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At March for Life, crowd cheers for anti-abortion gains — and Trump

Anti-abortion activists march toward the U.S. Supreme Court during the annual March for Life in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 18, 2019. (AP Photo/Jose Luis Magana)

WASHINGTON (RNS) — The theme of this year’s March for Life, an annual anti-abortion gathering in the nation’s capital, was supposed to be about science: “Unique from Day One: Pro-Life is Pro-Science.”

But as the masses assembled on the National Mall, speakers and attendees seemed more interested in other topics, namely religion and politics.

Politicians in particular were well represented. Vice President Mike Pence made a surprise appearance at the event, striding on stage with his wife, Karen, to address what March for Life president Jeanne Mancini described as possibly the largest crowd in event history.

“It is my privilege to stand with you for life,” Karen Pence said before introducing the vice president, whom she called a “very pro-life person.”

“We’re the Pences and we’re pro-life!” said the vice president, a conservative Christian who also spoke in person at the gathering in 2017. He described the anti-abortion movement as “animated by faith” and said he had the “privilege” of casting the tie-breaking vote in 2017 in the Senate for legislation that targeted funding for Planned Parenthood. Pence also praised President Donald Trump’s appointment of conservative judges to the federal court of appeals.

“The truth is Donald Trump is the most pro-life president in American history,” he said.

Many signs had a political undertone at the annual March for Life on Jan. 18, 2019, in Washington, D.C. RNS photo by Jack Jenkins

Trump was popular with the sprawling crowd, which erupted with shouts and cheers at the mention of his name. Images of Jesus Christ were held aloft next to participants wearing hats that read “TRUMP 2020.” One sign conflated the president’s favored slogan and the theme of the day: “Make unborn babies great again!”

Pence, too, rolled together the strong faith orientation of the crowd and his boss’s image in his speech, citing scripture such as Jeremiah 1:5 (“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you”) before introducing a video message from Trump.

“As president I will always defend the first right in our Declaration of Independence: the right to life,” Trump said in the clip. He added that his administration supports faith-based adoption services and announced he has signed a letter promising to veto “any legislation … that weakens the protection of human life.”

Later in the program, Sen. Steve Daines (R-Mont.) explained Trump’s announcement was a direct response to a letter sent to the White House earlier this week by 48 anti-abortion senators asking him to back their cause. Daines then declared he has created “the first pro-life caucus” in the history of the U.S. Senate.

Speakers address the crowd of tens of thousands at the annual March for Life on Jan. 18, 2019, in Washington, D.C. RNS photo by Jack Jenkins

The celebration of the anti-abortion movement’s political gains ignored a setback just 24 hours earlier, when Senate Republicans failed in their effort to approve a permanent ban on federal funding of abortion. The legislation, called the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act, was seen as a largely symbolic effort to coincide with the march, but it ended up exposing the somewhat permeable political lines of the modern abortion debate: Two Democrats, Sens. Bob Casey and Joe Manchin, voted for the measure, while Republican Sens. Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski voted against it.

And while the March for Life primarily featured speeches from Republicans, organizers also pushed for representation from anti-abortion Democrats, such as Illinois Rep. Dan Lipinski and Louisiana State Rep. Katrina Jackson.

“I tell people when they ask me in my state: ‘Why are you a black, female Democrat fighting for life?’ I say ‘Because I’m a Christian first!’” Jackson said, sparking applause.

The event also showcased two appearances by controversial political commentator Ben Shapiro. The conservative pundit kicked off the event’s morning session with a live recording of his podcast, “The Ben Shapiro Show,” in which he attempted to debunk arguments against the anti-abortion movement before pivoting to a discussion of faith.

“We do have to recognize one religious root to every argument that I make, and that is innate value of human life — that is a religiously based argument,” said Shapiro, who is Jewish. “(God) also gave us the most important verse in the history of humanity: that human beings are made in the image of God. Without that fundamental assumption … none of this matters, and no policy argument matters.”

Demonstrators with the Jewish Pro-Life Foundation participate in the annual March for Life on Jan. 18, 2019, in Washington, D.C. RNS photo by Jack Jenkins

Standing in the crowd was Cecily Routman, head of the Jewish Pro-Life Foundation. She told Religion News Service that when Mancini contacted her last year to inquire about possible Jewish voices to bring to the event, she quickly suggested Shapiro.

“His sentiments are well-received on the issue,” said Routman, who had traveled from Pittsburgh with her husband to attend the march.

She insisted that Judaism is “the original pro-life religion,” despite overwhelming support for abortion rights among American Jews, according to Pew Research.

“Somehow our religion has become so corrupted,” she said.

Catholics had the most visible presence at the gathering. Several Vatican flags waved above the crowd, many carried signs referring to their home parish or diocese, and Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kan., opened the event in prayer alongside representatives from the Orthodox Church. Security at the event was provided by a combination of armed local police and dozens of men in white sports jackets from the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic group.

Standing near the stage was Michele Thomas, who held aloft a cross next to her daughter, Mia, who was adopted from Vietnam. The pair, also from Pittsburgh, said their Catholic faith drives their anti-abortion stance.

“We love women, but we feel that life is the most important thing,” Michele Thomas said. “Christ gave us the opportunity to bring life to earth, and that’s why we’re here.”

The two effectively modeled what has become a rallying cry among anti-abortion activists: that adoption is preferable to abortion.

“If it wasn’t for adoption I wouldn’t be here with the family that I have,” said Mia, a high school senior. “I could have been aborted when I was a baby but I ended up being put up for adoption instead.… You have to kind of let faith take you through life.”

About the author

Jack Jenkins

Jack Jenkins is a national reporter for RNS based in Washington, covering U.S. Catholics and the intersection of religion and politics.

219 Comments

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  • Feckless fools grifted into attacking their own economic interests with the empty promise of turning women into chattel property of the state.

    Notice how quickly Trump was able to roll back regulations of corporate activities, consumer protection, pollution control, employer rights, and have a tax plan that gives away trillions to the uppermost wealthy at the expense of all people who work for a living, but abortion rights remain in place.

    BTW I wonder how many mistresses Trump paid abortions for.

  • “BTW I wonder how many mistresses Trump paid abortions for.”

    Why, are you hoping to be next?

