Beliefs Culture

Mark Driscoll speaks for first time after resigning Seattle megachurch

(RNS) Mark Driscoll is back. Sort of.

Days after stepping down as head of Seattle’s Mars Hill megachurch, Driscoll spoke briefly Monday (Oct. 20) at the Gateway Conference in suburban Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas. Initially, he and conference organizers agreed that he would not give a formal address at the conference.

But Robert Morris, pastor of Gateway Church near Dallas, said Driscoll requested to come to the conference as an attendee. “That was big of him to just come and be ministered to,” Morris said.

“We could crucify him, but since someone’s already been crucified for him … ” Morris said, his voice trailing off. “It’s very sad that in the church, we’re the only army that shoots at our wounded. And I’d like you to stop it.”

Driscoll’s resignation came in the wake of accusations of plagiarism, bullying and an oversized ego that alienated some of his most devoted followers. Conference attendees gave Driscoll a standing ovation as Morris handed him the microphone.

“What do you want me to do?” Driscoll asked, teasing about the dangers of giving “a microphone to a preacher who’s been gone for a while.”

Driscoll spoke for three minutes, telling the crowd that he’s praying for Jesus to show him “blind spots” where he could grow.

“There are a lot of things I could say that would make me feel better. I don’t know if it would make me look better, but I don’t think it would make Jesus look better,” he said.

Driscoll asked the crowd for prayer for his family of five children, ages 8 to 17. “I’ve cried a lot lately,” he said. “It’s been a rough season for the family.”

Driscoll said his family has moved three times, people have been arrested at his home and he has received death threats. Recently, he said, he found rusty nails on his driveway.

When his children wanted to camp in the backyard, the family “woke up in the morning about 6:30 or so, and huge rocks about the size of baseballs come flying at my kids,” he said.

Days later, Driscoll said, media flew over his house in a helicopter. He said his 8-year-old son came down wearing a military jacket, loading up his Airsoft rifle, asking if his jacket was bulletproof. “He didn’t have any concept of media coverage,” Driscoll said. “He thought it was bad guys coming to kill his family.”

Addressing a conference of pastors and church staff, he said: “Every pastor needs a pastor. You pastors, your family needs you to be their pastor.”

Morris said that Driscoll had been preaching 50 times a year, sometimes six times a week, which was not healthy. “I’m glad he’s saying, ‘Help me learn to do it differently and do it better.'”

Morris joked about how he invited both Driscoll and North Carolina megachurch pastor Steven Furtick to the conference, both of whom “got bad media this year.” Furtick, who was already under fire for buying a $1.6 million house, came under the spotlight for “spontaneous baptisms” that turned out to be not nearly so spontaneous. Driscoll and Furtick smiled and shook hands.


About the author

Sarah Pulliam Bailey

Sarah Pulliam Bailey is a national correspondent for RNS, covering how faith intersects with politics, culture and other news. She previously served as online editor for Christianity Today where she remains an editor-at-large.


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  • I absolutely love Ps Mark Driscoll and was deeply saddened by how things were handled with him. He is a great pastor, flaws and all. I look forward to his rise at the end of this storm.

  • The Church has always been the first to crucify their own. What happen to humility, reconciliation and forgiveness ? It is amazing that the one that we crucified and hung on a cross appears to be the only one that will always offer reconciliation and forgiveness.

  • Christ only forgives if we Repent! Two guys were next to Jesus on the Cross
    and only one guy went to heaven! Why is that? Only one of the guys next
    to Jesus Repented/had a change of heart about his sin. We all must Repent!
    Jesus said you are one of Mine only if you follow Me and that many will say
    to Me Lord,Lord and not enter heaven! If you say you love Jesus and then
    don’t follow the Bible/religion no Truth is in you! We all must Repent/follow!

  • I thought it was neat how this guy chose to resign rather than submit to the plan of discipline and restoration his elders laid out for him. Discipline is only for people on the bottom, right?

    This guy is unrepentant and a danger to all who follow him.

  • Humility, reconciliation and forgiveness are fine … as long as the individual is truly repentant. But this man does not deserve to be in any position of teaching authority after the harm he did to his congregation, specifically the women (who your bible calls “the weaker vessel”). He taught men to bully them in the name of your god. If he wants to attend and keep his mouth shut (best way to listen, after all), that would benefit all involved.

  • If you read his words in the article carefully, he doesn’t seem very repentant. It’s more “woe’s me” than repentance. It is very rare these days that anybody truly repents or takes full responsibility for their conduct.

    As for the guy who bought the 1.6 million house, is it too much to ask for pastors to live simply and tastefully, thus setting the right example? In most areas of the country, you can buy a fabulous home for well under $1 million. Asking this is hardly asking them to take a vow of poverty. It is asking them to use a little common sense and wisdom.

    When a pastor does well financially, the attitude shouldn’t be, “yippee, Martha, we made it — now let’s live it up!” It should be, “let’s enjoy this, but let’s remain a good witness for the world to see Christ in us.”

  • Mr Driscoll was given a plan by the Mars Hill board to work through reconciliation and restoration. He opted to quit rather than be brought into humility and repentance.

    Don’t blame those who call out the wrongs. Blame those DOING the wrongs.

    According to 1 Timothy 3:1-7, elders must be:
    – blameless
    – temperate
    – sober-minded
    – of good behavior
    – gentle
    – not quarrelsome
    – not covetous or greedy
    – not puffed up with pride
    – in good repute with those outside [the church]
    Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says,

    “Awake, O sleeper,
    and arise from the dead,
    and Christ will shine on you.”

    (Eph 5:6–14)

  • A man ought not resign from the ministry citing failure of temper and arrogant, controlling behavior one week and expect to come back the next. Well, apparently he can, but he ought not to.

    Has he yet repented for claiming that God gives him sometimes mistaken pornographic visions of his members’ sexual histories?

  • If it is true, what is happening to his family and children, that is unfortunate. No more needs to be said about that, behavior like that is plain wrong.

    And while it is fine for Mark to ask for prayer for his family, it is curious to me that he didn’t ask for prayer for Mars Hill, the church he left. There are THOUSANDS of members of that church who prayed for him, served with him, financially supported him, who are now left without a Pastor. Thousands of adults, young adults, families, children that are no doubt left in a difficult situation, with some of these Mars Hill campuses closing their door and people having to find new places to worship.

