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Pelosi, DeVos address Christian educators on policy and faith

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi addresses the Presidents Conference of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities on Jan. 30, 2019, at Dirksen Senate Office Building in Washington. RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks

WASHINGTON (RNS) — Hours before post-shutdown conversations began on immigration and border security on Capitol Hill, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told a group of Christian educators gathering in the nation’s capital this week that she intends to uphold her responsibility to “act upon our beliefs in the dignity and worth of every person.”

Those people include refugees seeking to cross our borders, Pelosi told the Presidents Conference of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities on Wednesday (Jan. 30).

“We’re hoping that we can find common ground as soon as possible so that we can not only meet the responsibility to protect our border and treat people coming here with dignity and respect but also to keep government open,” she said.

The opening session of the three-day CCCU conference, held at the Dirksen Senate Office Building, also featured a talk with Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos. Both spoke of their faith as an integral part of their work as government leaders.

Pelosi said she hopes decision-makers on both sides of the debate over the wall at the Southern border can agree on funding for key needs in Latin America as well as the U.S.: food and medical care for people crossing the border, assistance for the countries from which they are fleeing and additional federal judges to adjudicate their cases.

Galen Carey, right, vice president of government relations of the National Association of Evangelicals, prays for Nancy Pelosi, center, after she made remarks, with Shirley V. Hoogstra, left, president of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, on Jan. 30, 2019, at Dirksen Senate Office Building in Washington. RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks

“One of the things that we have to convey to the administration is that these people do have a right under international law and any sense of decency to seek refuge in our country,” she said of those wanting to enter the U.S. “This administration is really a departure from the bipartisanship that has always existed, the recognition of who we are — by and large, a nation of immigrants, unless we are blessed to have been born into a Native American family.”

She added that while the U.S. should investigate refugees’ claims of persecution, “it isn’t against the law for them to come into America to have that test made.”

Pelosi noted that she had long worked with evangelicals on comprehensive immigration reform.

“The evangelical community has been in the lead on this for a long, long time,” she said.

She cited National Association of Evangelicals Vice President Galen Carey’s speaking before House members  in 2017 and calling the country’s refugee resettlement program “the crown jewel of American humanitarianism.”

Pelosi opened and closed her remarks with words about faith, referring first to Paul’s teaching on faith, hope and charity in his First Letter to the Corinthians, and concluding with a mention of her belief in Jesus.

“Christ is our savior,” said Pelosi, a Roman Catholic. “And his example is such a blessing to the world.”

DeVos, speaking just before Pelosi, answered questions from CCCU President Shirley V. Hoogstra about DeVos’ proposed reforms to the accreditation process, possible new rules about addressing sexual assault on campuses and how the secretary’s faith plays a role in her leadership.

Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos answers questions posed by Shirley V. Hoogstra, president of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, on Jan. 30, 2019, at the Dirksen Senate Office Building in Washington. RNS photo by Adelle M. Banks

DeVos spoke on the last day her department is receiving comments on proposed new rules about Title IX, the section of federal law that bans schools that get federal funds from discriminating on the basis of sex. She said she had been involved in  separate listening sessions featuring assault victims, accused perpetrators and academics.

“The fundamental focus, from my perspective, is ensuring that we are being fair and balanced for all students,” DeVos said. “One sexual assault is one too many and we need to move to a place where we are educating and assuring that those horrible situations don’t occur. But when they do, we need to have a process and a framework that is fair for everyone and that the results can be counted upon by everyone involved.”

Some have criticized the proposed rules, saying they could lead victims of sexual assault to not come forward.

Asked by Hoogstra how she deals in general with criticism and praise for her efforts to change education policy, DeVos spoke of her parents’ entrepreneurial spirit, her Christian education and her faith in God.

“There’s an audience that I play to and it’s just an audience of one,” she responded, speaking from a wheelchair after breaking her pelvis and a hip socket in a December bicycling accident.

DeVos, who was raised in the Christian Reformed Church in North America and has been a member and elder at Mars Hill Bible Church in Grandville, Mich., said faith infuses her life.

“That’s where I live from,” she said. “There is nothing I do that my faith perspective doesn’t inform in some way.”