  • Based on comments throughout the article, it is clear that the March for Life pro-life movement is really limited by a pro-birth orientation, verbiage to the contrary. It makes me sad to see this end-point and no doubt costs support from others who believe that this agenda item should be greater than simply this.

  • Good to see that the pro-birth people are still a loyal part of the Trump Cult. He will need all the gullibles he can get in 2020.

  • A pro-birth orientation is essential to a pro-life position.

    You can’t have a life if you’re not born.

  • Wonderful news about adoption should have occurred in the headline and first line. The many marchers, as usual, made this event a success. We need a constitutional amendment to stop abortions in 3rd trimester.

  • ‘The only moral abortion is my abortion’ is a fascinating read on the mindset of these people. They only care about the sentiment, about ”’life”’, but the suffering and need of those alive? it means nothing to them, they support those that worsen it. And when it’s their turn to choose, they are cowards that use services others fought so hard for, and doctors that their people have harassed and murdered, then they step back onto the streets to try and stifle those same services, to make them illegal again. ”Unborn babies” are easy to fight for, because they’re not humans that need welfare, housing, medical care, education, a better economic system etc., they’re literally hypothetical humans for these people to feel good about ””saving””

  • Gee, I guess you missed all the hospitals and charities Christians support to help “the suffering and need of those alive”. That’s what happens when you’re too busy spouting your boiler pate abortionist talking points to actually think on your own.

    And “hypothetical humans”?! Who talks like that?

    Oh, that’s right! Any group that wants strip another group of their basic humanity, so they can treat them however they like.

    You know, like a certain group classified some humans as “untermenschen”, to make their plans go a little easier.

    That’s sure nice company you keep! You can stow your hypocritical moral outrage. We can see the crowd you run with, so we’re not buying it.

  • Apparently we’re missing all the hospitals and charities atheists and Planned Parenthood supprort.

    Whaddya mean there are none?

  • Been there, done that on many a cold January day. Now my only recommendation is that the name be changed to March for Responsible Adults Using Effective Contraception! Why?

    The failures of the widely used birth “control” methods i.e. the pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions and STDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the pill or condoms properly and/or use other more effective methods (e.g. an IUD) in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and STDs. Doing so would reduce the consideration of an abortion by 90% basically making the abortion issue and the March for Life moot.

  • Which brings me to my next question. When will our society wake up? Because abortion and birth control hurt women, men, and children.

  • Actually nowadays Christian support of hospitals is more corporatized than charity. Catholic hospital corps are snatching up private non-affiliated hospitals in areas. Also, conservative efforts to privatize public ones enables it further.Those same hospitals deny medically necessary care to patients if it suits their religious dogma.

    The same Christians who oppose abortion rights are the ones who call for cuts to public benefits for children (literally taking food from their mouths), attack education, support discrimination, promote child abuse, and usually support the death penalty. There is nothing pro-life about them.

    The position is fetus worship.

  • No it doesn’t. There is no sane argument against birth control, period. It is why there are only irrational religious ones left.

    Arguments against birth control are essentially demanding women have a subservient place in our society and demanding families impoverish themselves for your faith.

    Abortion is only an issue because fetus worshipers have an undue interest in controlling the bodies of women. Demanding to treat women as their chattel property, whose bodies are to be commanded.

    So it is also demanding women are not only subservient, but no longer people. Nobody has to pay attention to your concern for the unborn.
    Not your body, none of your business.

  • Then why don’t they make more birth control for men? Birth Control hurts women. Natural Family Planning does not. Freedom from birth control would show that women are not subservient. Freedom from abortion would show that children have value.

  • They have tried to expand male contraception options actually. Its more difficult because the methods need to be more creative. A medical science problem.

    Birth control hurts nobody. Natural family planning is a myth like clean coal. It does not exist. Its effectiveness is gauged by the spiraling birthrates and family sizes in places where contraception is unavailable.

    Lack of birth control means women do not control when they want to or are able to have children. Limiting their full participation in society. Since the widespread availability of birth control and its legality, women have become more educated on average, entered the workplace more easily, and taken up more positions of authority than before. It has made them more equal members of society.

    Abortion shows children have value. Children are born. When one chooses to have children on their own terms, they are most valued of all.

    Your position is ridiculous and nothing but empty slogans. You have put zero thought into this.

  • I’m going to have to be a critic here, but not in the blatant way shown on Youtube!
    https://nfp.marquette.edu/definition_nfp.php
    I have put my life into our position. And so have many others. As you can see, they marched yesterday. You cannot dismiss us so easily, as is shown by the fact that you are commenting on the article on this event.

  • “If you like slavery, ban abortion”

    If you have brain damage, that makes some sort of sense.

  • So, if you’re against murder, you’re guilty of people worship?

    These slogans of yours are only making the case you don’t have a case.

  • If Ah don’t like being murdered, Ah’ma get me a Taurus Judge! Gonna put an **Instant Courtroom** on all these crooks!!

  • LOL! A Catholic University discouraging contraception for its students. Not exactly an objective source there.

    Rather than rely on people with a vested interest in promoting something without evidence or rational arguments behind it, I refer you to actual experts on the subject.
    https://www.hhs.gov/opa/pregnancy-prevention/birth-control-methods/natural-family-planning-and-fertility-awareness/index.html

    Its been used for centuries and been the equivalent of no birth control at all. Hence the high birth rates and family sizes in predominately Catholic countries where birth control is either banned or made difficult to obtain.

  • Oddly enough some of the same folks touting abortion also oppose honest citizens being armed.

    Spuddie leads that list.

    Logic apparently doesn’t play a part in their deliberations.

  • “fetus worship”, “hypothetical humans” – Yeah, we can hear the jackboots of the genocidal crowd you are marching with.

    Not buying your hypocritical outrage, Fraulein Spuddie.

  • Not discouraging, encouraging. Like all the health experts tell you to eat natural foods!
    The government has a vested interest in birth control, and it is not for love of the common human being.

  • Promoting something with a centuries old record of being ineffective for purposes of promoting dogma.

    People have a vested interest in birth control, by overwhelming majority. Therefore the government meeting their demands has an interest in it.

    Churches have a vested interest in attacking birth control. There are no rational arguments against it.