    No one can judge a heart, of course, but God does tell us to judge fruit.

    Imagine the statement it would have made if he could have taken that pulpit, said the words “I am sorry” and asked for prayer for everyone, for himself, his family, his church and the people he hurt.

    What wonderful fruit that would have been.

  • “….forgiveness is(are) fine .. as long as the individual is truly repentant.”

    Who, if any of us, has the ability to know someone’s heart?

    “…does not deserve to be in any position of teaching in authority after the harm he did…”

    Mark Driscoll did not deserve to be in a position of teaching authority when he co-founded Mars Hill Church all those years ago. He has never deserved it, and never will. None of us deserves a thing in this world besides death, but by the grace of the only God, we are made worthwhile. Your reference to Christ as “your God”, makes me curious. At the risk of implying something I don know, this leads me to believe that you do not consider yourself a follower of God. Let me tell you that our God is a forgiving, loving Father, who is willing to pardon any wrongdoing. In the bible, God uses a man named Paul, who was guilty of murdering many Chistians, to be in a position of teaching authority. Paul was arguably one of the biggest evangelists of his time.

    Some people think that Mark Driscoll is guilty of bullying, sexism, etc. Some think he is guilty of plagiarism, and misuse of church monies. Some people have no issue with these things, and some think he did none of these things in the first place. I will say, however, that in my eyes what Paul did was much worse. The point is that we all make mistakes and fall short of God’s perfect glory. If I was a member of Mars Hill I could not judge whether or not Mark has “truly” repented. I also know that if I searched the world over, I would not find a single sinless human who “deserves” to be the pastor of a church. Jesus was the only perfect being to ever walk this earth, and He loves you and the rest of us all the same.

  • “So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” – John 8:7 (KJV)

  • You have to be kidding. He has a long history of misogynist comments that were enabled by a perverted and misogynist theology wielded for the sole purpose making Driscoll feel like a “real man.” He had no business being a pastor and, in light of his little self-pitying stunt, shouldn’t have a future as one, either.

  • And how often did you toss up this verse as a shield against all the verbal rocks Driscoll hurled at women, in general and in his church? Please stop your concern trolling and start paying attention.

  • Hey “Whatever” try using your real name next time and remember that just because you made the comment on the internet doesn’t mean that your 10 feet tall and bullet proof. Try substantiating your claim before making it.

    I’ve never really been a big Driscoll fan mostly because I’m a Jesus fan and men let us down, but regardless it’s people who think the way you do that make Christianity so unattractive to nonbelievers.

  • The evangelical church needs to realize that entrepreneurial types may be great speakers and even thinkers, but rarely good shepherds or pastors. Driscoll is a case in point.

    He needs to repent, which obviously he has yet to do….and then he needs to assess his strengths and weaknesses and ask God where He would have him be.

    God may want him literally to clean toilets for awhile to learn humility and to do a useful task that doesn’t gain him any accolades. If that’s what He wants, he should accept it as God’s best for that season in his life.

  • In the Marines and other branches of the armed forces, there is an old concept that a recruit’s will needs to be shattered and then rebuilt, creating a new person who puts his unit and the interests of his comrades ahead of himself.

    This is exactly the same notion as the biblical one in which Paul tells Christians to crucify their old self and put on their new self in Christ.

    Driscoll and probably most of us need to take that hard but ultimately wise teaching to heart. There has to be a shattering of the old life and self and a building of a new self around a new way of living.

    This is especially true of leaders like Driscoll. They are in no position to lead anyone unless they are going through this process.

    It’s not fun…..CS Lewis said the process is about as fun as getting beaten to death in a concentration camp. But for Christians, starting with Christian leaders, it is a must. The alternative is abusive or neglectful leadership that is unworthy of Christ.

  • Julie, you just contradicted yourself. Reread what you just wrote.

    Hell hath no fury like a cheap grace proponent offended by costly grace.

  • Dane, that’s a misapplication of that verse. It’s a very deep and significant verse about ultimate judgment….it’s not a cheap-grace verse that prevents the church from dealing with and disciplining abusive leadership.

  • Well said, Chuck. God may not be done with Driscoll but there needs to be humility, confession, repentance, and time to heal and to be reconciled to others.

  • Chuck, right on. It’s more of the same and narcissistic, what was me, I’m the victim approach. Colossians 2:18 warns against false humility. We’ve had enough of that. How much more of this are we going to see? This is The worst and saddest dog and pony show I’ve ever seen in the body of Christ. Lord Jesus, please spare all of us from more of this. Most importantly, spare your name in the church for many more this ridiculous nonsense. Is the church really this far gone that even the pastors are blind to deception? Apparently. We’re living in dark, dark days.

  • I don’t know that he’s a “wacko” or that he should never preach again. If he humbles himself (which he has yet to do), and if he confesses and repents, and if he reconciles with others, there will probably come a time when he will be able to preach again….and he could come back better than ever.

    So don’t rule anyone out….where there is life, there is hope.

    But on the other hand, the proponents of cheap grace on this board aren’t doing him nor the Body of Christ any favors by making lame excuses for his behavior.

  • Reconciliation, yes, but you can’t reconcile with someone who won’t humble themselves and be reconciled. Forgiveness, yes, but you can’t forgive one who still hasn’t come to grips fully with his need to be forgiven.

    Granting forgiveness to one who has no felt need for it is as efficacious as trying to teach a chipmunk how to fly.

  • No, Danny, actually, people respect Christians who aren’t afraid to stand up to other Christians when circumstances warrant. The worst witness to non-Christians is when Christians are perceived as covering up for one another — whether the covering up is actually taking place or not.

    Whatever may have gone too far with his comment, but at least he’s dealing with the reality of Driscoll’s major problems as a leader.

  • Eric, You clearly have NO IDEA the ministry he has had, and no vision for how God might be molding and refining Mark, growing him and softening rough and sinful edges to make him a much better person and pastor/teacher. You also are very arrogant to claim his SOLE PURPOSE to do anything! No one knows his heart except God. Are you God? “Self-pitying stunt” is so judgmental. Why can’t any of you critics just sit back and let God work. Has He perfected you already? Or maybe, just maybe you need a little more time to get there yourself. If Mark humbles himself and has a heartfelt sorrow and repentance for his sin, and if GOD so chooses (not you) he absolutely has every business being a pastor. You just have no idea, and it appears you have a log in your eye. Why not try praying that God would reveal Himself through all of this and do something bigger than you can ask or imagine?

