Rabbi Loren Jacobs, left, of Congregation Shema Yisrael, says a prayer during a rally in Michigan with Vice President Mike Pence, on Oct. 29, 2018. (David Guralnick/Detroit News via AP)

Jewish groups decry Messianic Jewish rabbi's prayer at Pence rally

(RNS) — Jewish groups are speaking out against Vice President Mike Pence’s appearance at a rally Monday (Oct. 29) in Michigan with Loren Jacobs, a defrocked clergyman in the Messianic Jewish movement.

The Jewish groups argued that allowing the rabbi, whom they don’t recognize as Jewish, to offer a prayer for victims of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting sowed religious division at a time when Americans should be standing with Jews.

Some Messianic Jews may be culturally or ethnically Jewish but, like Christians, they worship Jesus as the Messiah.

A statement from the Rabbinical Assembly, a Conservative Jewish group and one of several to object, declared that “so-called ‘Messianic Judaism’ is not a Jewish movement, and the phrase ‘Jews for Jesus’ is a contradiction in terms, insofar as Judaism does not recognize Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah.”

The statement called the elevation of Jacobs at the rally “regrettable,” saying it “divided and confused at a time when we must be sensitive to the Jewish community and its hurt at the rise of antisemitism.”

The criticism increased after NBC News reported that Jacobs had been stripped of his ordination by the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations in 2003 after a judicial board found him guilty of libel.

Jacobs, who is listed as a rabbi at Congregation Shema Yisrael in Bloomfield Hills, a suburb of Detroit, prayed twice at a Republican event Monday evening (Oct. 29).

“God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, God and father of my lord and savior Yeshua, Jesus the Messiah, and my God and father too,” Jacobs said in his opening prayer to the crowd in Michigan. He went on to quote Matthew 12 — a book in the Christian Bible that does not appear in the Jewish Torah — and closed by praying for “victory” for four candidates running in the state, all Republicans.

Pence, whose office stated it was Republican congressional candidate Lena Epstein who invited Jacobs, later called the faith leader back up on stage, referring to him as a “leader in the Jewish community here in Michigan” and asking him to deliver a prayer for those killed during the mass shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh on Saturday.

Jacobs again invoked Scripture from the Christian Bible — Matthew 5:4, “Blessed are those who mourn” — while calling on God to bless those mourning the fallen. He said he was praying “in the name of Jesus.”

Epstein, who attends a Conservative synagogue and is one of the candidates Jacobs prayed for, acknowledged Monday evening on Twitter that she had invited him to deliver the invocation at the event. She defended the decision, saying she requested Jacobs because “we must unite as a nation — while embracing our religious differences — in the aftermath of Pennsylvania” and said “any media or political competitor who is attacking me or the Vice President is guilty of nothing short of religious intolerance.”

Rabbi Elyse Wechterman, executive director of the Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association, who attended a funeral for one of the shooting victims in Pittsburgh, called Jacobs' appearance "a slap in the face.”

Wechterman noted that there are numerous rabbis in the Detroit area whom organizers could have asked to offer a prayer.

Rabbi Marla Hornsten, past president of the Michigan Board of Rabbis, told NBC that “even to call (Jacobs) a rabbi is offensive.”

Monique Brumbach, executive director of the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations, confirmed to RNS that Jacobs was stripped of his ordination, but she said in a separate email that the invitation for him to pray was “a generous gesture of tolerance and Jewish unity during this time of shock and grief.”

She also said it was “disheartening” to be “shunned” by “our Jewish brothers and sisters” in the aftermath of the shooting, explaining that a UMJC congregation was attacked by an anti-Semite in 1997 and that “people who hate Jews don’t care whether some of us believe in Jesus.”

John Fischer, president of the UMJC and rabbi at a Messianic community in Clearwater, Fla., said he knew Jacobs but hadn’t interacted much with him since he was stripped of his ordination and did not know if Jacobs held rabbinical status with another Messianic group.

As for tensions between Messianic Jews and other religious communities, Fischer said those are long-standing — including during the movement’s modern emergence in the 1960s and 1970s.

“We’ve had pushback from the beginning,” he said, adding he was involved in the movement’s modern founding. “We realize there are people in the Jewish community who do not consider us to be part of the Jewish community. (But) we are hopeful because we have made some inroads in having relationships with the larger parts of the Jewish community.”

Fischer said that members of his community come from different religious groups and that his own relatives were Jews in Europe who survived the Holocaust and fled to the United States. His community observes the Sabbath on Saturday instead of Sunday, as most Christians do, and many attendees observe kosher dietary habits. He also said his community expressed solidarity with the victims of the shooting during worship over the weekend.