  • Sorry, Mrs. Legree, not going down that avenue with you again. You already exposed yourself in front of everybody by making slave-holder arguments in a previous discussion.

  • “Jackboots”, “genocide”, “marching”. Yeah you don’t use loaded language at all or try to misrepresent positions here.

    Hypocrites are people like yourself who are annoyed about receiving things they deliver to others constantly.

    You support turning women into property of the state. You are a slaver.

  • Snark it is not, neither poo. Everyone here knows precisely what the crux of the slave-holder’s justification for slavery was. It is the same as yours.

    Men rarely watch A Handmaid’s Tale, either.

  • Natural family planning is more effective today, because a woman’s fertile period can be more easily determined. Taking one’s temperature is quite effective.

    Under the capitalist system which is propped up by socialism, the government regulates what it considers “health care.” They are interested in workers — not people. They buy into Planned Parenthood’s policies. Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) was unabashedly of this mind. She had a whole list of those she considered to be “undesirable” people. You can see that this attitude still exists among those who are anti-Jewish, which leads to the talk about the Women’s march in DC, today, and the DNC’s slap on the wrist for their efforts.

  • Apparently ‘all the hospitals’ represents a total of 604 hospitals (13% or 18% of hospital beds) which receive 36% public funding and 12 % MedciAid dollars as well as 30% from county appropriations, 30% from investments and 5% from charitable donations. Direct church funding for church run hospitals account for 0.0015% of funding. For profit hospitals generate gross patient revenue from 0.8% of charity cases, religious hospitals from 1.9%, secular non-profits come in at 2% and secular hospitals at 5.1% comes from charitable care.

    And given that 74% of women getting abortions in 2014 were at the poverty level, while 62% indicated they had a religious affiliation, Liz has a very valid point on the need to address contributing factors.

  • The elderly have a vested interest in attacking birth control, as the Japanese are finding out.

    That’s one more rational argument against it.

  • So, what you’re saying is you and your family are going to be a minority and the Catholics the majority.

    I think we all figured you had an ulterior motive under all the bluster.

  • Indeed. Only one of us is triggered — the other is having an excellent time. Guess which is which? 😀

  • Students from a Catholic school who were supposed to be attending to March for Life also chose to harass a drummer participating in the Indigenous Peoples March being held at the same time. You need to update your sense of history of the treatment of Native Indians in the US if you can’t see a conflict between student actions and why they were in Washington in the first place.

  • It appeared to have nothing at all to do with the discussion.

    With your comment I reread it and it appeared to have nothing at all to do with the discussion. It summarizes thusly:

    “The video shows a young man wearing a “Make America Great Again” cap standing near to and staring at a man who is drumming as other young men surrounding them jeer and chant. Some of the onlookers appear to wear clothing bearing insignia from Covington Catholic High School in Park Hills.”

    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1086552871674368001

    “Appear”?

    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1086552871674368001

    I would not identify the young man with the drum as indigenous anything.

    It appears as though the marchers believed the drumming was part of a counter-demonstration by an opposition group.

    The local print media reports:

    “The Cincinnati Enquirer could not independently confirm that students from Covington Catholic were present during the incident or the origin of the video.”

    I believe you’re picking nits.

  • No. Liz stated that “the suffering and need of those alive” “means nothing to them [Christians]”. The existence of Christian hospitals, clinics, as well as charitable organizations of all kinds (which you declined to mention) gives the lie to her assertion that Christians care only about the preborn, and not at all about the living. The thousands being warmed and fed by religious charities in our city this subzero weekend also gives the lie to her claim.

    Further, her dehumanizing an entire class of human beings as subhuman (hypothetical humans) gives the lie to her assumed humanitarian “outrage”.

  • Not really. Mine is far more of an honest description. People have had to put up with screaming hysterical fetus worshipers and their intentionally offensive rhetoric far more often than the reverse has ever been.

    Anti-abortion people are not pro life. They are against the born, women especially. There is never an honest argument or even factual assertions coming from in support your view.

    Fetus worship encapsulates the irrational religious nature of the alleged concern for the unborn.

  • “Natural family planning is more effective today, because a woman’s fertile period can be more easily determined. Taking one’s temperature is quite effective.”

    As proven by the soaring unwed birthrates and family sizes where it is the only option available in a given community. Facts speak for themselves and they do not support your position

    “Under the capitalist system which is propped up by socialism”
    Translation: under a democracy where leaders have a mandate to act on behalf of voters.

    Your point there was just incoherent nonsense.

    Attacking Margret Sanger is not an argument against birth control or even Planned Parenthood. Especially when you have to flat out lie about here to make your point.
    https://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2015/oct/05/ben-carson/did-margaret-sanger-believe-african-americans-shou/

    …in 1966 Planned Parenthood gave its Margaret Sanger award to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. The civil rights leader accepted, and sent his wife, Coretta, to accept. The speech he wrote for the occasion stated that “”There is a striking kinship between our movement and Margaret Sanger’s early efforts.”

    Sanger was still alive at that point, and her history and statements were well known (she had published an autobiography in 1938 and was never shy about sharing her opinions). If she had, in fact, been a supporter of eliminating black people, it’s doubtful King would have accepted that award.

    If you had a valid point to make, you would not have lied so readily to support it.

  • You mean your dishonest, insult laden, incoherent jabbering where you pretend there is no physical difference between a fetus and a born person. No need to repeat such gish galloping fictions on your part. We are both familiar with it.

  • I think you’ve stretched this to the breaking point.

    You don’t like Catholics and you don’t like pro-lifers.

    Fair enough.

    The drummer versus pro-lifers is simply off the scale.

  • So, your position is that every cessation of life, every failure in development of any living being, is a direct willed action of the Almighty?

    Question 1:

    If the deity is the Author of life, wouldn’t that be within his purview?

    Question 2:

    Do you know any human abortionists that are deities?

    Question 3:

    If the answer to Question 2 is “no”, could you explain the significance of your comment?

  • “Apparently ‘all the hospitals’ represents a total of 604 hospitals (13% or 18% of hospital beds) which receive 36% public funding and 12 % MedciAid dollars as well as 30% from county appropriations, 30% from investments and 5% from charitable donations. Direct church funding for church run hospitals account for 0.0015% of funding. For profit hospitals generate gross patient revenue from 0.8% of charity cases, religious hospitals from 1.9%, secular non-profits come in at 2% and secular hospitals at 5.1% comes from charitable care.”

