For conservative Christian colleges, no middle ground on gay rights (ANALYSIS)

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Adam Smallwood, graduate, accepts his diploma at summer graduation at Union University, July 25, 2015. Photo courtesy Kristi McMurry Woody

Adam Smallwood, graduate, accepts his diploma at summer graduation at Union University, July 25, 2015. Photo courtesy Kristi McMurry Woody

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(RNS) Traditionalist institutions see no value in associating with moderate ones that have, in their view, traded the truth of the gospel for the idol of our time: eroticized, autonomous self-expression.

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  • Larry

    How can there be middle ground with prejudices and discriminatory attitudes?

  • Eric

    “But sharing an institutional membership with colleges that affirm same-sex marriage significantly undermines conservatives’ arguments. It may ultimately undermine the council’s reason for existence.”

    Clearly, there is no institution, of whatever significance, evangelical bigots are unwilling to damage or destroy to keep their tribal patriarchy “pure.” If they were willing to stop supporting needy children to do so, we shouldn’t be surprised they’d abandon a mere educational council. No, far better to burn that down, too, then rebuild a smaller, “purer” one to drive conservative Christian higher ed even further into the ground of irrelevance.

  • Greg1

    Larry, you will never understand until you stand before the King of the Universe. And I do like the statement, “Now that same-sex marriage is legal nationwide and isn’t hurting anyone…” Let me see, it has been how many weeks since the SCOTUS has decided to flippantly change our nation’s marital laws??? It will take a decade before we begin to see the total damage from this decision.

  • Bruce Frier

    I understand and respect the general point being made, that “If you ‘agree to disagree,’ you affirm.” But I wonder if things are quite so bleak. Don’t even the most conservative religions tolerate a good deal when it comes to other issues such as divorce, adultery, contraception, and so on? Agreeing to disagree might mean no more than attempting to find a satisfactory accommodation, one that allows a religion and its adherents to affirm their deeply held views while simultaneously respecting the majority values of the surrounding community as well as the rights of those who accept those values. Nor is it impossible, with the passage of time, that a religion may come to recognize that what it had once considered a matter of incontrovertible religious truth is actually just a relic of outmoded thinking. Whether homosexuality and gay marriage will meet this test is, of course, another matter; but no modern church upholds slavery, for instance, despite its considerable biblical…

  • Eric

    “Larry, you will never understand until you stand before the King of the Universe.”

    Translation: ‘Even though right now I have no evidence or logic to convince you and no power to compel you to believe I am right, one day you’ll stand before an even greater power who will force you to believe I am right, or else.”

    “It will take a decade before we begin to see the total damage from this decision.”

    Translation: ‘Even though gay and lesbian couples have been living in our nation for decades and longer, and there is no evidence of “damage” from this, one day in some unknown and undefined future there will be evidence and I will then be vindicated!”

    Like most losers, Greg1 and other conservatives spend an inordinate amount of time fantasizing about the day when the Almighty himself will bless their bigotry with the truth and power they so clearly lack now.

  • Eric

    “But I wonder if things are quite so bleak.”

    To those who’ve made sex and gender and “the family” into idols, and who are willing to abandon hungry kids if they don’t get their way or if even they are simply asked to share a planet with people they disdain, things are indeed that bleak.

  • Ben in oakland

    Their “deeply held religious beliefs” are only deeply held and only religious insofar as they are convenient for heterosexuals and for heterosexual Christians of a certain kind. They have long claimed that gay marriage is a threat to heterosexual marriage, but seem to have absolutely no problem with heterosexual divorce, which is a far greater threat to heterosexual marriage and heterosexual families then any gay marriage could ever be. All divorce ever requires is a resounding tsk-tsk when compared with the entirely mythical threat of gay marriage.

    But then, it really isn’t about gay marriage. It’s about power money and dominion. And it is certainly about an ancient and vicious prejudice given a thin veneer of respectability by calling it “sincere religious beliefs.”

    The same thing is true for heterosexual adultery and heterosexual fornication. The only thing that really gets the political campaigns going is what gay people do, not what heterosexuals do.