“Were not a halfway house between Judaism and Christianity — we are a synagogue, we are Jews,” he insisted.

Indeed, a small section of the U.S. Jewish population appears sympathetic to his argument: A 2013 survey of Jewish Americans by Pew Research Center found that 34 percent of Jews believed that someone could believe Jesus is the Messiah and still be Jewish (60 percent said the opposite).

However, Wechterman argued that regardless of such claims, Jacobs simply does not represent mainstream Judaism practiced at Pittsburgh's Tree of Life synagogue.

“There are lots of different ways to measure someone’s status in the community," she said. "However, a basic tenet of Jewish faith, no matter what stream you come from, is that it does not accept that Jesus is the Messiah. Period. The end."

She said later: “I’m not interested in debating one’s personal Jewish-ness, (but) I am interested in saying this person is not representative of normative Judaism at this point in time and history. And frankly, I’m much more concerned with the healing of the communities that have been directly impacted (by the shooting), and … what we can do to limit people’s access to firearms — that, to me, is much more important conversation.”

Religion News Service reached out to Congregation Shema Yisrael to speak with Jacobs but was told he was declining all interviews at this time.


  1. Jesus Christ is the son of God, the greatest Jew to ever walk the earth. He is the only source of peace, safety, and eventually, Eternal Life.
    If you do not love Him and follow Him, you are following Satan the great deceiver. Hurry and decide, time is running out. SHALOM

  2. “‘There are lots of different ways to measure someone’s status in the community,’ she said. ‘However, a basic tenet of Jewish faith, no matter what stream you come from, is that it does not accept that Jesus is the Messiah. Period. The end.’”

    A basic tenet of the Jewish faith is that a mashiach will appear.


    A number of rabbis have been proposed as being the mashiach.

    For example in Chabad Lubavitch in the late 1980s, the Rebbe called for his followers to become involved in outreach activities with the purpose of bringing about the Jewish Messianic Age. Some Chabad Hasidim, called mashichists, have not yet accepted the Rebbe’s passing and regard him as the (living) ‘King Messiah’.

    Rabbi Elyse Wechterman would be correct in saying that the vast majority of today’s Judaism, which is entirely rabbinical Judaism, does not accept that the mashiach has arrived.

    That does not make it a basic tenet of the Jewish faith.

  3. Here is the key sentence: “Pence, whose office stated it was Republican congressional candidate Lena Epstein who invited Jacobs, later called the faith leader back up on stage, referring to him as a “leader in the Jewish community here in Michigan” and asking him to deliver a prayer for those killed during the mass shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh on Saturday.”

    So, first, inviting the Christian “rabbi” to speak was not Pence’s decision, but that of the Republican running for office, Lena Epstein. The first stupidity was hers and it is almost incomprehensible that she was so stupid as to not recognize how thoroughly she was belittling her own faith by bringing in a fake “rabbi” to say prays after the worst single Jewish killing in this country’s history.

    Of course, it was quite a mess when Pence referred to Jacobs as a “leader in the Jewish community”. I think he was just repeating something he was told or read about why Stein invited Jacobs. Come on folks – Bobblehead Pence is not terribly bright. He is more the go-along-to-get-along kind of guy. He probably thought this was okay since Stein organized it.

    Now, none of this is to excuse what happened but simply to wonder if we should be surprised at the overt and subtle denigration of a group of people recognized as both an ethnic and religious minority. It was, after all, Republicans in charge.

  4. There is no Shalom in your statement. You denigrate the word.

    There are many sources of peace, and safety in this world. There is no Eternal Life. When we die our energy gets recycled.

    The TRUE source of peace and safety in this world resides within each and every one of us. Just as the TRUE source of evil, harm, fears and insecurity reside within each and everyone of us.

    We can choose to develop and nurture the good (the essence of God/Jesus/Buddha/Lao Tzu/Mohammed/Black Elk etc……) within us OR we can choose to let our baser instincts take over and bring out the worst within us.

    It was Saint Augustine (I think) that very early on in the Christian experiment declared that God is spirit not matter. Ever since people have tried to make God a form of matter, Jesus was one way they did this. Spirit isn’t matter, it is the essence, the core, the nature, the soul of a living organism. Plants, animals and humans all have a spirit as many Eastern Religions realized centuries ago. In humans our spirit is the core of who we are as a human being. It shines (or is exposed) for all to see in our day to day words and actions–how we treat other people, how we treat other living things–plants, animals and our planet, and how we treat ourselves.