    You fail to provide citations for all of the above for good reason.

    “Direct church funding for church run hospitals account for 0.0015% of funding.”

    means that the collections at churches are not being funneled directly to hospitals, nothing more.

    The point, of course, is that these churches built the hospitals,

  • “Mine is far more of an honest description.” followed by “Fetus worship”.

    If your point is that you’re more than a little whacky and proud of it. two thumbs up.

  • We’ve heard this nonsense several thousand times before.

    It is not improving with repetition.

  • You have been unable over the last few years to support:

    “The same Christians who oppose abortion rights are the ones who call for
    cuts to public benefits for children (literally taking food from their
    mouths), attack education, support discrimination, promote child abuse,
    and usually support the death penalty.”

    Your position is Democratic Party Platform worship.

    As to the death penalty, as such point as any Christians support the death penalty for innocent people, do let us know.

  • If there was a sense of reality/honesty here, the label for this so-called anti-abortion gathering would be March for Dominion. I would say, “Unique from Day One: Pro-Life is Pro-Science Pro-Dominion” . . . while making a feeble attempt to exploit science to support their pro-life delusion and/or fraud.

    Rational people should understand that if these marchers and their supporters ever achieved a ban on abortion, it would energize them to seek many more dominionist laws including, to name a few, . . . banning contraception, banning same-sex marriage, returning gay people to the category of criminals, preventing transgender people from being integrated into society, media censorship, elevating the believed authority of the Bible to a level above the Constitution, and forcing public schools to vigorously indoctrinate students with Biblical Superstition (BS).

    Am I worried? Not really. The influence of religion in the U.S. is steadily declining among rational people, and the Internet is contributing greatly to accelerating the decline.

  • How does birth control hurt women? BIrth control PREVENTS abortions. And who is making you to take birth control?

  • You really hate it when someone makes you look like the fool you are, don’t you?

    Again:

    So, your position is that every cessation of life, every failure in development of any living being, is a direct willed action of the Almighty?

    Question 1:

    If the deity is the Author of life, wouldn’t that be within his purview?

    Question 2:

    Do you know any human abortionists that are deities?

    Question 3:

    If the answer to Question 2 is “no”, could you explain the significance of your comment?

    If you can’t answer at all because it is over your pay grade, just say that.

  • Women almost always have a choice in whether or not to become pregnant. Slaves had no choice in whether to become slaves, and unborn children of course have no choice in anything. So I’m afraid it’s your analogy fails.

  • Which, according to those who used the kind of “dehumanization” arguments that Spuddie uses now, was perfectly acceptable because they were not people.

  • Giving your position the very widest and generous interpretation, the only “gestational slaves” would be women who were raped.

    It has been known for two decades or more that – combining incest with rape – that is around 1% of the abortions.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/13/us/rape-and-incest-just-1-of-all-abortions.html

    That means 99% are for other reasons, mostly backup birth control.

    That’s what happens when you substitute slogans for thought processes; you wind saying rather silly things.

  • Sterilization prevents both.

    What does ” And who is making you to take birth control?” add of value to the conversation?

    The answer, of course, is “Who is making you engage in sex?”

  • How about valuing ALL humans by not dehumanizing and killing the smallest and most helpless of them?

  • “Those same hospitals deny medically necessary care to patients if it suits their religious dogma.”

    The reason:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    Stuff like that really rubs your fur the wrong way, doesn’t it?

  • But then HOW would she justify abortion?

    Remember, this is Backup Logic.

    You start with your conclusion and work backwards.

  • I repeat. CONTROL is the essence of Birth Control. This is not good for women. Success under birth control, is not life-giving. Natural Family Planning is life-giving and love-giving. The Man and Woman cooperate with God’s creation and knowledge of their personal responsibilities, using knowledge of biology. The Constitution allows for freedom of religion and speech. There is no mandate to have those who object pay for the control of others. Finally, you are right about Margaret Sanger in that she did not think of herself as racist. But I submit she was a cold-hearted, unfeeling, member of the “intelligentsia,” Who apparently did not care about death of blacks at the hands of racists. So she “justified her decision to speak to a women’s auxiliary of the KKK group by explaining, ‘to me any aroused group is a good group.” Try playing that line on MLK day. See how it goes over. Further, Margaret did not like — Guess WHO? Those “whose religious scruples ‘prevent their exercising control over their
    numbers.’ Sanger concludes, “There is no doubt in the minds of all
    thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped.(both quotes, Wikipedia Margaret Sanger).” She won’t succeed with the Catholics. Which is good, because you love talking to us! You wouldn’t find Margaret to be much fun.

  • Mark Connelly aka Bob Arnzen aka Bob Carioca aka :

    The Right Honorable Custodial-Docent of the Papal Privy

  • Interesting. PA Senator Bob Casey (D) voted for no taxpayer funds for abortion. On the day of the March for Life, he announced he was not running for President. I think this is good news. Perhaps Mr. Casey saw that his constituents are generally pro-life, and the Democratic Leadership are not.

  • Also, Death came into the world because of sin. The Almighty is not some big meanie. Jesus saves! Someday Rachel will no longer cry for her children.

  • You repeat easily disproven nonsense and complete hogwash.

    Natural Family Planning is no family planning at all. At best its use has been for timing the best time to intentionally BECOME pregnant. But it is not prevention. It has a success rate of zero in all places where real birth control is unavailable.

    As for the rest, that is your sectarian religious belief. Nothing I have to take seriously or accept as facts. More proof of my original statement. There are no rational arguments against birth control. It requires irrational religious appeals.

    “There is no mandate to have those who object pay for the control of others. ”
    More fiction and canned speechmaking without a hint of knowledge.

    No employers “pay for birth control”.

    They pay premiums to insurance companies which provide it. Insurance companies are more than happy to provide it at their own cost. For the insurers, providing for birth control is cheaper to them than providing healthcare to children. We have a contraception mandate because it was overwhelmingly popular with the voting public.

    Insurance is not a gift, it is a form of payment for work rendered. You apparently think employment turns people into property. If they don’t like insurance used in such a fashion, scr3w them. Its really none of their business. Employers have no business demanding employees spend earned compensation based on their sectarian beliefs. .

