.”

    It went nowhere fast for good reasons.

  • Indeed. First, people need to understand that the miseducation of church folks is absolutely the ONLY reason why they (we) are enduring Trumpism in their country. Then, they need to understand who did the miseducating and what the root of the miseducation is. THEN, finally grasping the nature of their predicament, they will outvote it.

  • CORRECTION: “‘[McAryans] claiming to love God yet [branding and condemning] a brother or sister [as white evangelicals] is a liar. For [McAryans] not lov[ing her] brother and sister, hav[ing] seen [them with an evil eye as white evangelicals], cannot love God, whom [she] ha[s] not seen.’ 1 John 4:20”

  • I’d agree with you – if I disregarded the fact that everything you said was wrong…starting with “the miseducation of church folks is absolutely the ONLY reason why they enduring Trumpism in their country.”

    No – that’s the only reason your anti-Christian prejudice will allow you to settle on as an explanation for their political position (maybe they just despised Hillary; maybe they just rejected what she stood for) “Nothing But-ism” (also known as gross oversimplification) is the sure sign of oversimplified thinking – the foundation from which bigotry builds.

  • Tell me how many fools at church want the Affordable Care Act overturned on technicalities with no replacement plan READY to protect people on all details at the flick of a changeover switch and I will tell you what Trumpism is. Tell me how many fools at church are still claiming that millions of illegal votes are why Hillary Clinton won the 2016 popular vote and I will tell you what Trumpism is. It is not our job to convince you of anything. It is our job to get the world views of Trumpian fools out of power and into irrelevance.

    I’m sorry that the main body of support for Trump is at White Evangelical Church, but that is where it is. So that is where the counter-effort is going to point as being the mess which must be cleaned up.

  • Apparently your job is to get the warped world view of anti-Trumpian fools before the public, so we can subject it (and them) to the rejection and mockery they deserve.

  • Our job is to be the best country, the best people we can be. That is done by telling each other the best-known truth on all subjects, being as honest and kind as possible in the small areas of life—-our own interactions with people up close—–and the bigger areas such as what we celebrate in leadership. We are to truthfully define ideals and then work to make them happen for real.

  • Vlad: hey Orange1 your economy tanking so glad you support socialist Russiamerica future. Thanks also for exit Syria. Me and buddy Hafez greatful thanks to you and we three do streaming views in Moscow trump tower together again soon yes?

    Donald TRump: Pootie Baby, getting really hot here on me with Mueller going to impeach my ass. I need trip to Moscow and be safe there.

    Vlad: No problem DonnieBoy. We make apartment in Siberia for you next to Eddie Snowden and big babushkas keep you warm and your small hands busy yes. I handle Melanoma for you and no problem with my big bare chest on hers.

  • From your own citation:

    “Before sending it to the United States Senate Clinton added two side agreements, the North American Agreement on Labor Cooperation (NAALC) and the North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation (NAAEC), to protect workers and the environment, and to also allay the concerns of many House members. …. The bill passed the Senate on November 20, 1993, 61–38. Senate supporters were 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; the agreement went into effect on January 1, 1994. Clinton, while signing the NAFTA bill, stated that ‘NAFTA means jobs. American jobs, and good-paying American jobs. If I didn’t believe that, I wouldn’t support this agreement.’”

    Bill Clinton was a Democrat and, last time I checked, still is.

    As to “Reagan Economic zone is a term presumably honouring Reagan for his early version of NAFtA – FTA between the US and Canada”, I am unable to find any citation supporting your assertion, and apparently neither were you.

    I simply love it when nits from the Commonwealth come to instruct Americans in American history.

  • “Our job is to be the best country, the best people, etc, etc…”

    That sounds good. But that’s all it is – sounds. Your posting history makes it clear that your real “job” is to denigrate Christians and Conservatives. It’s the one theme to which you return, again and again, and the vehemence of your language betrays the intensity with which you pursue it. Your prejudice IS your message, no matter how you try to pretty it up with civic-sounding sentiments.

  • Christians, to me, are people who look to be the servants of those whose lives are difficult, perhaps especially those who are serving us every day The smarter one is, the more education one has, the more privilege one lives in, the more security one has, the more wealth one has, the more discretionary power one has,….

    The more he or she is then obligated to help others up and along in tangible ways. If I don’t know and don’t care what happens if my oil-change guy’s wife has a serious medical event, then I have no business dancing around church. Likewise anyone else. It’s about that simple.

  • Heya heya folks we aren’t facing a mere shutdown. This is a TRUMPDOWN and the Orange1 is getting PWNED by it bigtime.

  • Vlad: hey Orange1 your economy tanking so glad you support socialist Russiamerica future. Thanks also for exit Syria. Me and buddy Hafez greatful thanks to you and we three do streaming views in Moscow trump tower together again soon yes?

    Donald TRump: Pootie Baby, getting really hot here on me with Mueller going to impeach my ass. I need trip to Moscow and be safe there with my physical intimate socialist Mark Connelly.

    Vlad: No problem DonnieBoy. We make apartment in Siberia for you next to Eddie Snowden and big babushkas keep you warm and your small hands busy yes. I handle Melanoma for you and no problem with my big bare chest on hers.

  • Heya heya folks we aren’t facing a mere shutdown. This is becoming a TRUMPDOWN and the Orange1 is getting PWNED by it bigtime.