About the author

Adelle M. Banks

Adelle M. Banks, production editor and a national reporter, joined RNS in 1995. An award-winning journalist, she previously was the religion reporter at the Orlando Sentinel and a reporter at The Providence Journal and newspapers in the upstate New York communities of Syracuse and Binghamton.

130 Comments

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  • Pelosi told a group of Christian educators gathering in the nation’s capital this week that she intends to uphold her responsibility to “act upon our beliefs in the dignity and worth of every person.”

    “……except the unborn”.

    She is no Catholic.

  • One has to be born to be a person.

    Sane people show concern for life after gestation.

    Betsy DeVos is a kleptocrat who has no business in the Dept of Education. Chosen to destroy the system she runs

    People chose Nancy Pelosi to represent their interests.

  • Nope.
    I don’t want to hear about the rights of any living “group” until the rights of the innocent are protected.
    We’re worried about two gay guys buying a cake but we can kill a person up until the moment of birth.
    Nope.
    The left has lost the little moral authority it had.

  • You don’t like life at all. Especially people. It’s not about concern but control. Immoral indifference at its plainest.

    Life is only precious to you if “innocent”. Everyone is dirty and can all be killed off for all you care.

    Sorry buddy but you don’t protect life by turning people into property.

    There are no persons until after the moment of birth.

    Fetus worshipers are immoral and delusional.

  • Being a “person” is irrelevant.

    A “person” is a legal definition, squishy at best. At one time blacks and Indians weren’t “persons”.

    Now, “human life” is a scientific term and it has a clear definition.

    The unborn are human lives.

    Your last sentence appears to say that conscience and morality is irrelevant, a politician is a political hooker.

    The nation still awaits Nancy’s explanation of how a wall, in of itself, can be “immoral”.

  • You don’t like unborn life at all

    You want to turn unborn human life into the equivalent of house pests.

    The use of the term “fetus worshipers” brands you as a non-thinking sloganeer with the morality of Jack the Ripper.

  • People are asking Dolan to take Cuomo to task. We shall see.
    Nothing celebrates death like lighting up the freedom tower.
    NYC should be ashamed of itself.

  • Cardinal Dolan has become on of those prelates for whom the Good News became the Good Living.

    https://www{DOT}americanthinker.com/articles/2019/01/catholic_church_leaders_are_a_bunch_of_cowards.html

    Other offenders were Cardinal Mahony of LA, Cardinal McCarrick of DC (who was soft on sin for obvious reasons), and Archbishop Weakland of Milwaukee who finally left when his $450k payoff to a boyfriend was discovered.

  • Yup. Those that value people, the born are the most moral of nations and people.

    Those who engage in fetus worship are generally immoral and treat its citizens as property of the state.

    There is a compelling reason the overwhelming majority of Americans oppose fetus worship.

  • I know – but he has been battling cuomo in the press as of late regarding this issue as well as the abuse scandal.

  • You can no longer use the term fetus worship as an excuse. As the state of NY has shown and VA to follow suit; the state will allow the murder of human beings up to the point of birth.
    Sad.

  • Nope. Fetus worship is the most apt description of your position. Its about pretending a fetus is the most important thing ever and ignoring the rest of the world. Its not only immoral, but just plain stupid.

    It has nothing to do with valuing life, or showing concern. It is all about acting like a horse’s rear end and engaging in narcissistic moralizing garbage while trying to treat people as property.

    Its all about making hysterical statements and calling people murderers. Immature whining.

  • He should give up on Cuomo and let his flock know Cuomo ceased being Catholic.

    That’s his job, not running a debating society or getting invited to all the best dinners.

  • Yep. The innocent fetus is more important than those that choose to murder it.
    Those that choose to do it are less than property.

  • Anyone who has no regards for a mother doesn’t care for a fetus either. Face it you hate people and love acting like the posterior of a farm animal.

  • No, no one on the pro-life side is “pretending”.

    The pro-life side supports human life, which science defines.

    A fetus is a human life.

    The hysterical comments come from the birth worshippers:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNgwsT295G8

    and their religious belief in the Magical Birth Canal.

    It has the scientific and moral standing of spontaneous generation and the Final Solution.