    You are nothing but a stooge being lured into attacking employee rights in favor of corporatist interests.

    “Finally, you are right about Margaret Sanger in that she did not think of herself as racist. ”

    No, l1ar. She wasn’t a racist. MLK would not have praised her if she was. I provided a source to refute your garbage. You provide nothing in response. You have not shown yourself to be particularly accurate in asserting facts. I would leave the historical impression of Sanger to people who aren’t willing to lie in service of their beliefs as you do. Attacking her is not an argument against birth control either. So its a diversion

  • Wikipedia quotes are valid on Margaret Sanger. She went to talk the the KKK women’s auxiliary. Look for it under eugenics and above abortion:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger
    “Cheaper than providing healthcare to children” — ah yes, how they love us….!Thank God the Catholic Employers stand up for the dignity of the human person.
    I repeat, you love talking to Catholics. It’s a cold world out there with the other Margaret Sangers.

  • From your own link

    Sanger worked with African American leaders and professionals who saw a need for birth in their communities. In 1929, James H. Hubert, a black social worker and the leader of New York’s Urban League, asked Sanger to open a clinic in Harlem. Sanger secured funding from the Julius Rosenwald Fund and opened the clinic, staffed with black doctors, in 1930. The clinic was directed by a 15-member advisory board consisting of black doctors, nurses, clergy, journalists, and social workers. The clinic was publicized in the African-American press as well as in black churches, and it received the approval of W. E. B. Du Bois, the co-founder of the NAACP and the editor of its magazine, The Crisis.Sanger did not tolerate bigotry among her staff, nor would she tolerate any refusal to work within interracial projects. Sanger’s work with minorities earned praise from Martin Luther King, Jr., in his 1966 acceptance speech for the Margaret Sanger award.

    From 1939 to 1942 Sanger was an honorary delegate of the Birth Control Federation of America, which included a supervisory role—alongside Mary Lasker and Clarence Gamble—in the Negro Project, an effort to deliver birth control to poor black people.[80] Sanger advised Dr. Gamble on the utility of hiring a black physician for the Negro Project. She also advised him on the importance of reaching out to black ministers, writing:[81]

    The ministers work is also important and also he should be trained, perhaps by the [Birth Control] Federation [of America] as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.

    New York University’s Margaret Sanger Papers Project says that though the letter would have been meant to avoid the mistaken notion that the Negro Project was a racist campaign, detractors of Sanger, such as Angela Davis, have extracted the passage “as evidence she led a calculated effort to reduce the black population against their will

    As for your opinion of insurance companies, I can’t help it if the reality of insurance pooling doesn’t fit in well with Catholic dogma, the religious desire for overpopulation and servitude status of women. But that is what they do. The cost of birth control is cheaper than the costs of birth.

    “I repeat, you love talking to Catholics. It’s a cold world out there with the other Margaret Sangers.”

    Because Catholics like yourself are apparently unmoved by facts and love making crap up.

  • You don’t value ANY humans. Especially the born.

    Your alleged concern for the unborn is really hostility to women making decisions without your input.

  • 1. Where you are getting pasted
    2. A link to a person you lied about
    3. That is your choice. You don’t get to make it for others.

  • Still haven’t dealt with Margaret and the KKK auxiliary? Those “aroused” in the fight against the children of others? No, you love talking to us because we value you enough to talk to you. Every person has value. Margaret didn’t think so..

  • No fool. The medically proscribed method of terminating a healthy 3rd trimester pregnancy goes by the technical term “birth”.

    “Late term” abortions are invariably done by people who were planning to keep their pregnancy, but could not due to medical conditions.

  • Don’t have to. I was quoting the source honestly. You were taking a passing reference and conflating it.

    My blockquote > than your canned and selective misrepresentation COMING FROM THE SAME SOURCE.

    If you have a valid and moral point to make, you would not need to bear false witness so often.

  • So what if it is from the same source? It does not mean anything. It means that PP attempted to use the black community. They are trying to use the Catholics, as well. But they are stopped by the fact that the Catholic Church continues to teach against it. Good Night Spuddie. Here’s a bedtime truism for you: “A person’s a person, no matter how small (Dr. Seuss Horton Hears a Who).”

  • What it means is you are a liar. You didn’t even bother to read the blockquote illustrating the work she did with the black community, her zero tolerance for bigotry and close work with leaders of the community. Your need to lie like a cheap rug is self evident.

    Even Snopes is ridiculing you
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/margaret-sanger-weeds/
    In his 1992 book American Extremists: Militias, Supremacists, Klansmen, Communists & Others, author John George writes that this quote was “evidently concocted in the late 1980s for the purpose of trying to make the early birth control advocate seem a racist and anti-Semite” and that “this fabrication has been kept in circulation by antiabortion and anti-birth control groups.”

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/margaret-sanger-kkk/
    “Sanger expressed no affinity for the KKK.”

    “Sanger once addressed female KKK members in a bid to have her message heard as widely as possible, but she both openly described that meeting and disparaged the group’s mission in her writings”

    Its telling that your position is ultimately an appeal to sectarian belief. Because as I said from the outset, there are no rational (or even sensible) arguments against birth control.

  • Annually 20,000,000 fetuses die from miscarriage.

    God is the most prolific abortionist.

    A warm and loving God.

  • Thank you for providing this pro-Sanger propaganda.

    Also thank you for your last sentence where you drop your drillies and make it clear you’re an anti-Catholic.

  • So, your position is that every cessation of life, every failure in development of any living being, is a direct willed action of the Almighty?

    Question 1:

    If the deity is the Author of life, wouldn’t that be within his purview?

    Question 2:

    Do you know any human abortionists that are deities?

    Question 3:

    If the answer to Question 2 is “no”, could you explain the significance of your comment?

    If you can’t answer at all because it is over your pay grade, just say that.

  • There is not one scintilla of evidence that “‘Late term’ abortions are invariably done by people who were planning to
    keep their pregnancy, but could not due to medical conditions.

    That is why you provide no citation.

  • Funny that you think that reemphasizing your denigration and dehumanization of a whole class of people somehow helps your case.

    Others have also pointed out here how your pro-abortion arguments are simply recycled slaver arguments. And yet you blindly keep reposting that bigotry, dishonestly pretending to be unaware of to your links with them.