    Al the doctrines and dogmas and political promises are simply distractions that lead people astray. God and Jesus live ONLY in the hearts and minds, in the spirit of human beings.

  5. He is a fake Jew who is both a traitor and an infiltrator who wants to destroy the Jewish faith.

  6. No, he is not the son of god. He was probably just a nutty Jew who had good PR.

  7. Dear Susan, the ONLY peace in this world comes from loving and following Jesus Christ. As I stated above, if you are not doing this, you are being deceived by Satan and he rejoices You make some positive points in your letter, but my comments here are pure truth. CHRIST is the ONLY answer. LOOK to Him in every thought and find peace. HE says “Surely I come quickly, Amen.” Rev 20:22 LOOK to HIM and live, look away and burn, SOON. IT’S COMING!!

  8. “There are many sources of peace, and safety in this world. There is no Eternal Life. When we die our energy gets recycled.”

    Or your in your case repurposed.

    If the TRUE source of peace and safety in this world resides within each and every one of us, and the TRUE source of evil, harm, fears and insecurity reside within each and everyone of us, it’s a zero sum game.

    “All the doctrines and dogmas and political promises are simply distractions that lead people astray.”

    If you include your quaint and not well-reasoned atheism in “doctrines and dogmas and political promises”, you might get some support.

  9. There goes any pretense that the Trump/Pence administration gives one iota of a damn about the Jewish community.

    Its bad enough President Chucklehead spent yesterday tweeting about protesters at the funeral in Pittsburgh instead of acting presidential. Doing something like offering condolences and decrying the act of terrorism. But instead it was only about himself.

    BTW conservatives, being Pro-Likud is not the same as being Pro-Israel. Nor is it a talisman to bear when accusations of anti-semitism arise. Especially since Robert Bowers was acting on panic sowed by the Trump Administration’s appeal to “white fear”.

  10. Good to know you are entirely indifferent (if not downright hostile) to the people who were murdered by a White Christian because of their religious beliefs. Saves us all the trouble of taking you seriously.

  11. So you clearly have more in common with the mass murderer last week than his victims. OK.

  12. And the article did not even get around to mentioning Pence’s disdain for public education, for women’s rights of conscience for religious liberty, for church-state separation.

  13. So now Connelly (an alias for Bob Arnzen) claims expertise on Judaism.

  14. As is so often the case, the brief for Christianity (and often it has to be the “correct” sect) withers away on factual ground, and comes down to threats:

    I’m gonna tell dad and you’re gonna get in trouble.

  15. The more secular one is, the more likely he or she is to actually support Jewish people. The more Evangelical one is, the more likely he or she is to say, “Yes, but.” Depending on the Evangelical individual, the “buts” can vary all over the map. Always expect some “buts”.

  16. Read the title of the article and see if you can figure out why it didn’t mention any of your allegations.

  17. I say, Amen & Amen, to this Very Jewish Prayer to God via the Messiah Jesus. In Disqus lingo, that means, ‘Yo, Loren Jacobs – that’s thumbs up & upvoted! Way to go, ‘bro!

    “God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, God and Father of my Lord and Savior Yeshua, Jesus the Messiah, and my God and Father too, You are real and You know everything. And You are powerful and You are good and You are able to hear and answer prayer. Please hear and answer my prayers now, O Lord my God. Your divinely inspired and true Word tells us that unless You build the house, the builders are wasting their efforts. They are building in vain. A political party is like those builders. For success, the people in that party need to know You and Your ways. Sovereign Lord, you are in control of all things. You put men and women into positions of power, and You remove them from positions of power. I pray that You would raise up men and women who know You and Your ways and place them into positions of power and influence in the Republican Party and in other political parties and in offices throughout our local state and federal governments. Bless us with men and women who know You and Your ways and have good character and integrity. I pray for our nation. I pray You would comfort all those who are mourning because of those who were wounded and killed. Lord, please work so that instead of division in our nation, there is unity and peace. Instead of hatred, there is love.”

  18. “Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America. To anyone who acted criminally in … racist violence, you will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered.​ … As a candidate I promised to restore law and order to our country, and our federal law enforcement agencies are following through on that pledge. We will spare no resource in fighting so that every American child can grow up free from violence and fear. We will defend and protect the sacred rights of all Americans and we will work together so that every citizen in this blessed land is free to follow their dreams, in their hearts, and to express the love and joy in our souls.”
    – US President Donald Trump, August 14, 2017.