  • Greg1

    Eric, I do think you comprehended the gist of it. However, the damage I am referring to is the moral decay, and the social destruction that develops over time.

  • Socrates

    The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

  • Linda

    All the evidence and power one needs is in the Word, God’s Word. It takes many years to put the pieces of the Bible together, so don’t go it alone. There are plenty of resources out there to help. Get a good Study Bible to begin, get into a strong Bible- believing church, and good Bible study group.

  • Eric

    “However, the damage I am referring to is the moral decay, and the social destruction that develops over time.”

    The evidence for such “moral decay” is, of course, nonexistent. Not that you will care for things like evidence or facts.

  • Linda

    No. An Evangelical believer stands with God in all things that God finds abominable and are referetonced throughout the Bible over and over.

  • Eric

    Linda, I really hope that comment was not for me. As if I haven’t read the Bible. As if the Bible hasn’t been discussed and parsed and interpreted and reinterpreted over the past two decades, at least, over this issue. Sorry, but every text has been cited, every interpretation debated, every argument made and countered.

    Pointing people to the Bible and telling them to just read it and go to church and all the answers will be clear is to engage in wishful thinking, to pretend all of the complexity of the issue, all the discussions made in good faith and bad, all the people who have been involved and have their lives on the line simply don’t matter.

  • Larry

    An Evangelical stays firm to their prejudice and malicious attitudes because they think God excuses it. This is why so many of them are closet racists and extol things like legalized discrimination.

  • larry

    Moral decay?

    Like enabling and excusing child molestation, extolling discrimination, engaging in sectarian bigotry, raging hubris, cretinous attitudes towards education, attacking rule of law and democratic principles….

    Yep I can see why many would prefer to turn away from the moral decay of conservative Christianity. One that has developed over centuries of time.

  • Shawnie5

    “An Evangelical stays firm to their prejudice and malicious attitudes because they think God excuses it.”

    Therein lies your central misunderstanding of the Christian POV. Somehow you imagine that our convictions about SSM precede our faith and therefore we seek to arrange our faith to agree with it. However, the opposite is true. Our convictions come from our faith in the God of the bible–they aren’t “excused” by God but mandated by God. And if they don’t match the expectations of the popular culture, well, so be it. So has it ever been.

    This has also been true in a larger historical sense. The pre- judeo- christian world, after all, had no problem with same-sex behavior (or with many other things we reject today). What Ben mistakenly describes as an “ancient and durable prejudice” is not simply a distaste that suddenly sprang up out of nowhere but a moral conviction that came directly from the Bible’s influence on our culture.

  • Larry

    You can keep claiming that you would be nicer to gays if not for scripture, but that is never demonstrated in the way evangelicals behave. You are simply looking for a spiritual sanction for bad behavior. Bigots don’t like to admit their prejudices and love making excuses for it. That is just human nature.

    There is no such thing as a “correct” reading of scripture because there is no such thing as rational religious belief. You do not believe or disbelieve based on authoritative readings of scripture and compelling arguments. You use readings and arguments to confirm your existing belief. Claims to the contrary are a denial of faith. The kind of lie which is common among evangelicals. Deny faith, claim one’s belief is naturally correct and can be proven. Very ego boosting, but a complete sham.

    The fact that a portion of the Christian faith does not share your opinion on the subject demonstrates how hollow your assertions of a singular correct interpretation is.

  • Doc Anthony

    Actually, there’s no middle ground for ANYBODY regarding “gay rights”, because remember, you’re now The Enemy (and the government will treat you like one!) unless you bow and kowtow to the Gay Marriage Cult.

    You are now FORCED to include Gay Marriage as a “gay right”, which is what the Gay Activists / Gay Gestapo intended all along. So nope, whatever “middle ground” people thought they could settle on in past years, is now permanently gone.

    If you are a Christian, you are NOT to be giving your support and assent to homosexual behavior and homosexual marriage, even if failing to bow and kowtow costs you a punishment from the government. Did you get invited to attend a gay wedding/reception, or bake the cake? Respectfully DECLINE.