    Abortionists are the self-centered deniers of the most basic of human rights. They are the enemies of humanity.

  • Spuddie, the ally of slavers and user of their “logic”, pretends to be a great advocate of humanity!

    LOL.

  • Cheap insults rather then coherent arguments. Projection much?

    What do you call a person whose body is at the command of others. A slave. Chattel property. You demand the government control the bodies of women as if they were property.

    You apparently hate people.

  • You are trying to reduce women to the status of property by force. Dehumanization is the goal of your position.

    I advocate they people are capable of making their own choices about what goes on in their bodies. Without government interference.

    Your alleged concern for the unborn is a sham. Self aggrandizement garbage which is in actuality contempt for women. That they dare make decisions they are entitled to make about their bodies that you don’t approve of. As if they were your property. Nothing but dehumanizing from you. Your position is immoral dishonest nonsense.

  • Gee, black slave women were raped and forced to bear children. That’s what you want to do with women right now.

  • DWhat’s bugging you, on this eve of MLK day, is that the KKK and the feminists both target the same groups: Blacks, Catholics and Jews. It was awfully nice of Sanger to groom the minorities to become even smaller minorities! That is what PP has in store for our immigrants from South of the Border. But the Catholics may surprise them, yet.

  • Why should people who want to have nothing to do with it, have to have something to do with it?

  • Actually, I did read the block quote, and toyed with the idea of responding about Dr. Martin Luther King’s niece, and her view on his Letter from Birmingham Jail, where he mentioned infanticide being brought to an end by Christianity. But Margaret S. always raises my hackles, so I abstained til now, when I have a bit more time. I wonder if you can see the application to 3rd trimester pregnancies, which we have also discussed here? But by all means stick with trying to make Margaret S. a heroine, if you wish to waste your time there. Also Dr. Seuss told the truth, it was just applied in an unexpected way )to him). He knows that now. When his books go out of copyright, no doubt the quote will continue to be used, in the pro-life cause, without fear of his heirs suing. The Truth lasts forever.

  • I would say from your response that a healthy 3rd trimester pregnancy is your speech for a healthy child in the third trimester of the mother’s pregnancy. Right?

  • I see where you are going here. My prior statement was clear enough.

    I have yet to see fetus worshipers honestly describe the conditions which prompt “late term abortions”. Abortions which are always done for purely medical reasons by mothers who were clearly intending to bring the pregnancy to term.

  • “with the idea of responding about Dr. Martin Luther King’s niece,”

    Oh you mean Alveda King. She’s scum. Someone with no credentials to speak on a given subject other than her distant blood relationship to MLK. MLK’s immediate family despise the woman for good reason. Alveda King has been attacking the legacy of her famous uncle for quite some time. She is used by conservatives as a talisman to ward off well justified accusations of racism. Her opinion is absolutely worthless.

    You have this need to misrepresent Ms. Sanger and rely on a well worn fictional narrative about her, her actions and organization. None of which is remotely a reasonable or sane argument for your opposition to birth control and abortion rights. At best it is a ham handed guilt by association argument requiring you to lie like a cheap rug.

    If you had a moral position to speak of, you would not rely on so much misrepresentation to support it.

  • You made an argument you could not support honestly. Now you are annoyed it is completely scorched.

    Its funny how you have to rely on a fictional narrative to support a position which is supposed to be godly and moral. Including nonsense guilt by association appeals.

    How good of you to support overpopulation, poverty and subservient status of women. It really does wonders to undermine any pretense that you are making a rational argument.

  • The “young man” with a drum you deem to speak of so condescendingly, is in fact, Nathan Philips, an Omaha tribal elder. He’s a Vietnam Veteran and former director of the Native Youth Alliance. Phillips is “keeper of a sacred pipe and holds an annual ceremony honoring Native American veterans in the Arlington National Cemetery,” it was reported. Nathan describes himself as an amazing dancer, Singer, an advocate of Native Americans and a father.

    Nathan Phillips was performing a ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery for Native American Vietnam veterans who lost their lives in Southeast Asia in the 1960s and 1970s.

    It is disgusting how disrespectful you are. A cowardly keyboard warrior who has done nothing for society.

  • You are, of course, a right wing self victimized white male who lives in his momma;s basement and is in the closet so deep that he doesn’t know why he is so angry all of the time at women.

  • “honest” citizen? wtf does that even mean? I would be terrified of this band of so called “honest” citizens being armed. Probably all pale pasty and fat. I can see it.

  • The false narrative does not get any better with repetition:

    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/religionnews/catholic_school_apologizes_after_clip_emerges_of_students_mocking_native_americans/#comment-4298267311

    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/religionnews/catholic_school_apologizes_after_clip_emerges_of_students_mocking_native_americans/#comment-4298568293

    It ranks right up there with Buzzfeed’s discredited account, discredited by the Mueller team no less.

    You folks will simply buy anything.

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gullible

    gullible – adjective

    Easily persuaded to believe something; credulous.

  • The only thing you can see is what you want to believe.

    I am sure the words “honest” and “citizen” are both mysteries to you.

  • Oh veracity impaired Shawnie has to make up arguments for other people when she doesn’t like to address them. No wonder she only hangs out with the trolls.

  • Dehumanization is your argument in toto.

    And you are a troll. As are all atheist malcontents who loiter on religion sites for hours every day grousing about how much they don’t care about religion..

  • Sure it is. After all I want the government to control the ability of women to make decisions about their bodies. Oh wait no, that is you. Never mind

  • I certainly want the government to control the ability of ANYONE, including women, to make decisions about OTHER people’s bodies. In fact, we had to fight a civil war over that because some insisted, as you do, that those other bodies did not belong to real people.

  • Let’s correct your comment:

    “After all I want the government to control the ability of women to make decisions about the living bodies they’re carrying inside them.”

    Now carry on.

  • 1.Ross continued, conceding that abortion is indeed the

    leading cause of death for black Americans — “if … one considers an abortion to be a death.”