  • What “people”? You just wanna glom onto Pelosi because (in addition to other Alt-Left mess), Pelosi is totally guaranteed to promote the de-facto repeal of constitutional religious freedom for Christians and other religionists (even into your fellow atheists.)
    Mm-hmm!

    So it’s time for the Confessional, Spuds. You fess up that the above paragraph is true, right NOW!!

  • People are those born. Those human beings you have little regard for. If you have no regard the people. What makes anyone think you care about the unborn or any human beings?

    Religious freedom is also a concept you have no regard for. Sorry buddy but it never entailed a privilege to harm people for your faith.

  • “But MY definition of a person is the only SANE one! Waaah!”

    Which means, convenient and beneficial for ME.

    LOL! At least 170 year-old excuse-making.

  • “People are those born.”

    Oopsie for you. You used “people” instead of “person”.

    “People” are human lives.

    A mammalian life begins at conception and ends at death.

    All you’ve demonstrated is (a) your use of the English language involves making up your own definitions; and (b) you hold certain human lives in very low regard.

  • Mark/Bob’s interest is in having government impose his narrow theology on all women. He has no respect for the health, rights of conscience and religious liberty of all women.

  • Parker seems unaware that worldwide there are over 50 million abortions per year, thanks in part to conservative religious leaders’ influence over politicians. Parker also seems unaware that about half of all pregnancies abort spontaneously, which raised questions about the benevolence and omnipotence of “God.”

  • The pseudonymous Mark/Bob wants only to have his theology imposed on all women by government. He despises women’e rights of conscience and religious liberty, and disdains our constitutional heritage of religious liberty through church-state separation.

  • Most Catholics agree with Cuomo. Look at the Irish referendum last May in which 2/3 of the voters in that predominantly Catholic country ignored official,church teaching and voted pro-choice.

  • Edd Doerr wants to value some human lives over others, hiding his agenda behind the mantra “respect for the health, rights of conscience and religious liberty of all women”.

    Obviously this respect does not extend to women who have not yet been born.

  • If Cuomo was coming at you with a knife, you’d be whistling a different tune.

    Taken at its face we should close all the prisons and dismiss all the police forces.

    You get an “A” in sloganeering and an “F” in logical thinking.

  • Yes, you’ve made this point before. They are Catholics in name only; as they don’t adhere to the teachings of the church. They themselves admit that they retain the name only because they are afraid to call themselves athiest or none.
    They are nothing more than cowards who have denied the church and more importantly, Christ.
    Your comment is weak and intellectually lazy; I would expect more from someone who claims to have written for Catholic publications.
    You, Spuddie and the left are now embracing a culture of death; pridefully, I might add. To have government officials state that a human life can be ended up until the point of birth; and with some proposed legislation, in the moments after birth – is nothing short of murder.
    I pity those legislators (or women who celebrate death of the unborn) who’s souls have been corrupted by evil on earth.

  • The vast majority of what Edd is calling “Catholics” aren’t.

    Edd is a believer in jumping off the bridge if someone else jumps off.

  • Every life, according to Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is a direct creation of the Creator.

    If you happen to run across an abortionist who creates life, and therefore owns it, you’ll be cooking with gas.

    As it is you appear to simply have gas.

    The fact that people die is one of the reasons, btw, that you’re not up to armpits in people 100 to hundreds of thousands of years old.

  • Who’s judging? Are there not multiple states run by Democrats that are passing laws to allow abortion after birth?
    As far as what the American people or the world goes – Christ said that believers would stand alone. Believers understand that they stand against the selfishness of the world. Blessed are they who are persecuted because of righteousness…

  • Ask him.

    You purport to be church-going sort of individual.

    While you’re at ask him about disease, death, earthquakes, and tsunamis.

  • Sin. You know that.
    Again, you claimed to have written for Catholic periodicals; why would you ask such a stupid and rudimentary question?

  • There are no such state laws. An Christian believers are all over the map n the issues discussed here. They are not all in lockstep with you and Falwell Jr

  • No, Edd has not “written for Catholic periodicals”.

    Edd has written “to” Catholic periodicals and had his letters published.

    He’s an ornament of the Letters to the Editor in the DC area periodicals as well.