  • As I said, Bush signed and then Clinton resigned. It is the same as Trump signing the new agreement while it has yet to go though Senate. I played nice without adding as you pointed out the additional terms intended to protect American workers. and the environment Otherwise, it likely would have been passed in 1993 as was signed off by Bush should there have been a new Republican president. Can’t blamed Democrats for international trade policies or for selling workers short.- as I said both parties have seen open markets as good for American business.

    Romney frequently channeled Reagan in his run for president. Conjecture but consistent with all of his other Reagan references.

  • Bush’s signature did NOT enact NAFTA.

    In American law a treaty can ONLY be enacted with the approval of the Senate.

    Obama signed the Paris Accord on Climate. It has zero effect.

    Stick to what you know – this is not it.

  • Vlad: hey Orange1 your economy tanking so glad you support socialist Russiamerica future. Thanks also for exit Syria. Me and buddy Hafez greatful thanks to you and we three do streaming views in Moscow trump tower together again soon yes?

    Donald TRump: Pootie Baby, getting really hot here on me with Mueller going to impeach my ass. I need trip to Moscow and be safe there with my physical intimate buddy Mark Connelly.

    Vlad: No problem DonnieBoy. We make apartment in Siberia for you next to Eddie Snowden and big babushkas keep you warm and your small hands busy yes. I handle Melanoma divorce for you and no problem with my big bare chest on hers.

  • Listen up folks. We’ve got ourselves a TRUMPDOWN and Orange T.Rump and his evangitard base are getting PWNED by it.

  • Heya heya folks we aren’t facing a mere shutdown. This is a TRUMPDOWN and the Orange1 is getting PWNED by it bigtime. Mark Connelly is still “servicing” him though.

  • Heya heya folks we aren’t facing a mere shutdown. This is a TRUMPDOWN and the Orange1 is getting PWNED by it bigtime yet Mark Connelly is still servicing him on knees.

  • Thanks. I am pure genius compared to you too.

    Greetings from Russiamerica and thanks for your frequent service on knees and support.

  • Splitting hairs – you opened this up by blaming Democrats and unions for free trade and off-shoring. Reagan signed CUSFTA in 1984 which he ordered to be fast-tracked. As it had a 10 year lifespan, re-negotiations were presided over by Bush who signed it but ran out of time to send it to the Senate. and then which Clinton then amended with the 2 areas added as noted which was passed as amended by the Senate. https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-12-18-1992353055-story.html Note that unions were against NAFTA – like they were for other agreements.

    The Paris accord is like comparing apples and oranges and is sidebar.

    Ever wonder why a Canadian Prime Minister would be even asked to speak at George W. Bush’s funeral?

  • Heya heya folks we aren’t facing a mere shutdown. This is a TRUMPDOWN and the Orange1 is getting PWNED by it bigtime yet Mark Connelly is still servicing him deeply on knees.

  • Thanks, it is always funny when a White liberal openly admits that their own attributes are undesirable by lobbing them as insults towards others in an “I know you are but what am I?” fashion.

  • Typical White liberal. Silence and censor any and all descending opinions whenever your argument sucks, which is frequent.

  • Thanks, it is always funny when White liberals openly admit that their own attributes are undesirable by identifying them as personal attacks.

  • Harass me any more and I’m simply going to block you and assume you’ve been banned.

    Your remedial posts are common and you won’t even be remembered.

  • If unregulated “free” markets do what you say they do then why is the middle-class disappearing while those that are at the top are thriving like never before? Our economy is doing well because of the carefully thought-out plans of the previous administration’s policies. Can you imagine if these policies would’ve continued? We are now seeing more debt and more poverty on the rise. The policies now being pursued are continuing the predatory business practices of Wall Street firms and worldwide conglomerates that will most likely catapult us into another great recession where the most cunning businesses will survive and will consolidate wealth at the very top while leaving the rest of the population in a situation that will only cause violence and destruction. This not what capitalism was in the 50s and 60s. Our economy was setup with a sense of national pride because it made everyone stronger including our country. We all know that one person was able to support a family with only his/her salary. Today we can barely afford to house one person let alone a family. If this is white MAGA evangelicalism then how can anyone come to believe that Christianity is helpful at all? This type of belief actually chases away the unbeliever. This type of American evangelism has lost all moral standing. Very sad.

  • What a dummy . . . LOL. Do you also believe the Earth is flat and the Illuminati is in control of government? 😀

  • Yes. Right-wing ideologues are all about confusion and lies and with tRump It has reached a level of self-delusion. Many will be furious when they wake up from this dream-like state.

  • “Our economy is doing well because of the carefully thought-out plans of the previous administration’s policies.”

    What carefully “thought-out plans”?

  • i am a spiritual person that reads and follows the bible but i am not religious. my question is why is it bad to be gay and for gays to marry. Gay people most of them anyway were born that why..my feeling is God may have done that to not over populate the world. Why do churches press on about gays when its not even said right out in the bible yet the bible states that you are not to divorce! your not to cheat committing adultery! sex is for procreation so that one there stops not only sex between same sex but any sex where you do not want to have children. i could go on and on but i am just asking why are the other things hardly ever attacked but religious people get all bent out of shape about gay people.

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