  • Don’t despair, Mike. God is exposing darkness and purging his church of bad leaders or those who are not yet ready to lead. It’s a process, even in these dark days. God will raise up humble leaders in His good time. You wait and see.

  • God wants leaders with a broken and contrite spirit….and in our generation, He will have them.

    Driscoll has a choice: He can stay hardened and never truly lead again, or he can become broken and contrite — and thus capable for the first time in his life of being a real leader of men and women.

  • Driscoll was a great talker, a great organizer, a great motivator and inspirer, but a lousy pastor and shepherd.

    That’s the bottom line. He’s intelligent enough to become a good pastor and shepherd, but not without humility and repentance.

  • Jack-Amen! We all must Repent not think we can say/do whatever and
    then still go to heaven. This cheap Grace that many are still trying to
    preach is not Biblical. Bible says many will say Lord did I not prophesy
    in Your name and in Your name cast out demons/did many wonderful
    works and then the Lord will tell them plainly depart from Me you are a
    worker of iniqutiy I never knew you! We all need to be humble/Repent!

  • Your hermeneutics are horrible. You can’t take scripture meant for one purpose and twist it to fit your cause, do you even know what “sons of dis-obedience” is referring to? Do your homework before you condemn a man on Gods behalf…..I could twist a ton of scripture to address your heart also and the sin in your heart. Yes we need to call out sin and repent, so I’m calling yours out….will you repent? I doubt it.

  • on the contrary, many of us have followed it for quite some time. He’s a bully and a narcissist. His original elder board has finally seen the light and now Driscoll just leaves because he doesn’t want *their* “wise counsel.” He wants the wise counsel that makes him feel good about his behavior.

  • Jack-Amen/very well said! We must be humble/Repent/have a change of
    heart about our sin/agree that our sin is wrong! The Cross was the perfect
    example. Two guys were next to Jesus on the Cross. Only one guy went to
    heaven! Why? Only one guy Repented/had a change of heart about his sin.
    Jesus said you are one of Mine only if you follow Me/many will say to Me
    Lord,Lord and not enter heaven! Jesus said… Why call Me Lord and not
    do what I say? If you say you love Jesus then don’t follow the Bible/religion
    no Truth is in you! It’s not enough to believe in Jesus. We must follow Him!

  • Jack….How do you know what God is doing? I would love to see what you would have blogged about Moses! 40 years worth of “Geez this Moses is a horrible leader”, “this guy needs to repent!”, “Gods gonna get this guy!”
    “We need a new leader”……

  • He is an evil person who serves himself and not God. He follows the devil. That is pitiful how Robert Morris is trying to revive him.

  • Guys Mark Driscoll is NOT the point here.

    Don’t you see that this is a scheme to divide the body of Christ?

    He is just a man. Whether or not he is repentant, God will judge and bring judgement in due time, as well as restoration if there is true repentance. The truth will always stand, so if this man continues to walk away from the true vine he will eventually wither away.

    So do not let this man make YOU angry at your fellow brothers and sisters who are genuinely concerned about the issue because we all love God.

    Let’s have a positive discussion and understand that because we are all different parts of the body of Christ, we will naturally have differing responses. AND that is OKAY. Because God made some of us more inclined towards the ministry of restoration, and some of us more inclined towards being watchmen of the church. (Okay, not super biblical because I know you need to be called by God into such roles, but you know what I’m trying to say through these examples.)

    When we allow the spirit of anger, judgement or stirrings of passionate disagreement colour our words, we stumble others, both believers and pre-believers.

    We need to have wisdom in how to deal with the matter, AND we also need to have forgiveness. One part of the bible is not exclusive to the other part of the bible. We need BOTH the points that have been raised. So let’s pray as a family for spiritual covering of the leadership team of the churches that are involved, who will make decisions with Godly wisdom on how to deal with the matter, and also for him to truly come to repentance. God loves every single one of His sheep.

  • We also need to be aware of being religious Pharisees who can tout all Bible verses but have no love! Let’s make sure our own walk with God is good first, and ask Him to search our hearts for what we need to repent today.

    God bless all of you!

  • Paula… “Followed it” ? From the outside sounds like. There are many of us on the inside who love Mark and are grieved over this, don’t see Mark as a victim, but as a fellow sinner who needs like, like anyone. He is someone we love because he has nurtured, taught and loved us to Jesus. You appear to have made up your mind, done deal, Mark is no good. You don’t seem to expect God to do big things. You think you know what Mark wants. You only see the bad things Mark did.

    There is a big picture here. I would challenge you to look beyond what you can see right now. First of all, there is more happening that what YOU can see, or any of us! Second, people are a work in progress. Look at the elder board who has “finally seen the light” (your words). Things take time.

    Do you want to be discarded as worthless or at least useless because of any sin in your life, past or present? Do you always repent the minute your sin is found out? Are all of your thoughts and words to every person you have had interaction with compassionate and humble, as Jesus’ were? Neither are Mark’s, or mine or anyones. Why are you ok to condemn him? If everyone (or anyone) judges you as harshly as you judge, how would you feel? If God judges you by your standard, woe is you.

  • Agreed with Alva – whether it’s wolves in sheep’s clothing it is tragic how many have jumped on the band wagon to tear someone down. I have only one question: of the 45 response’s to the above article, how many authors have actually attended a Mars Hill Church ? For me and my house hold, we will serve Jesus Christ and not man.

  • I tuned into DayStar and Robert Morris was talking about and introducing Mark Driskoll. I immediately started weeping without knowing anything about the controversy. I was sobbing for the body of Christ. Division is exactly what satan wants. I am thankful for God’s forgiveness. I pray everyone finds the healing they need. Let us not tear each other apart.

  • How do you know he hasn’t humbled himself…Have you been
    in his home…Have listened to any of his prayers…How can you possibly
    know what has happened in that mans heart…truth is you can’t……
    “Cheap grace”? please define “cheap grace”!!! because
    every time I hear the term it seems to come from a pharisaical critic attempting to impose some form of legalism on their advesary…
    In fact most of those who are against “cheap grace” usually are against grace altogether… Please tell me was Jesus giving “cheap grace” to the woman at the well…what about the woman caught in adultery…was that cheap grace? Or how about Zaccheus…or the parapalegic who Jesus forgave before the parapalegic even asked for forgiveness…
    Finally who appointed you as the arbiter of Mark Driscoll’s restoration process? I don’t pretend to know what Mark Driscoll has done…
    One thing I do know. I am not his judge…I simply pray that JESUS restores Mark Driscoll in whatever way He chooses… Please back off and let JESUS do his work.