  • If women used their conscience, they would not murder a baby. You think it is your constitutional “heritage” to murder babies?

  • There are no laws?!
    NY just passed a law allowing abortion up to the point of birth.
    VA and now VT are considering laws allowing termination of the baby DURING birth and AFTER birth.

    This is who you are edd?

  • edddoerr Mark Connelly • an hour ago
    The vast majority of Americans — and Catholics — agree with me and would regard Mark/Bob as goofy.

    And folks, we have another psychic on the RNS! The site breeds them, it seems. People who know what everyone else thinks – probably by watching television, yet, they know all, ALL I tell you!
    Tell us edd, what are the lottery numbers for this month coming?

  • Yes and I don’t even have to be psychic to tell you that a “fetus” is a baby.
    You didn’t answer my question

  • AFTER birth?

    That’s the spirit Edd; it’s okay as long as it’s rare…
    Until, we find out we don’t like the sex…
    Or, determine that the baby has a finger missing….
    Or, is carrying a trait that causes cancer…
    OR, gasp; has a gender disorder…

  • Many fertilized eggs don’t implant in the womb and are expelled. Proving that more is needed to create a new life than simply conception. Many eggs that implant in the womb are also spontaneously aborted. Proving that more in needed to create a new life than simple implantation in the womb.

    I suggest you educate yourself about the various stages of development. Especially pay attention to when brain function kicks in AND to viability outside the womb.

  • “Many fertilized eggs don’t implant in the womb and are expelled” That doesn’t mean they are dead at that point and the life is in them.
    I suggest you educate yourself on basic biology

  • Is that life human? Or is it a cell like the cells we slough off every day? Everytime you cut yourself, shed a little blood there is life in that blood. Have you ever had surgery and had a part of you removed, appendix, gall bladder, you are shedding living cells. Are those cells human? Or they simply human cells, NOT a human life? Educate yourself. Your comments are foolish.

  • “Is that life human? ” I promise you, it won’t turn into a puppy — most women, if not all, bear humans.
    Cells grow, so I would say they were alive.
    Get your biology books out Susan

  • Such blatant stupidity that prayer of any sort does any good!!! And such a waste of time and money on these meetings and speeches!!! Christ is no savior, never was and never will be. Time to stop spending college time talking about him and time to get to the nitty-gritty of the conduct of the human species without theological and dogma anchors with people like Pelosi and DeVos giving them credence. .

    Regarding abortion, practice safe sex and the issue would disappear. Strange, that no one ever mentions that!!!!

  • A fetus is not like the cells we slough off every day.

    Educate yourself, your comments are foolish.

  • “Many fertilized eggs don’t implant in the womb and are expelled.”

    Many elderly people fall over dead every day. Does that mean they weren’t human?

    “Proving that more is needed to create a new life than simply conception.”

    Actually what it proved is that death is part of life.

    “Many eggs that implant in the womb are also spontaneously aborted. Proving that more in needed to create a new life than simple implantation in the womb.”

    What you’ve proven is that death is part of life. Life is tough.

    I suggest you educate yourself about just how life is defined by science.

    Especially try to count the number of brains, arms, legs, and hearts in one human life.

  • An embryo is not a ‘human being’/child until viable!
    A fetus is not a ‘human being’/child until viable!

    Until viable – it is only the woman’s choice as to whether she wants an abortion

    and it is none of your business!

    Btw- there are no gods….

  • Well, what else are you going to build your world upon after you reject a transcendent source of morality — except what the majority thinks?

    Which is why the lefties are obsessed with opinion polls.

  • Millionaire dilettantes’ “education reform” have failed, but teacher-driven, evidence-supported education works miracles
    https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/millionaire-driven-education-reform-has-failed-heres-what-works

    “Critics like Gordon Lafer are now warning that if antidemocratic forces and deep-pocketed elites continue to set the agenda for what children should learn, American schools will turn into places where inequality is not only exacerbated, but actually inculcated — something quite different from what most of us grew up understanding as their purpose. Instead of being prepared for lives as healthy and productive citizens, most will be groomed for a life of lowered expetations and servitude.”