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-post-keen-to-dismiss-ben-carsons-remarks-on-margaret-sanger/

    Today’s the day. Kamala Harris will possibly announce her candidacy. I wonder if she attended either of these two marches?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/opinion/womens-march-antisemitism.html

    http://time.com/4981357/bernie-sanders-womens-march-convention/

    And finally, watch the one with the cigarettes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4pwJas4En0

    You’ve come a long way, baby! (Philip Morris ad for VirginiaSlims) But the same old arguments are being used from the Margaret Sanger canon. Society has changed completely, as to what is acceptible. But truth stands. I feel sorry for the poor old women, here. No more hard names for the hurt she caused. She obviously was traumatized in her youth.

    Remember! “History belongs to the victors, legends to the people, fantasy to literature.Only death is certain.”

    The women’s movement has declared victory a little too soon, and advanced their skewed history as fact.

    Christus Vincit

  • CONTINUING to MAGA! TRUMP PENCE 2020! ALL DECENT Americans stand with GOD, MARCH FOR LIFE and ending abortion.

  • Vlad: Hey DonnieBoy this “Mark Connelly” he doing good work for my Research Agency now. He follow your example how to tell many lies good!!

    Donald TRump: Pootie Baby my love, they won’t let me build wall and now I’m so SCARED. I shut down government but now everyone blame me for what I do. So UNFAIR to get responsibility for my own actions. It’s TERRIBLE. Now it’s getting really HOT over here on me with Mueller going to impeach my ass too. I need trip to Moscow and be safe there. You help me please please?

    Vlad: Good job with shut down democracy government DonnieBoy. You learn teaching from Russia school good. No problem for come to Moscow. We make apartment below my penthouse for you and big babushkas keep you warm and your small hands busy yes and Mark Connelly service you on knees as usual. I handle Melanoma divorce for you and no problem Russia-style with my big bare chest on hers. Soon we break America and build great Russiamerica together, then soon break EU. We start with Brexit ha hardly need help and take over Europe next.

  • Vlad: Hey DonnieBoy this “Mark Connelly” he doing good work for my Research Agency now, yes. He follow your example how to tell many lies good.

    Donald TRump: Pootie Baby my love, they won’t let me build wall and now I’m so SCARED. I shut down government but now everyone blame me for what I do. So UNFAIR to get responsibility for my own actions. It’s TERRIBLE. Now it’s getting really HOT over here on me with Mueller going to impeach my ass too. I need trip to Moscow and be safe there. You help me please please?

    Vlad: Good job with shut down democracy government DonnieBoy. You learn teaching from Russia school good. No problem for come to Moscow. We make apartment below my penthouse for you and big babushkas keep you warm and your small hands busy yes and Mark Connelly service you on knees as usual. I handle Melanoma divorce for you and no problem Russia-style with my big bare chest on hers. Soon we break America and build great Russiamerica together, then soon break EU. We start with Brexit ha hardly need help and take over Europe next.

  • Vlad: Hey DonnieBoy this “Mark Connelly” he doing good work for my Research Agency now. He follow your example how to tell many lies good. He wipe backside of you too yes.

    Donald TRump: Pootie Baby my love, they won’t let me build wall and now I’m so SCARED. I shut down government but now everyone blame me for what I do. So UNFAIR to get responsibility for my own actions. It’s TERRIBLE. Now it’s getting really HOT over here on me with Mueller going to impeach my ass too. I need trip to Moscow and be safe there. You help me please please?

    Vlad: Good job with shut down democracy government DonnieBoy. You learn teaching from Russia school good. No problem for come to Moscow. We make apartment below my penthouse for you and big babushkas keep you warm and your small hands busy yes and Mark Connelly service you on knees as usual. I handle Melanoma divorce for you and no problem Russia-style with my big bare chest on hers. Soon we break America and build great Russiamerica together, then soon break EU. We start with Brexit ha hardly need help and take over Europe next.

  • That’s nice. But it is for them to deal with. Not you. Not ever.

    It does not forward an argument that there should be no choice in the matter or that you have any say in the matter.

    Moreover in your zeal to interject yourself into such matters you vote to attack your economic interest.

  • Gosh galloping and wingnut statements. You lack a coherent point here.
    1. Wingnut hyperbole cannot be taken at face value

    2. Your point was???

    3. YouTube is not proof to support arguments. Unless it is a cat video or amusing sports injury, I am not going to bother with it

    You clearly have problems with the notion of women having an equal part in society as well. It’s amazing how easily your arguments degenerate into malicious s1ut shaming.

    As for the last part, reactionaries are always the last to pick up on things.

  • Spuddie, they are looking for you to make an apology on the Article about the Video of the student at the Pro-Life march. I told them that you weren’t really responsible for fake news. But you need to stop peddling fake history.

  • Tough luck.

    You are straying from your point and are now delivering incoherent ranting and declarations. You have no facts or rational arguments to present. You have ceased an relevance to the discussion.

    You continue to lie like a cheap rug. Those MAGA chuds were harassing a man interceding between two hostile groups. I linked to the full story from real sources on the article discussing it here. I don’t feel like repeating myself verbatim.

  • No. I said what I meant to say. If you can’t understand that or feel the need to deliberately misrepresent it, I am not going to help you here.

    Fetus worshipers love lying and making up stuff to suit their narrative.

  • And that is what makes you a slaver. See, admission is good for the soul.

    Under all that snark lies a dyed in the wool theocrat / fascist. Someone who hates civil liberties and wants authoritarian control over people.

    Doesn’t it feel good to get that off your chest?

  • Nope.Children are born.

    Late term abortions are done on pregnancies which can’t be brought to term alive or are already dead in the womb.

    That was stupid. I am glad you didn’t bother to elaborate on that until now. It was a waste of time and a demonstration of your profound ignorance.

  • You’re right. How stupid of me. Just a myth. Not believable, like virgin births, water into wine, or resurrecting the dead.

  • Of course you did. The bodies of the unborn are not people’s bodies. It’s the heart of your argument, Mrs. Legree. 🙂

  • Indeed! You might want to find a copy of The Great Kibosh of All Religions or my updated copy of the Apostles’ Creed!

  • to call others gullible as you support trump is ludicrous . trump is the ultimate feather weight con artist .

  • mark, the contention that “they disagree with YOU,” is your normal stance . understanding another commenter is not often found in your posts . only polemic against what you disagree with .

  • phillips is not a vietnam veteran ? he was not there after a being at a ceremony at arlinton national cemetery ?

    you, mark, seem willing to say anything .