  • Amen! Jose! The Christian “church” like when Driscoll lead was so paranoid and ranting about their persecution by people like “gays” he ignores the Greatest Commandment of Love your Neighbor which is NOT just fellow Christians or think alikes. Christians llike Driscoll need to face and accept Spiritual Abuse is real and really hurts people for life times causing separation from Christ.

  • Chuck you make a great armchair QB…Next time you speak in front of 20,000
    people the day after resigning from the church you pastored for 20 years…let me know if anything slips your mind…

  • Tears aren’t necessarily a sign of repentance, and ‘feeling better’ isn’t the point of repentance. Interesting that he couldn’t bring himself to stay out of the limelight very long. That says a lot.

  • I agree. I feel most of his critics are lost and don’t know Jesus. If they knew Jesus they would understand. God says to forgive, He does not say forget. What he needs now is someone to mentor him to ultimately restore him. I would love to see him preach again. God uses him in a big way. If we can give rapists and killers a second chance what makes Marks mistakes more costly?

  • Those who’ve positioned themselves as teachers in a very public way are going to be held to a higher standard. Everything they do, good and bad, reflects on Christ to a deeper extent than what other less-well known Christians do. We (fellow believers) can’t afford to naively accept what he says at face value. There’s a lot at stake, since he went out of his way to be a celebrity figure.

  • Will-Read all of the Bible not just part. It’s very convenient today for people
    to take out the tough parts of the Bible. The Bible is clear the gate is very
    narrow and many will try to enter it and won’t be able to. After Jesus helped
    the woman caught in adultery He told her to go sin no more! He told her to
    change the behavior! That part seems to get left out very often. Grace allows
    us to Repent/turn from sin/ask Him to be our Lord but many today think that
    Grace allows us to sin and that is not true. Grace does not allow us to sin
    but it allows us to Repent! Big difference! We all must Repent! God bless.

  • Actually, discernment IS part of what we’re called to do. It’s irresponsible not to judge Mr. Driscoll’s actions, especially since he’s positioned himself as a national leader in the Church. Even the apostle Paul publicly rebuked people when they blew it. The unity called for in the Bible isn’t a naive, I’m okay-you’re okay kind of thing that ignores moral failure.

  • Was Paul being a religious Pharisee when he publicly rebuked Peter? Or when Paul told the Corinthians to hand one of their members over to Satan for discipline? There’s a huge difference between an unloving judgment and expecting evidence of genuine repentance. Mature believers aren’t naive.

  • At the end of the day even pastors are fallen humans. We as Christians are called to bring people to Christ and to eternal life. We need to stop being righteous (we all have a story) within the church at stop crucifiying our own people and start focusing on saving souls. Christ will have the final say on the works of Driscoll and thats the only one who should matter.

  • Will-Luke 13 says we must bear good fruit and that fruit is the fruit
    of Repentacne not good works because many non-believers do
    good works. The point I was trying to make was that people can’t
    just say/do whatever they want then turn around and think that
    they are saved. Bible is clear that we must Repent/bear good fruit
    so I hope Mr. Driscoll does humble himself/Repent/bear good fruit
    but just saying something doesn’t mean anything without change!
    Bible says Repent or perish! We all must Repent! God bless.

  • Brian-Amen/well said! Jesus said you are one of Mine only if you follow
    Me and also that many will say to Me Lord,Lord and not enter heaven!
    Bible says Repent or perish! We all must Repent/change!

  • We’re also called to contend for the faith, even when that involves fellow believers in the Body. The apostle Paul did that many times. There’s more involved here than just Mark Driscoll’s future, as important as that is.

  • He will find nothing but wise counsel at Gateway. If he sticks around, and learns to submit his will to God, he will be restored.

  • Re: “‘We could crucify him, but since someone’s already been crucified for him … ‘ Morris said, his voice trailing off.”

    Ah, well then. No need for Driscoll to admit any wrongdoing. Jesus already took care of that for him! He shouldn’t have to apologize for anything, then. Jesus’ death obviated that … obviously!

    By the same token, there’s no need … ever … for any Christian to apologize for anything s/he may have done. Jesus took care of it already, some two millennia ago! Christians apologize …. ? Or concede wrongdoing … ? Why, that can’t be permitted; Jesus just won’t have it!!!

    I’m wondering if any Christians out there have any idea of the (many) problems with this particular line of reasoning. My guess is, they don’t, because they can’t concede error; they more or less can’t conceive of how or why they would ever apologize for anything. And it’s all because of Jesus! Hallelujah, praise the Lord!!!

  • The only ones I see who are lost are Driscoll and his delusional supporters who refuse to own up to the facts about their hero. And you know if Mark Driscoll came out as gay or something, all his cult followers would be deserting him in a heartbeat but I guess as long as you’re a misogynistic homophobe, then you can get away with anything as long as you whine enough.

  • Mark set himself up for criticism the minute he decided to become the doctrine/theology police. In the past he has had no problem throwing numerous pastors under the bus. Humility is tough. I think he is a great communicator but being a pastor is a whole different ball game.

  • Before u step out the gate and make claim to defend someone (in this case Mark Driscoll), be sure u have ALL the FACTS!

  • As a person who has been in ministry for nearly 40 years, I continue to find it difficult to understand why Ps Mark will NOT return ALL the stolen $$$ he’s received over the years, but yet claims to have a “repented” heart!!!

  • Dave D, I beg to defer …. what Ps Mark exemplified to the body of Christ was NOT A MISTAKE!!!! :..

  • Dave D, I find it rather interesting u r willing to defend Ps Mark under these circumstances, but if his behaviors had a “negative” impact on u or your family u might NOT be so defensive!!!

  • KR Taylor – maybe u should be the next PASTOR of Mars Hill/Seattle….because his followers need a reality check!!!

  • Hey PsiCop,

    What you’ve described would indeed be harmful to many and a great travesty if it were the teaching of the whole bible.