  • Do men spill sperm on the ground? Sperm are living cells. No women expeleggs when they menstruate? Eggs are living cells. It takes more to turn living cells into a living human being. I suggest you study bioloby. Your ignorance is inexcusable.

  • Professor JD Crossan notes from his book, Who is Jesus)

    “Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us.”

  • Does not stop abortion from being murder.
    Come up with all the excuses you want Susan, abortion is the murder of a living life,

  • Gallup finds that 60 percent of Americans believe abortion generally should be legal during the first three months of pregnancy, known as the first trimester. That support drops by more than half, to 28 percent, once a pregnancy reaches the second trimester; it falls to 13 percent in the third trimester, at which point the fetus is often viable with medical support. https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619200865/americans-support-for-abortion-rights-wanes-as-pregnancy-progresses

    Americans opinions are most closely divided on morality of abortion — 43% believe it is morally acceptable and 48% believe it is not. https://news.gallup.com/poll/235250/say-consuming-alcohol-marijuana-morally.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9

  • Regarding abortion, practice safe sex and the issue would disappear.

    How do you figure that? Are contraceptives 100% effective? If they’re not, couldn’t unwanted pregnancies result even when couples use them?

    And how does the above solution work for victims of rape or incest?

  • It’s immoral to accuse someone of murder when they aren’t. You are a dispicable character–one of Clintons “Basket of Deplorables”!

  • Some statistics-

    FIRST-YEAR CONTRACEPTIVE FAILURE RATES – Guttmacher Institute

    Percentage of women experiencing an unintended pregnancy (a few examples)

    Method……………..Typical

    Pill (combined)……… 8.7 (failures due to women forgetting to take the Pill daily)
    Tubal sterilization ……0.5
    Male condom ……….17.4 (failures due to men not using a condom when they have one in their pocket and a major reason for the record number of STD cases)
    Vasectomy…………… 0.15
    Implant…………………1.0
    IUD ……….0.2-0.8
    (Masturbation mono or dual)………. 0

    guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_cont…

    And if you run the numbers from Guttmacher’s statistics (e.g.# of sexually active women on the Pill, etc), there are over one million unplanned pregnancies/year due to the failure to take the Pill daily and another over one million unplanned pregnancies/yr due to the failure to wear a condom.

    Now if women would stop playing “abortion roulette” with the Pill and switch to an IUD with a 0.2 % failure rate and men would in all cases use a condom (2% failure rate), abortions considerations via contraceptives would be by 0.2 X 2= 0.4% (or 4000 – 8000 abortion considerations per year assuming the current failure rate at a 1-2 million/year ) Now that I believe is something, most citizens would consider to be a minor issue.

    Rape and incest issues? With the morning after pill, probably a minor issue. Very stiff penalties for both would help reduce incidents of each.

  • Skin cells can be used to clone an animal, the same process and material would be the same for a human.

  • Thank you for pointing that out. Parker’s answer is inadequate and simplistic for many people. And the rate has been deemed higher than that depending on the source. Legally in the states a miscarriage is under 20 weeks of gestation, at 20 weeks then is referred to as a stillbirth legally (about 26,000 annually with 25% deemed potentially preventable) while the medical definition is 24 weeks. Estimated number of miscarriages is a million annually per year. But the frequency is an issue that is troubling for many women who try to reconcile that from within their faith /belief perspective. – particularly when the number exceeds that of abortions.

    There also has been a shift in women’s descriptions of a miscarriage over time with more describing it as the loss of a baby rather than the loss of being pregnant believed due to the routine use of ultrasound,

  • So, what you’re saying is there is an alternative path to creation of a fetus.

    Once that’s accomplished you have a human life.

  • A contentious issue, determining the exact status of the unborn when compared to those wandering around outside the womb:
    Exodus Chapter 21
    http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0221.htm
    22 And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

    compare to
    12 He that smiteth a man, so that he dieth, shall surely be put to death.
    14 And if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from Mine altar, that he may die.
    or even
    29 But if the ox was wont to gore in time past, and warning hath been given to its owner, and he hath not kept it in, but it hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death.

    So the child of the woman who was miscarried as the result of the mothr being hurt by another does not carry the same value as the person who was smote or slew by guile or even the one killed by a the owner’s animal, the goring ox.
    However there is a fine affixed and this payment seems in conjunction with what the “judges” determine.