    If you belong to a church where they can’t quite figure out whether they agree or disagree with their own Bibles, then LEAVE that church and find one that still got their shpiel together. Do it now, baby !!

  • A Thinker

    Eric, Greg1 was too charitable. You clearly DO NOT get it. You presume to understand the other person’s view, “translate” it according to your own bias, then call you call Larry a bigot simply because he disagrees with you. You DO NOT understand his viewpoint at all. I doubt you have tried. You have recited no more evidence for your position than Larry did for his. (Frankly, there is not enough room for “evidence'” to be laid out in one of these comment boxes. So their value is very limited).
    You are intellectually dishonest when you (1) make no effort to understand the other person, (2) translate what Larry says into your own straw argument so you can knock it down, and (3) simply call names (bigot) rather than give reasons or evidence for your view– you just presume you are right. Come clean Eric! Be honest. Think and reason! That is why God gave you a brain. Where is your evidence and your logic? Show us some.

  • A Thinker

    Ben you are wrong. Heterosexual adultery and heterosexual fornication have been the downfall of many politicians in this country, Bill Clinton being a notable and baffling exception. Voters do not approve of such sins.They are still considered sins by the vast majority in this country.

  • Shawnie5

    “You can keep claiming that you would be nicer to gays if not for scripture…” I’m as “nice” to gays as I am to anyone else, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to lie about faith and scripture or participate in any wrongdoing in the interest of “nicety.” And the “nicety” of others would not ask me to.

    ” are simply looking for a spiritual sanction for bad behavior.”

    IOW, “La-la-la-can’t-hear you-you’re-disturbing-my-comfortable-bigotry-go-away.”

    “The fact that a portion of the Christian faith does not share your opinion on the subject demonstrates how hollow your assertions of a singular correct interpretation is.”

    No, it demonstrates (a) that some fall prey to deception and are prepared to discard inconvenient features of the faith, EXACTLY as predicted by Jesus and by Paul, and (b) that you know nothing about any of it one way or another so it all sounds the same to you. So what else is new?

  • Jim Harrison

    Linda,You got that right! No more divine right of kings, divine right of Parliament, or divine right of the people, but divine responsibility for all concerned. No more “social gospel,” but the gospel of Jesus Christ. No more “social justice,” but divine justice. No more “social contract,” but divine covenant with our Lord Jesus Christ, the Prince of the kings of the earth!

  • Greg1

    Yes, Larry, the Church has been noble in its mission over the last 2000 years. Of course there will always be the Judases who make up about 4% of the priests, but overall the Church will lead more souls to heaven, than all the Leftists walking the earth will, in fact, the Left is the highway to hell.

  • Larry

    What “the church”? There are 500 sects and counting so far.

    Remember when Christians treated everyone with love and compassion and sacrificed their life and efforts to help those who are needy? Neither do I. It never happened.

    Of course it is never a good idea to trust declarations of morality from people who claim vociferously that without God looking over their shoulder, they would run amok.

  • A Thinker, I wasn’t making an argument, I was posing a question. Seriously, how does one find middle ground when conservative christians are actively demonizing gays and working to attack their civil liberties?

    There is no level of even basic respect towards gays as human beings. Some Conservative Christians are even campaigning to have gays imprisoned or executed. People so beholden to their prejudices that they think God endorses it, don’t change unless forced to either by circumstances or experience.

    Frankly I don’t believe that civil liberties exist due to compromise. They are given begrudgingly. Fought for and hard won. People who can rely on some kind of social sanction for their prejudices won’t budge unless they have to.

  • Ben in oakland

    Because 2000 years ago, in a world a universe of time, distance, morals, culture, and language away from ours, people believed, and some still do, that someone they think is God put something into a book that is so indirect, ambiguous, and contradictory that it takes years to figure out what it was he was telling us.

  • Ben in oakland

    Please. Don’t be naive.

    Mark Sanford. Newt Gingrich. Those idiots in Michigan. Scott desjarlais. That’s just in 10 seconds. You can google a huge list of politicians who were immoral sluts and and still have their offices.