    You are correct on one hand that the bible declares those who trust in Christ to be forgiven, clothed in Christ’s righteousness.

    On the other hand though, the bible constantly calls us to repentance. This is quite a paradox. If we are forgiven, why do we need to repent?

    I would recommend listening to episode 432 of the Ask Pastor John podcast (you can find it in the iPhone or Android app it on soundcloud). He answers this question very well.

    I’ve assumed that your here to genuinely share ideas and learn how Christians reconcile this paradox. It’s your decision if you want to follow Jesus or not, I’m just here to help correct one misunderstanding you have of the Christian faith.

  • Let’s see….somebody important once said to love your neighbor as you love yourself and then went on to say something like forgive 70 times 7. Food-for-thought.

  • No jack, non Christians thrive on christians attacking christians. It gives you all a small sense of false validation:(

  • As someone who attended and then left Mars Hill, it’s really not complicated. Mark was too young, too inexperienced, and too self-assured to have the sort of control he was given (or gave himself) at Mars Hill. He should have been humble from the beginning and submitted himself to a mentor to whom he was accountable, and from whom he learned how to be more than a teaching pastor. Neither he nor the dogmatic young guns with whom surrounded himself were mature or wise enough to run such a fast growing church. Those who completely dismiss or minimize the events that led to his resignation are wrong. Those who condemn him simply because they don’t like his style or all of this Biblical positions are also wrong. Those who think that he should be condemned and exiled are wrong. He created a lot of his own problems. He and his family have also been targeted by activists who hate the Christian church. My hope is that Mark learns some valuable lessons by being humbled and is restored to ministry again. I pray for him and his family.

  • There is no conspiricy to split the church,, this man is a pig that lived in a million plus home, built on the offerings of the sheep that followed this homophobic (man),, if you christians would get your head out of your arse and start to think for yourself,, things would look a lot better when a man has a house worth more then you will ever earn in your lifetime,, something is wrong

  • I have been a member for years at MH. I have never heard these comments you speck of in the contexts you refer to. Airing your opinion rather than your experience is such a large problem in our culture. No man can stand as the crowd cries “Crucify Him” because no crowd today is different or evolved than that crowd who cried out for the Crucifixion of Jesus. No I am not likening Driscoll to Jesus. Driscoll is a real man who lives his life of sin and obedience in front of many. Lets give him the same grace/accountability that we would need in our life’s situations. #itisallaboutJesus

  • This entire thread is precisely what is wrong with the American Church right now. We have a world full of lost people and we are losing virtually an entire generation of Millennials, and we waste our energy fighting one another about the sins of another struggling Christian. Have our lives become so shallow and vacant that we have to revert to spiritual voyeurism to create a sense of purpose?

    Grow up, folks. Pray for the man. Pray for his family. Pray for the disciples at Mars Hill. Pray for those who were subjected to any form of abuse or manipulation. It matters not if you consider him a brother or an enemy; in either case God’s command is the same: PRAY!!

  • Jack,

    “God is exposing darkness and purging his church of bad leaders…”

    Oooooh, that is the reason for my existence too!
    I’m on a mission from god to expose all the unbelievers. That way Jesus can kill them like he promised:

    “Execute them in front of me” – JESUS (luke 19:27)

  • Hi,
    I was a city church member for 10+ yrs and our pastor Wendell then Judah were and are great friends with Mark. I am so deeply saddened by the mess this has become. I still don’t know what happened but Really want a better understanding. The “He files the devil” comment was very striking. So I thought I might ask u.

  • Something worse happened at my church. A church that was considered one of the largest in America. Our Pastor did something far worse than pastor Mark. Mark’s problem was too much to fast. His ego (pride) got in front of his faith. But this is a typical problem with churches that follow a strong teaching elder rule. He can over rule the other elders versus a church that has all elders equal.

    My example for almost 40 years is John MacArthur Jr. He has been free of any scandal over his long ministry. He tells a story of traveling to preach and elders of the church over ruled him and told him he was needed at his church. He submitted to their counsel because all elders are equal in his church.

  • I think everyone deserves grace including Mark Driscoll but what I notice the most in this post is how this image of “pastor” is so foreign to me and those I know who are called to this vocation. The men and women I know, go to work everyday and I mean everyday and do the hard tasks of studying, preparing, teaching, preaching, counseling, administrating, supervising, visiting, and deeply caring for the individuals of their congregation. It also needs to be said that a great preacher and a great pastor is not always the same thing. Most pastors will never preach to more than 150 people in any given setting.

    The pastors I know are not “cool” (that will hurt some of them) and blend in the crowd quicker at Cracker Barrel than at a local pub. They walk through life with a humility of spirit and not a brashness. They go to bedsides when people are dying and enter hospital rooms where others will not go. They visit people who are in nursing homes who have no idea anyone came to visit them. They are as concerned about the church roof leaking as they are the new couple that visited on Sunday. Both are their responsibility. They love their family although they are many times more present to other families in their important moments than their own. The thought of 1.6 Million dollar houses never enters their minds. They are unconcerned about their “media experience” because they have no media experience. There is no story here. Just a man or woman doing their job and fulfilling their call.

    I think it is time for someone to say what we need in these days is a better model for pastor. So, when the glitter falls, the music dies down, and you need someone who will listen and care for you…when you need a pastor call me. I know some great ones.

  • Mark driscoll didn’t deserve his position of authority??, where does all authority come from?.. What did he ever do wrong, did you just not like his attitude he preached from the bible and didn’t care if he offended anyone, at least he did something for God and God blessed him, what he you done for God that even comes close to what driscoll has done??

  • Mark driscoll is an amazing man of God a lot of his sermons were very challenging and that’s the main reason there are so many haters hahaha, al defend this man to the end! I haven’t done anything that comes close to what driscoll has done for God, yet the way some of these negative comments are coming out you would think most of these folk had done more, honestly

  • I am from the UK! My wife & I have been listening to Mark for a number of years and it has encouraged us in our faith! This man may have made mistakes but who hasn’t! I know many pastors who have but to tear a person down is not Christian! We are told to love.
    Looking through some of these comments, I can see a distinct attitude between the two sides. Those who support him have love which is expected. Bit those who don’t have an anger and hate and a destructive attitude! Now this goes against everything I know about the teaching of Jesus! Forgiveness, Grace & Love!? Perhaps some people could search Gods council in this and search their own hearts!!
    I pray that God will help the driscolls & I hope to see them working for God in the future!