    If we look to tradition, this article can help
    https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/04/when-does-life-begin-outside-the-christian-right-the-answer-is-over-time.html

  • Susan, the saddest thing for them is this culture is causing them to murder, calling it ‘Women’s Health” Doesn’t do much for the health of the baby.
    First of all, they dehumanize the baby calling it a foetus, or a clump of cells. Well that clump of cells has it’s own blood type and not much later a heartbeat.
    it’s killing a baby, and these will be nothing more than that. Killing a living baby, my friend, is murder.
    This culture would dictate nothing different due to the self involved nature pushed in this culture, but nothing is going to change that thy are murdering – that’s what we need to remember.
    God is faithful and just to forgive our sin, should we turn to Christ, renounce our sin, and follow Him.
    God bless you Susan

  • What criterion did you, an atheist, use to assess that calling someone of murder when they are not is immoral?

    The phrase “Basket of Deplorables” is an epithet, not a coherent assessment.

  • It is probably not helpful to attempt to use religious criterion from an extinct pre-Temple Judaism in the context of reaching moral and legal conclusions as to the value of human life in 21st century America.

    For example, we know from science that a human life commences at conception and ends at death.

    These folks had zero scientific knowledge.

  • Evanescent non sentient gelatinous embryos are not “persons”. How perfectly silly.

    “The majority of embryos die within a few weeks of conception. This fact is widely known within medical circles, but is a surprise to many in the general public… the riskiest time is before the embryo has
    implanted in the uterine wall (which typically occurs between 8–10 days after conception (Wilcox et al. 1999). During this early stage, the proportion of surviving embryos drops off rapidly and only approximately 50% of them successfully implant…. A mother of three children could be expected to have also had approximately five spontaneous abortions. An embryo’s survival to term is the exception rather than the norm.

    It might seem surprising that these dramatic death rates for early embryos could remain unknown to the general public. However, the reason for this is that most embryo loss occurs before the pregnancy has been detected, and the woman is unaware that anything out of the ordinary has happened. The embryo simply passes out of the uterus with the next menses.”— Toby Ord, The Scourge: Moral Implications of Natural Embryo Loss: The American Journal of Bioethics, 8(7): 12–19.

    http://www.amirrorclear.net/academic/papers/scourge.pdf

  • Re: “the state will allow the murder of human beings up to the point of birth”: What is with you stupid twits? No, New York does NOT allow the murder of human beings up to birth. You must be an inane bible humper. Viable fetuses are protected by federal law at 24 weeks. No doctor or woman is aborting a healthy 9 month old fetus.

    “In fact, the more I and others provide clear evidence that a “ninth month abortion” is a mythical creature, the more people say it exists. The more I say partial-birth abortions are an inexact term rejected by the American Congress of OB/GYN, the more the anti-choice movement doubles down. The more women say how these procedures saved their lives or helped them deal the best way they could when faced with a fetus with a severe birth defect, the more the anti-choice movement responds with cruelty.

    They do this because the anti-choice movement needs “ninth month” and “partial birth abortions” to exist in the false way they have presented them just like religions need demons or a devil”—Dr. Jennifer Gunter, OBGYN

  • Go to the Guttmacher institute and read its data. Read that most 9th month abortions are for convenience.
    Democrats are the party of death.
    Kill the old.
    Kill the unborn.
    Pride.
    Arrogance.
    Selfishness.

  • These comment sections need a laugh button. No, you deranged doofus, no one is aborting healthy 9-month olds at birth. This is what you WANT to believe for whatever weird demented thrills of your own.

    “THE LAW DOES NOT ALLOW FOR UNRESTRICTED ABORTION UP THROUGH THE NORMAL TERM OF PREGNANCY.” Elective
    abortion does not exist after twenty-four weeks.

  • Honey, edddoerr has pointed out that women in every country, every race, every religion, practice abortion.

    The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that upwards to 56 MILLION WOMEN PER YEAR WORLDWIDE obtain abortions. Undeveloped country or developed, illegal or legal, if a woman doesn’t want to be pregnant, she doesn’t want to be pregnant.