  • Shawnie, you believe because of faith. All religious belief is based on faith and faith alone Any claims to the contrary are a flat out lie.

    This means pretensions of rational basis for belief are a sham. This is why typical forms of “proof” and “apologia” are nothing more than confirmation bias given form. You say scripture compels your position, but obviously it doesn’t compel everyone who calls themselves Christian. They read the same Bible as you do. So obviously it is simply a matter of personal bias and trying to use Scripture to give it a socially acceptable sheen.

    You may want to believe Scripture gives you a cause to treat others like crap, but it is merely creative excuse making. Proof-texting with delusions of relevance.

    And no, moral conviction does not spring from the Bible. In fact you constantly show why the Bible is a really lousy source for moral thinking. There is no morality in the prejudice against gays.

  • Btw if you want a perfect example of what I am saying, take a look at Doc Anthony’s posts downstream.. He demonstrates just why middle ground is a fantasy.

  • Shawnie5

    “You say scripture compels your position, but obviously it doesn’t compel everyone who calls themselves Christian. They read the same Bible as you do”

    Certainly they do. But when cornered into defending their case for gay affirmation they invariably end up discounting that scripture in one way or another, such as being erroneous, misguided, tainted with human bias or what-have you. This is why almost all decline to openly debate the subject — including everyone on this site.

    “And no, moral conviction does not spring from the Bible.”

    The repudiation of same-sex practice most certainly does. It was not a thing in the world until Christianity.

  • Doc Anthony

    Oh, and Larry, thanks for calling attention to this post upstream. I invite all Christians to read it, and I appreciate Larry’s help in inviting them.

    You’ll notice that this post is not aimed at same-sex-attracted people, but instead aimed at Christians who need to be aware of what the fanatical Gay Marriage Cult, along with the government, is about to impose on them.

    The need of the hour is not to convince atheists like yourself, Larry. You reject the Bible anyway. Your view is that it’s okay to repeal constitutional freedoms of religion and speech for anybody who dares to say “No” to the demands of the Gay Marriage Cult.

    Your view is wrong, but attempting to convince YOU of that fact is not the priority here.

    Instead, the priority now is to call on Christians to stand strong for their faith, and to agree with their Bibles against the bow-and-kowtow demands of the Gay Marriage Cult, even in the face of potential governmental or economic reprisals.

  • Doc Anthony

    Besides Larry, if I may say so, Shawnie5 continues to effortlessly eliminate your pitiful postings seven ways to Sunday, so you needn’t worry about MY posts until you can somehow survive Shawnie’s !!

  • Greg1

    When I say the Church, I mean the Catholic Church; she was founded by Christ, and was guaranteed not to teach error, nor fade away (Matthew 16:18). Yes there are other Christian churches, but they have all been established by one man (woman) or another. As for treating each other with dignity, the Catholic Church has and will continue to, but the Church also has a responsibility to teach Truth, and in our day, when that Truth is not received well, it is called hate. Just as a husband and wife do the very things that please each other, the Church, which is the Bride of Christ, does what it does, and teaches what is does, to please her Divine Spouse. At the end of our lives, all will be quite clear, but if we wait until then, the eternal fire awaits. And I for one do not want to see another soul end up in that place of horror, run by the Devil himself.

  • bqrq

    May God Bless all of you who uphold and defend the Faith on this forum. The heaven rage with angry lies which will soon pass away. The Word of God endures forever. Thank God.

  • Bob

    Greg1, the whole Christ story that you keep trying to promote, the foundation of your crazy superstition AKA Christianity, is a steaming pile of nonsense. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Shawnie5, you are merely demonstrating that your nasty prejudices are driven by your horrid myths AKA Christianity. However, the whole Christ story that you keep trying to sell here is a steaming pile of bull-do. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Doc, the entire horrid superstition AKA Christianity that Shawnie5 keeps trying to promote here is a steaming pile of bull-do. How is it again that an omnipotent being couldn’t do its saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that is, in those Christian tall tales.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Thank your god too for all the lethal diseases he created, and all the natural disasters that have killed millions of innocent people and caused awful suffering. Also thank him for all the prejudice and bigotry and hatred that his awful holy book causes.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Jim, the whole Jesus-sacrifice story, the foundation of the crazy Christian superstitions, is a steaming pile of nonsense. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Greg1

    Bob, you keep repeating yourself. Bob, you keep repeating yourself. Bob, you… Just for the record, God must be true to Himself, and cannot just ignore sin and destruction. All must be done within the framework of Who He Is. He is Mercy & Love, but he is also Justice, and Truth. Those ALL must be part of the solution for man.