  • Great comment! This is so true. The issue isn’t Driscoll. The issue is the trained model of Christianity mixed with Hollywood. Only Christians who are more often living in the spirit than the flesh, who have greatly advanced in the fruit of the Spirit, should be the ones leading… and they should be called of God, not of man. This model for hiring pastors is of the world. Pastors shouldn’t get salaries at all. They should be the example for others to lose their lives in this world, not to continue with the model given by the world.

  • Sickeningly sad the number of scornful-toned comments about the Mars Hill-Driscoll situation. The venomous contrmpt would have been heaped on rough Peter and spewed upon s certain woman thrown at Jesus’ feet. The righteous indignation in many of these remarks displays a shameful lack of humility hoisted upon the pitard of the peace and purity of the church. That peace and purity are often in dyns!it tension and will likely be do until the parousia.

  • And with those remarks goes any hope that Driscoll could make an exit with his dignity intact.

    Something tells me he has a future with running Pyramid schemes that prey upon the devoutly gullible.

  • He’s a phony and an overall thug. I went to high school with this guy and he graduated a year before me. So, that would make him 51 yrs old and not 44. He was raised and educated in El Paso, Tx and not where his bio states. Finally, what you see as an adult, was far worse as a kid; he was a very abusive bully. Constantly picking on people weaker than him and everybody that knew him thought he would end up in prison or worse. For sure, he had some sort of chemical imbalance, such as being bi-polar, or most probably a little psychotic.

  • Christopher 1
    – Could you elaborate on your “NOT A MISTAKE” comment?

    Christopher 2
    – You are correct. I am speaking from the point of view of someone who has not been personally wronged by this man.

    – Please reread my post and the post that I was replying to. I was making the point that none of us DESERVES anything.

  • The threats Mark and his family received are insane and should never have happened. That being said he is not fit to be a pastor anymore. We as Christians have the ability to discern amongst the false prophets and those that lead us down the wrong path. Christ has redeemed him and everything he’s done and will do. Yes. But that doesn’t mean we have to accept what Mark does. And we shouldn’t. And we WON’T.

  • Great question, Max. Curious how no Christians out there have managed to summon the courage to attempt answering it. I suspect they have no answer, but refuse to acknowledge that fact.

  • Re: “I’ve assumed that your here to genuinely share ideas and learn how Christians reconcile this paradox.”

    No, I’m not. I’m not a Christian, so I’m not hemmed in by the brazen illogic of this paradox. I’m simply pointing out that the paradox exists. If there are Christians out there capable of reconciling it … logically, and without having to resort to fallacy or, even worse, appeals to “mystery” … I’m not aware of it.

    Put another way, this is not my concept. It’s not up to me to make sense of it or come up with some way to make it logical. It belongs to Christians, and that’s their job. That they won’t do it (or, perhaps more appropriately, CAN’T do it), isn’t my fault. I won’t be held responsible for it.

  • Re: “Mark was too young, too inexperienced, and too self-assured to have the sort of control he was given (or gave himself) at Mars Hill.”

    And who, precisely, granted him that “control”? Who among those people is now willing to: 1) Admit that mistake; and 2) Force Mark to own up to what he did and genuinely apologize for it?

    Re: “Neither he nor the dogmatic young guns with whom surrounded himself were mature or wise enough to run such a fast growing church.”

    And who, precisely, allowed them to run that church? Are any of those folks now going to own up to having granted control of a church to someone who shouldn’t have had it? Are they now going to coerce him to own up to what he did? Are they going to hold him accountable for his actions in any meaningful way?

    Re: “My hope is that Mark learns some valuable lessons by being humbled and is restored to ministry again.”

    My hope is that Christians will finally find some way to stop granting their fellow Christians permission slips for bad behavior simply because they cannot break down and admit that one of their own did something s/he shouldn’t have done and that they gave someone a degree of authority s/he shouldn’t have had. My hope is that Christians stop making excuses for their fellow Christians, and instead of letting them get away with whatever they feel like doing, summon the courage to confront them and force them to make good on their own wrongdoing … rather than letting them off the hook simply because they’re fellow Christians and they never admit fault on the part of anyone else who follows the same religion. (Because, let’s face it, most of them all have skeletons in their own closets and would like to be defended by their co-religionists, should the need ever arise … sort of a mafiosi approach to life.)

  • But this is where we are deceived, I am convinced. When we stand before Jesus we will all answer. There will be many who will declare their undying assertion that He is Lord, but in the words of Paul Washer, “you called me Lord, but you lived (notice, not you did ministry for me) your life (private AND public life, again not how eloquent the messages or how big the church or how many campuses) as though I never gave you a command to obey”.

    I agree with many. Mark Driscoll says tremendous things. He is a GREAT communicator, except when he “tries to keep it real” and passes on his “doing theology with his young son” where the angel of Lord and Jacob were wrestling and his son asking “why didn’t Jacob kick the angel in the n _ _ s?” May sound funny. But I’m reminded, that all of us are under Scriptural authority to have no corrupt communication come out of our mouths, except that which builds others up. Using vulgarity builds no one up.

    I will not judge on whether he is saved or not. With that said, when we read through Scripture, the Lord said HE would build His church. He does not need us to do it. And building big ministries MAY be His doing. But what Jesus is after is spiritual fruit. Fruit that remains. Congregations come and go. People come and go. The fruit of one’s life, which is not to be confused with how big a ministry is, is what the Lord will evaluate on that Day.

    From what I read from a number of sources, Mark Driscoll does not appear to bear much fruit. A LOT of influence of leadership (principles which can be applied / taken from the secular world and when applied can make a “successful” church), but is there any evidence of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control? I admit, demonstrations of these qualities don’t get much press–even in the Christian world. But those who know him well, and let this be a clarion call for all of us, where is the fruit? As we are making evaluations, let’s allow the Holy Spirit to evaluate our lives, to make sure that when Jesus evaluates us on that Day He will see the fruit and will say, “well done, good and faithful servant.”

  • Dave, please define “repented”. If you have a different definition other than a change of one’s life direction in what one has repented of, I would love to know. I see repentance (and I’m convinced the Bible asserts this as well), as someone who WAS exhibiting a certain behavior, then, subsequent to his repentance, NOW exhibits a different behavior.