  • Hey, old fart–do copy and paste this “data” from Guttmacher in which you claim there are 9 month abortions–because I think you’re seeing things. Has early dementia set in?

  • Thank you for the statistics. However, in your initial comment, you said that proper use of birth control would make the issue “disappear”. I took that to mean, “no unwanted pregnancies at all”.

    Your own numbers suggest that there would still be as many as 8000 per year. I don’t see that as the issue “disappearing”. Those would be real women with real unplanned pregnancies, and facing real decisions as to how to deal with them. You might consider that to be a minor issue, but why are you so certain that “most citizens” would?

    Another question: How would you force all women to use IUDs, and all men to use condoms every time they have sex?

  • Using technical medical terms is NOT dehumanizing anything. By calling a foetus a baby YOU are trying to make it into something it isn’t.

    I suggest you educate yourself about the various stages in the development of a foetus–when a heart beat appears, when brain function appears, when viability becomes a possibility.

    The healthy development of a foetus is dependent upon the Mental and Physical health of the woman. Forcing a woman to go through with a pregnancy she doesn’t want or can’t afford endangers the health of the foetus and it is the least worse decision to allow her to abort than to force her to carry!

  • “Another question: How would you force all women to use IUDs, and all men to use condoms every time they have sex?”

    You cannot and that is why abortion consideration will always be an issue although one could make those seeking an abortion show proof that safe-sex measures were taken before any government or insurance abortion monies are spent on the procedure.

    And reducing the current rate of abortions of one million per year to 4000-8000 or 80-160 per state would definitely put a damper on pro-life group rhetoric

  • nope – dehumanizing – same as “clump of cells”
    It will never be a puppy
    I have which is why I am discussing this with you. I would suggest the same to you. Perhaps you would know what you are trying to discuss then
    It is only a few months and then it’s over with. The “trauma” to mumma doesn’t work either – it’s murder. If murdering her child will make her feel better than being preg – she really does need mental help

  • Are you aware of the dangers and harm that can happen during pregnancy? The harms can last the rest of a woman’s life! Have you ever stopped to consider that?

    This isn’t about cute little gurgling babies. This issue is about a woman’s right to make her own health care and life decisions.

    You see women as nothing more than brood mares! How disgusting can someone like you get.

  • No. The issue is about cute little gurgling babies – everyone has the right to be one. To end that reality is murder. (edited)

  • Easiest way not to get pregnant and murder your child is abstinence – then you don’t have to use the excuse, “brood mare” to murder your child.

  • Solution: do not get pregnant.

    “(W)omen’s rights to not be treated like a brood mare” is a slogan, not a coherent statement of anything other than the sloganeer doesn’t think much.

  • “Are you aware of the dangers and harm that can happen during pregnancy?”

    Millions of fetuses have found out the hard way.

  • Using technical terms is one thing, using them as euphemisms to obfuscate is another.

    The fundamental thing is human life.

    As it progresses from conception to death it may be described differently: foetus, baby, child, teen, adult, elderly. These are not different things, these are different stages in a single human life.

    What Sandi is describing is not “Forcing a woman to go through with a pregnancy she doesn’t want or can’t
    afford” but an adult respecting human life and accepting responsibility for her actions and inactions.

    The vast majority of abortions are birth control, nothing more profound than that.

  • Why should anyone abstain from sex when God created it to be so pleasurable?IF God didn’t want people to enjoy sex he wouldn’t have made it such fun! “Brood mare” isn’t an excuse that is an accusation of what you think of women.

  • “Why should anyone abstain from sex when God created it to be so pleasurable?” they don’t want to get pregnant

  • Why when there is such a thing as birth control and as a last resort an abortion?

    Have it ever occurred to you that someone get beaten severely IF they attempt to deny their partners sex? Has it ever occurred to you that a victim of rape didn’t choose to be raped?

    Of course not, you are to self-centered and hypocritical to put the considerations of others ahead of your own!

  • So, your argument is that millions of women are being beaten into being pregnant, and the solution is to become violent with the prenatal life.

    Is this some version of “Pass it on”?

    Pregnancy by rape leads to .0001% of abortions or thereabouts.

    The Romans had a maxim “Hard cases make bad law”.

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