  • Jay

    I hope that the ultra conservative religious colleges continue to isolate themselves into even more irrelevance. In general, the degrees they offer are not worth the paper they are printed on except to other indoctrinated individuals and groups, while they are complicit in the suffering (and sometimes suicides) of gay youth.

  • Greg1

    Bob is the new Karla… of the Leftist sort.

  • dmj76

    Is it not true that the top fundamentalist schools are academically rigorous? I am thinking of places like Wheaton, etc. They believe what most people believed a hundred years ago – that does not make them stupid. Their graduates will find jobs with the many many right wing businesses and organizations in our country.

  • Richard Rush

    Anti-gay Christians are on the road to becoming as respectable in American society as the KKK.

  • Larry

    “When I say the Church, I mean the Catholic Church; she was founded by Christ”

    Except he was long dead by the time the Catholic Church existed. But your sectarian biases are duly noted. You are telling me that you are not to be taken seriously on any kind of asserted facts.

    The Catholic Church has a lot to answer for. I am sure most the Protestants (and every other faith which is a minority in the Western World) here can rattle off the various atrocities that were committed in its name.

    If you want to see long standing moral decay, one need not look very far from your church and many others.

  • Larry

    Depends on the politician.

    Conservatives usually make a point of pretending to be moralists and upstanding people. So when their scandals are revealed it is far more damaging. Liberals tend to be far less prudish nor likely to support government in one’s bedroom. Their candidates tend to be able to weather “fornication” scandals more easily.

    Bill Clinton is hardly an exception. Despite being randy as a satyr, LBJ is pilloried by history for his stance on Vietnam than his fornicative exploits. JFK is also not particularly tarnished by history for his reputation as philanderer. FDR* was carrying on a fairly well known affair and remains lionized.

    *Somehow 3 letter initials and adulterous presidents have a connection

  • “Certainly they do. But when cornered into defending their case for gay affirmation they invariably end up discounting that scripture in one way or another, such as being erroneous, misguided, tainted with human bias or what-have you. This is why almost all decline to openly debate the subject — including everyone on this site.”

    Not really. Its just that Fundies are very poor sports when it comes to arguments. They prefer burying an opponent in a sea of inane bullcrap that most just walk away in annoyance. (aka the Gish Gallop).

    Rational discussion, objective evidence, logical arguments, all of which are merely means to an end. They get tossed out the minute things go south for them. Half the time its just arguing over made up assertions and flat out fictions that are made that one never gets to the point of given argument.

  • May god heal bqrq of his child molesting tendencies and desires. We pray that he is never in the presence of unaccompanied children.

  • Shawnie5

    LOL! Larry, the more excuses you offer for why you routinely crawl away from challenges you can’t handle, the more foolish you look.

    You would actually lose nothing by simply admitting that you can’t make the case because you don’t know the stuff, and moving on. It’s already obvious to everyone and no one expects you to know the stuff anyway, being an outsider.

  • Whatever makes you feel better. That is the whole point of Fundamentalist belief.

    I would love you to explain that Greg1, Dominic, BeBrave, bqrq, Doc Anthony don’t harbor any kind of personal animosities against gays. They are just following scripture with a heavy heart. I need a good laugh.

    Most times you say stuff which is so ridiculously dishonest that walking away from a conversation is just a better use of time.

  • Oh please. Her posts are more dishonest and full of garbage than yours are. You don’t even pretend you are anything but a raging id.

    She is trying to claim that your distaste for gays is strictly due to “correct readings of scripture”. Even you are not dishonest enough to claim such a ridiculous statement.