    Truly, we cannot judge motives. Nor can we judge anyone’s level of sorrow over their sin. We are not called to do that. But all of us are called to help our brothers and sisters in Christ toward continual repentance. All of us need to change, in so many areas. Toward holiness. Scripture tells us that God’s standard for His children is that we be holy, for He is holy. If we claim to be His children, then we, by definition are to bear the family likeness. Therefore, we all need to help one another in the repentance category. It would seem to me that when a brother points out a sin in a spiritual sibling’s life, that person ought to say, “thank you.” But we don’t. We become self righteous and refuse the offer by the concerned person and we often attack the concerned brother or sister with such helpful statements as “you are judging me”, or “don’t shoot the wounded”, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

    BTW, who did Mark Driscoll sin against? He didn’t sin against me, and chances are he didn’t sin against you. So what is the concern about our forgiveness toward him? This man, who claims to be a brother in Christ, who is / was a pastor is held to a stricter judgment. This is not personal. This is an attempt to purify the church of Christ. Remember Paul told the proud Corinthians in chapter 5 of his first letter that this one who was sleeping with his father’s wife had to be given the boot from the fellowship. To Paul, it did not seem to matter how this man felt. And Paul chided the church for the acceptance they rendered toward this immoral man. Indeed, he told them their proper response was that THEY needed to repent of their acceptance of his immorality.

    But they took him up on that, and in 2 Cor 2 Paul seems to indicate that they went overboard and refused to accept back into their fellowship the brother who repented.

    The bottom line, for me anyway is that Jesus will be looking for a bride who is holy. And without holiness no one will see the Lord–a hard truth, with just as much authority as John 3:16. Let’s be accepting of one another’s rebukes and say “thank you” when they point out sin instead of attacking and condemning one another. And in their rebuking, let’s repent and go God’s way.

  • Thomas,
    I think you mean self righteous? But you miss the point. Jesus told us to judge. Matt 7 specifically says that we are to take the speck out of our brother’s eye, BUT AFTER we have taken the log out of our own. We ARE to judge. Jesus told us to judge righteously in John 7. How are we to do that? With the unchangeable truth of His word. Mark Driscoll became a pastor, which, like it or not means, among other things, that he is held to a stricter judgment. Don’t forget that Jesus is after fruit. The fruit of repentance in one’s PERSONAL life, the fruit of the spirit displayed in one’s PERSONAL interactions (anybody can do anything on public). I don’t know Mark Driscoll personally. My challenge to all of you who do is to STOP attacking the concerned members of the Body of Christ and evaluate whether the withering criticism is worthy of Mark Driscoll as a PERSON not as a public figure.

  • Jeff,
    thank you. This describes what I want to be about. I strive as pastor of a small church which rents an American Legion hall with bingo boards on the walls. The Lord has called His shepherds to serve the flock of God willingly, not under compulsion, and not lording their authority over anyone. God’s undershepherd is to be a servant. It is a rare person, indeed, who can be a “celebrity” (which Mark described himself) and a pastor at the same time.

  • The bible, and Mark taught, that we are to love people not sin. You have used a poorly constructed logical syllogism to justify your position. Here is the error in the logic which is applied to Christians and Mark, “God hates sin, homosexuality is a sin, God hates homosexuals.” The reality is it is an error to identify people as their sin. The correct syllogism is, “God hates sin, Homosexuality is a sin (biblical), God hates Homosexuality.” He and Mark still love the sinner.

  • I will be very honest here. I have gone to gateway for two years at the southlake campus. I have been unemployed and am not married. I want to be married and simply haven’t found the right person and was a late bloomer. I have been treated like garbage by gateway. In two men groups, I have been insulted and had men demean men. I have asked for help and been turned away. Gateway has no sympathy for men who don’t have a wife. Gateway thinks any man who is underemployed or unemployed is a loser and does not care or welcome you. They will throw millions at a woman with three kids from three different men as if she is sinless and treat a man down on his luck as an ebola carrier. Now I see Driscoll, the man who screamed “how dare you” at his male members and a man who thinks men need to man up and marry single moms. A man who compares joseph marrying mary to a man marrying a single moms as the same thing. A man who has lied, bullied his church elders, plagiarized and been forced to resign in disgrace. Suddenly it all makes sense. How Gateway treats men. Gateway is anti man and misandrist just as Driscoll’s church was. Churchs are top down and Morris let this man speak which indicates Morris accepts Dricsoll’s beliefs about men. He supports treating men like garbage. Check Driscoll’s web posts about him acknowledging that most of his female members are loose and yet he expects godly men to accept this foul abomination and not hold out for a good woman who has not slept around. Count Gateway as having two less members. I and my girlfriend are done with this place.

    P.S. I even wrote notes for the prayer box saying I was suicidal and not one call or email from gateway. Sick twisted perversion of the gospal. IF you are a loose woman gateway is for you.

  • It is so weird to see him leave like this. His testimony revealed that God asked him to marry Grace and plant churches which he did. Is this really the ending to that story. I suppose we are not promised a happy ending, but this is just tragic. I hope that in a much less public way, continues his mission, even though most less glory will come from it.

  • Mark Driscoll has been faithfull and uncompromising to God and the word of God.The same cannot be said about most of those in opposition to him.We now find ourselves at a point in history where we must choose God or the world.If we choose God we will accept the corrections of the word of God with gratitude.If we choose the world we will hate the word of God and all who are faithfull to God.This is the time when that final allegiance is made.God have mercy on us!

  • Jesus taught us that mercy triumphs over judgment. We all need to practice laying our judgements down at JESUS feet and giving others mercy. A wise person I knew used to say we need to be thankful for the good and forgive the bad. I am grateful for many good things I learned. Just as in eating we need to eat the fish and leave the bones; we need to receive what is of value and let the rest go.

  • Its so sad to see christians , cannibalize other christians like this. Why do you guys take so much pleasure in destroying an imperfect man, who for decades was just trying to preach the Gospel the best he could… is it his success. Is it that you dont like his attitude in preaching. Ive listened to Pastor Mark for years and he never had an agenda, or hatred for anybody.

    I don’t agree with everything that he said, but pulling every bad quote he made in the past 20 years doesn’t prove anything. You cant judge a man’s heart or his salvation by 5 things he said in 20 years of ministry. Mark has excellent doctrine, incredible discernment and an incredible organisation behind him. His vision of Marshill and what it stands for has changed many lived for the better including my own.