  • Paranoid Mark/Bob probably thinks that the 2/3 of voters in predominantly Catholic Ireland who voted pro-choice last May are “anti-Catholic.”

  • To save you some time:

    Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

    Added details available upon written request.

    A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    “The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother’s womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. “

  • It’s not A March for Life, it’s a March for Fetus Life. Other life excluded, including the chikldren caged and abused by their hero Trump and poor children in general. This {ro=Fetus group is beloved of toxic males because it’s part of keeping women in their place.

  • Having read many of your posts, I’ll just decline getting sucked into another of your dog fights.

  • Once again:

    Been there, done that on many a cold January day. Now my only recommendation is that the name be changed to March for Responsible Adults Using Effective Contraception! Why?

    The failures of the widely used birth “control” methods i.e. the pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions and STDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the pill or condoms properly and/or use other more effective methods (e.g. an IUD) in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and STDs. Doing so would reduce the consideration of an abortion by 90% basically making the abortion issue and the March for Life moot.

  • The bodies of women are not people’s bodies to you. You demand control of them as your property.

    A fetus is not a person. Never will be. People are born. Flinging poo and name calling does not change that. All it shows me is that you are just a nasty useless hysteric. You can pretend they are the same as slaves. Slaves were born too.

    Your position is just a fiction. Like pretending a woman, a person’s body is not part of the discussion. You don’t “protect the unborn” you just attack women.

    Why do you ever bring up that the unborn are attached to people?
    Why is mammalian reproduction such a hard concept for you to acknowledge?
    WHy do you want to make slaves of people?

  • Your definition of people as “born” is as meaningless as the slavers’ definition of people as “free” and “white.” You’ve already stated your dehumanization thesis, Mrs. Legree. Multiple times. It gathers no luster from repetition.

    Don’t you have some children to libel?

  • You are flinging poo in lieu of an argument. Born has only one definition. One which you have to ignore for your silly line of insult.

    You have control issues with others. You don’t respect ANY human beings. You have no concern for the “unborn”. It is why you have this silly position where a fetus is considered a person with rights, but the mother, who keeps it in existence, is property of the state.

    Sorry Lying Shawnie, but human beings have value beyond their gestational period.

  • “Born has only one definition.” So did “free” and “white,” Mrs. Legree.

    And human beings have value beyond whether others want them alive or not.

    I’m bored with you, Tater. Your screeds have all the variation and sparkle of a buzzing refrigerator. So “buzz” off.

  • “You are flinging poo in lieu of an argument.”

    You would be the expert on that.

    “Born has only one
    definition. One which you have to ignore for your silly line of insult.”

    Life has only one definition, one which you have to ignore to construct your sorry “argument”.

  • The bodies of prenatal life are not humans’ bodies to you. You demand control of them as mere property.

  • How can I even pretend you have concern for the unborn when you have such hostility to everyone else?

    It’s funny how “compassionate” fetus worshipers pretend to be about human beings yet are usually the most hateful and callous people out there.

    All human beings have value to you in gestation, maybe, but not really . Once born, you actively attack them. In your view a pregnant woman has no value as a person and is merely chattel property if the state.

    If your alleged concern for the value of life is only the unborn, it is useless garbage. Of no use to any society. Especially since that for concern is really just thinly veiled contempt for mothers and their lives.

  • I have a problem with tribalism. I have a problem with mixing theology and politics – particularly when the Archdiocese of Washington declared participation a plenary indulgence. I have a problem with the term pro-life and long for the honesty of the more correct term anti-abortion. I support Pope Francis’ notion of a seamless pro-life position – not a single issue.

  • I am a member of our church’s social justice and outreach committee. I know what our local churches do and what other organizations do. I also know what churches also do nothing in terms of serving the community. but would happily march at such a rally. (But their congregations also charitably give/tithe to the church) So I am reluctant to be universal as to what Christians collectively do and so I find it a weak argument. And I thought Liz was pretty spot on in her use of hypothetical humans in terms of the frequent criticism being pro-birth, not pro-life.

  • You have a number of problems.

    There can be no conditioning of opposition to abortion on ANYTHING else.

    Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    “2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person – among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.”

  • Vlad: hey Donnie you got this dog runt Mark Connelly doing great work for my Research Agency but back in Siberia you need train him not eat so much yellow snow yes.

    Donald TRump: Pootie baby I’m so scared. Big mean Pelosi is terrifying me and I had to cave big time on shutdown. And now strong Mueller got Roger Stoner locked up too and maybe I’m coming into orange jumpsuit next and never get wall named after me. What I do? This is too much for my ego. Can I come to Moscow and hide under your penthouse?

  • if you go back and look at this thread you will find that no one has made any contribution to civil discourse . it has been the digital equivalent to trash talking on the basketball court .

    and mark connelly sees himself as one of the better trash talkers . strange as that is .

  • “…arguments are simply recycled slaver arguments.”

    people who were pro-slavery believed that born, living breathing people should control what they did with their own bodies and lives ?

    you might want to revise that argument of yours .

  • no . just a worshiper of the god of abraham and of jesus who called for care for the stranger and those at risk .

    today many of those are legally referred to as immigrants .

  • Slavers denied the basic humanity of those humans they enslaved.

    Just like abortionists deny the basic humanity of our children in the womb, using similar arguments.

    Slavers and abortionists: deniers of the most basic human rights.

    If the shoe fits, pal, wear it.

  • you are playing games with words .

    “children in the womb” . the child in the womb is in the expectations and desires of the parents for children, for family . that wish does not change the reality that god made; that before there is a child their is a zygote, an embryo, and a fetus : nine months of creation that god shares with the parents .

    at birth come the living, breathing creature created that we call a child .

    your shoe fits rhetoric is rather wasted in serious discussion .

  • You are the one playing games with words, death dealing games, using “zygote” “embryo”, and “fetus” in a way that denies the fact that these are all stages of HUMAN life, just like “child”, “adolescent”, “adult”,and “senior” are likewise stages of human life.

    Your games with words result in the deaths of millions of humans.

  • The use of the term “hypothetical humans” is inherently dehumanizing to an entire category of human beings.

    If you are ok with dehumanizing groups of people, all I can say is that I am not.

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