    Your post is actually a perfect example of what I was talking about in the first post. We agree on the subject!!!!

    Albeit from opposite sides. There is no actual basic respect present, so there is no compromise “middle ground” possible.

  • Shawnie5

    Not being an amateur clairvoyant like yourself, I don’t pretend to speak for anyone’s feelings or motivations other than my own. Perhaps they harbor some animosity, perhaps they don’t. I would wager, though, that probably none of them gave same-sex practice a thought before gays suddenly came to the church door and started demanding a pat on the head. It’s often hard to take the high road when faced with that kind of obnoxiousness.

    But whatever they “feel,” I definitely know that a faith which repudiated same-sex practice and many other commonly-accepted acts did not spring up out of a sexually libertine anything-goes culture because someone suddenly thought “ick.” It happened because of scripture and the very specific view of creation which emanates from the totality of it.

  • Shawnie5

    “Most times you say stuff which is so ridiculously dishonest that walking away from a conversation is just a better use of time.”

    Well, there’s your cognitive dissonance coming through loud and clear. If it doesn’t fit the stereotype it must be a lie. Robby the Robot say: “That does not compute.”

    If you can’t think beyond your programming, then indeed walking away is the best course of action.

  • bqrq

    We who are Christians are imperfect people who often fall short and sin (as is frequently pointed out on this forum). We pray and God forgives us, restores us and helps us endure the misery of this earthly life. We are also called to forgive others – seventy times seven. It is especially difficult to forgive those who sin against children and their parents. Remember this, we are only called to forgive them 490 times, after that I am not sure what we should do. Personally I am not there yet.

    May God Bless forgive all the sinners on this forum and keep us safe from the snares of the evil one.

  • Larry

    “I don’t pretend to speak for anyone’s feelings or motivations other than my own.”

    Except when you deigned to speak for all Christians by saying,

    “Therein lies your central misunderstanding of the Christian POV.”

    You chose to speak for all Christians. And then proceeded to do exactly as I said originally. Stand firm to your prejudices and excuses claiming God excuses it. Made even sillier by coming up with excuses for the clearly prejudicial attitudes of others

  • Shawnie5

    Larry, the Christian POV is not a matter of others’ feelings and motivations. It is a scripturally-informed faith, and it can not be separated from scripture, for “These very scriptures testify of Me.” John 5:39.

  • Larry

    And now you are back to the same old rationalization of your prejudices. God says its OK to hate them, so I must.

    As long as I can cough up an excuse in scripture, I can get away with any kind of behavior. Christian amorality as usual.

  • Shawnie5

    No, we’re back to the inescapable teaching of scripture which we as the Body of Christ are bound to accept regardless of our feelings or motivations. “Hate” does not come into play at all–it’s actually irrelevant.

  • Larry

    ““Hate” does not come into play at all–it’s actually irrelevant.”

    And you have a bridge to sell me as well.

    Its funny how acting in a “scripturally correct fashion” appears to the rest of the world as malicious and hateful behavior. Especially when you defame others, engage in sectarian biases, work to attack civil liberties and engage in acts and support rhetoric which is objectively harmful to others.

    Its not their fault. God is telling them to do so. Why take personal responsibility when you can blame it on scripture? 🙂

  • Larry

    Its telling that they are taking their cues from the same sources the KKK used to rely on. The Southern Baptists.

    When racist theology was unsustainable, they moved to a different form of convenient hate. Its telling that the SBC finds expansion of the Civil Rights Act to be a threat to them.
    http://elielcruz.religionnews.com/2015/08/12/russell-moore-equality-act-is-a-threat-to-religious-freedom/

  • Bob

    Greg1, stop dodging the questions. Take the time to look critically at your beliefs, for a change. Your beliefs are founded in complete nonsense:

    How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers?

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Bob

    Actually, Greg1, I’m a conservative -the real kind, from before Christian nutjobs took over the Republican party that I used to be proud of. I’m working on taking it back. Now, for a change, show some guts and try to respond to what you’ve been challenged with:

    How is it again that an omnipotent being couldn’t do its saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that is, in those Christian tall tales of yours.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Shawnie5

    “Its funny how acting in a “scripturally correct fashion” appears to the rest of the world as malicious and hateful behavior.”