    It’d like to make an appeal to every sincere Christian on both side of this divide to pray for the safety of Mark and his Family… There is no reason for a man of God right or wrong to have to fear for his families safety….

  • Wow, mysogonistic homophobe whacko. That just does not sound like any kind of Christian at all.

    But who is it that is not Christian? Mark Driscoll or the people making those comments?

    I barely know Mark Driscoll, but he did speak at my church once. His sermon was on defilement. It was a very good sermon. I have no idea why someone would call this man those names but it seems to me that anyone who makes that kind of accusation has something at work in their heart that is not of the Lord.

  • Men who occupy a “real Christian” Church pulpit, have to maintain certain life style standards proclaimed in the Epistles regarding a Pastor. If they do not have that as a major promoted life style up front, then they have to step down. No, none will be perfect or ever will be, however, a consistent lifestyle reflective of the carnal flesh and seemingly more like the “world of pagans” is not going to be a testimony for Jesus at all. Thankfully, Mark stepped down. He apparently recognizes he needs spiritual help. We re not here to crucify him but to help him be reconciled to God and to others. Thank you!

  • Hi Christopher, I would really love to know for certain the facts concerning the accusations made against Mark. You perhaps could write a book showing us all the facts so that we could once and for all know the truth about what had happened. One other thing you could do is that you should seriously report him to the police for all he had seriously done wrong if you have all the facts/evidences.


  • Glenn, sounds like you have no sin due to the amount of stones you are throwing. Just a gentle reminder that we will be judged to the same degree we judge. Not something I would take lightly.

  • I was searching for Driscoll today and listened to his remarks from Dallas. Interesting his self centered approach. Yes his family has been significantly impacted by events of 2014, but that is only 7 people. Where is the concern for the 7000 plus, the church? Where is the concern for all Mars hill pastors and staff who devoted their energies to Building the cause? Financially Driscoll is on his feet. I expect many many of his staff found themselves with pink slips and in a world of financial chaos. How many of them are esteemed with Mars Hill on their resume? His remarks fail to acknowledge any sense of concern beyond his immediate family. Now I have been a long time Driscoll supporter. His delivery of scripture changed my life and made my faith authentic and reall. I am looking forward to how God will use him in the future but I have to agree with prior posts here that I am not seeing great compassion in his statement.

  • Totally agree – he was my pastor, even though I’m in London and only saw him in person a few times. He made me love what church could be and his incredible achievements would of course have related weaknesses, but that doesn’t detract at all from his preaching. I have the same weaknesses so it’s so inspiring what one human can do with God. I miss him and more than that I miss the word of God through him. I’ve not found many other preachers who connect with me as he did.

  • This is all great evidence that Jesus never really did work through him. All of his decisions were motivated by greed, chauvinism, and egoism. Sure, everyone deserves a second chance, but for Driscoll that doesn’t necessarily mean the pastors pulpit.

    Mars Hill was never a place Jesus worked through. I became an atheist after realising how corrupted the church was. I began investigating the unreliability of the gospels, the Anthropocentric deity it is based of off, and the false encroachments Christianity makes onto science. There is nothing about Driscoll or Christianity that’s true.

    I’m interested in Driscoll because he is a shining example of someone who claims to be moved by Christ yet every action he took as a pastor ran counter to that. You are free to make vague statements about forgiveness, and God being there for us, but I have experienced firsthand the xenophobic cruelty of Christian family members after I came out as a non-believer, and they were all Mars Hill…

  • Diane, Are you God? We shall know them by their fruit and he has been rotten for many years. Ask Matt Chandler and the Acts 29 network board. Read your bible and what it says about the qualifications for a pastor. Then, please, reconsider your view in this sinful matter over years of disqualification. Read the former elders blogs and the dishonesty and ruining of their ministries. He is a blight on the name of Christ and he won’t be missed. Before you reply read the biblical passages. He benefit about 500,000 dollars after having his church pay 210,000 in book purchases. Dishonest and owes that money to someone and he should track down every member of MHC and give them back their share of the 710,000 dollars he owes them.

  • Hey! Hello!? That’s why we don’t follow Mark, we follow Jesus. We get upset when our idols don’t save us, when our idols morally fail us. Why? Because God sent His Son to die for our rechedness, not Mark Driscoll. Man will always fail. He allowed the Old Testament to be written to prove it. Why argue about Mark? Pray for him, just as we should ourselves.

  • Finally! A voice of reason. I’m with Lamar. We are not to judge the sinner BUT we are definitely called to judge the sin. Last time I checked, our guide is still the Bible, not man’s opinion. Yet, the church is happy to let the serpent subtly come into the house of God and wreak all kind of havoc. Today’s church fancies itself as alive and well; it does not see that it is dead and following the masses down the wide path to perdition. Honestly, who do you know who is carrying the cross anymore? The term “repent” is rarely spoken from the pulpit and the church is drowning in the narcissistic gospels of the times. Jesus message is and always was “deny yourself.” Don’t substitute your judgement for God’s perfect judgement. Peace.

  • The problem with pastors like Mark Driscoll is it became about “him” and what “he said” and what “he was doing”

    “his books” and “his publishing arm of his church” it became about “his wisdom” and “him shooting from the hip”

    It became about him defining “manhood” instead of using the best example.

    Jesus Christ.

    If you are going to a church for a pastor / preacher you are there for the wrong reason.

    Sure, we can forgive. We can “move on” and “not judge him” but the consequences of his sin. Yeah, HIS sin. Will take time to heal, and we have to see what kind of “fruit” he ends up bearing.

  • We need to pray for him remember that, not judge him. It is not a good thing what happened to him. Isn’t our God, God of forgiveness

  • Ultimately is all about the people. Because of what happened Mars Hill Church has no longer. Locations of Mars Hill are operating independently but there are also locations that have closed. The greater area of seattle already is not for church’s and make it very difficult to build buildings or even rent places to hold service. On average it takes several years to consider property to be used for a church and millions of dollar’s to achieve zoning rights. Mars Hill was an established body that had unity and was opening the door for other churchs to minister to the greater seattle area. People are hurting here and need Jesus and we as a body need to realize that because of what happened the sheep have scattered and we’re hurt in the process. Please pray that this region of the USA will have restoration!!!!!

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