    Actually, I think most of the “rest of the world” more or less understands the faith-based difficulty here. Rabid bigots like you don’t speak for all — you just speak the loudest. And even among your compadres, I’ve rarely encountered people as closed-up and boxed-in as you.

  • Deacon John M Bresnahan

    Ah Yes! the favored propaganda words of those who trash anyone who disagrees with them. A good way to end any honest, rational debate.

  • Greg1

    Bob you keep repeating yourself. Are you on a merry go round? One last time: Jesus is God the Son; he is eternal, and omnipotent. But God has a nature, which is the Foundation of Truth itself. So just because Jesus could snap his proverbial fingers and bring all souls to heaven, he must be true to himself, and act in accord with His nature. When our Lord created man, he gave him a free will, and that means he has the ability to choose his path in life. God, then, respects man’s choices, and rewards accordingly. And when man chooses to sin, he wounds his relationship with God, and that can only be repaired by sorrow for committing the sin, and reparation for the harm done by the sin. And what reparation could possibly atone for inflicting pain upon Almighty God who Loves us beyond measure? Sin, then, is an eternal wound, so its atonement must be eternal. That is why God the Son, took on a human nature and was sacrificed. Only the sacrifice of God can atone for wounds so severe.

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  • God Loves Homosexuals; but Homosexual Behavior is SIN…
    Genesis 19:1-29 records that God destroyed the cities and surrounding communities of Sodom & Gomorrah with fire, because of their sin of homosexuality.
    Leviticus 18:22; 20:13 calls homosexuality a “detestable act that is punishable by death.”
    Romans 1:24-32 declares homosexuality to be “sinful, indecent, unnatural, depraved, and deserving of death.”
    1Corinthians 6:9-10 calls homosexuality “wicked,” declaring that all those who “practice” this sin “will not enter heaven.”
    1Timothy 1:9-10 teaches that homosexuality is “unholy, ungodly, perverse, contrary to God’s Will.”
    Jude 7 reiterates that, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, were destroyed by God “because of their homosexual practice,” and they are to “serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”  
    
God’s Word is clear about homosexuality.

  • Bob

    That’s not a valid explanation at all, Greg1. The whole Jesus sacrifice thing, which was stolen by Christians from earlier, even more primitive blood cults to begin with along with the loony virgin birth nonsense, is nonsensical and false for an omnipotent being.

    Please for a change find the courage in yourself to take a critical look at your beliefs. You know the questions now. Ask them of yourself seriously:

    How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers?

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

  • Jack

    Earth calling Jacob Lupfer, the hapless author:

    Seven weeks ago, SCOTUS changed the definition of marriage.

    Not seventy years ago…..not seven years ago…..not even seven months ago.

    Seven weeks ago.

    Given the miniscule time frame, your article makes absolutely no sense at all, even if one agrees with your premise that the ruling was the right one.

    I hate to be so blunt, but you really need a caring editor to sit you down and teach you how to create the proper frame for an article.

  • Jack

    Larry, with you, there is no middle ground on anything. It’s your way or the highway….but that’s an old story.

  • Reason

    Wow Bob…you must be smarter than God because you could come up with a better plan than Jesus! All hail Bob! All hail Bob! Come on everybody!

  • Greg1

    Bob, I’m beginning to believe that if I whispered in your ear, I’d hear an echo. If all you can keep coming up with are circular arguments, then you need to rethink your argument. And it really doesn’t matter who sacrificed what. It only matters that Jesus, God the Son, was sacrificed on the cross, and because He is God, his sacrifice has infinite value. If Jesus was not God, then his sacrifice would mean very little. In fact, we would still be in our sins if he were only human. But since He is God, the Father applies the merits of his divine Son to our souls, and cleanses them, opening the gates of heaven for sinful humans. BTW: the Devil mimics everything God has done, and designed. Read Genesis 4:4.

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