  19. Wanna know what Reverse Anti-Semitism looks like?

    According to Jews for Judaism, “Meeting The Challenge: Hebrew Christians and the Jewish Community: Originally prepared by The Jewish Community Relations Council of New York Task Force on Missionaries and Cults”:

    “Hebrew Christianity is not a form of Judaism and its members, even if they are of Jewish birth, cannot be considered members of the Jewish community. … [Their] loss of rights to full participation in the Jewish community … has the following ramifications: [1] denial of membership or honors in synagogal and/or Jewish communal organizations … [2] exclusion from burial in Jewish cemeteries … [3] refusal of Jewish communal funds to support any activities of Hebrew Christians or Messianic Jewish groups … [4] exclusion from access to Jewish communal facilities or mailing lists”.

  20. No, it’s just “Pence’s disdain for [edddoerr]”, that’s all. Mine too, actually.

  21. edddoerr is only big on the last 3 letters: err. To err is edddoerr.

  22. “entirely rabbinical Judaism” – right you are. Again.

  23. My friend does not make that claim. Nor is there any need for “expertise on Judaism.” You can be an expert there, too.

    By the way, Edwards, is edddoerr an “alias” for err? You’ve been doing that a lot lately, see.

  24. Why do Jews get offended by Jesus saying He is the Son of God? Why is that blasphemous? You got the latest scoop on that from NYT, DDT, etc.?

  25. FYII (For Your Insult to the Intelligence):

    “Bowers’s posts indicate he was … anti-President Donald Trump. ‘Trump is a globalist, not a nationalist,’ Bowers wrote. ‘There is no #MAGA as long as there is a k*ke infestation.’ In another post, Bowers wrote of the president: ‘For the record, I did not vote for him nor have I owned, worn or even touched a maga hat.'”

    Source: Jessica Kwong, “Who Is Robert Bowers? Suspect Identified in Pittsburgh Tree of Life Synagogue Shooting”, Newsweek, October 27, 2018.

  26. Go ahead and do what you want.

    If it turns out dad doesn’t like it, it’s your problem.

  27. Bowers was inspired by Trump’s appeal to “white fear”, as are you.

    You have done nothing but defile the memories of the slain with cheap dishonest denial. You seek to normalize the rhetoric and actions which were a proximate cause of the latest spat of right wing terror.


  28. Sorry buddy but quote mining doesn’t change what happened.

  29. No Michael you are the one who has been deceived. Christ is just one of many answers. Have you ever read anything about the other world religions or read their sacred texts?

    Religion is NOT a one size/brand fits all proposition. Your failure to understand this TRUTH shows that you are the one who has been deceived.

    There are many paths through the woods and each of us has to find and follow the path that works best for us. I took the road less travelled and that has made all the difference.

  30. Because, the Bible says not to believe in false messiahs, and the First Commanment says that there shall be no other god’s before me. And thirdly, it is not true. And I thought Jesus said he was the son of man, not god. So, even he is taken out of context. Anyway, you can believe what you want, but fake Jews should not be used to memorialize the Jewish dead. When you die, do you want a Muzzein to say the prayer over you?

  31. People should be proud of their faith. A Jew for Jesus is a Christian. Catholics would be annoyed if someone showed up pretending to be a priest. Protestants would be angered by someone pretending to be a pastor. They would be right. They would not want their faith misappropriated by others. This isn’t hard to understand.

  32. Christ taught: “For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto Exaltation and Eternal
    Life and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.” There is ONE path. Susan, and you haven’t found it yet. Keep looking…SHALOM

  33. I found my path a long time ago Mr. Warren. You just can’t accept that I (and many others) have rejected yours!

    I hope you find your way at of the morass you have put yourself in!

  34. Typical fundy Christian like Pence…pushes Jews for Jesus just after anti-Semitic massacre. This is what Christianity is becoming? Disgusting.

    The only good thing that comes out of this bizarre Messianic Christian nonsense…is younger people look at Christians and run from churches like they have the plague. Good riddance to the fundies and Pence’s maniac religious beliefs…Just a bit more time –then Christian dominance will be seen for the disgrace that is !!

  35. That’s kind of like Saudi Arabia’s rulers after murdering journalist…fake sentiments !!

  36. “Bowers was inspired by Trump’s appeal to ‘white fear'” – and that made him “anti-President Donald Trump [and] ‘not vote for him [and not wear] a maga hat'”?!?!?!

    You did “not vote for him”, either, if memory serves.

  37. By ranting, “fake Jews”, you mean to erase Loren Jacobs’ Jewishness? And you go, Never Forget?!

  38. So you are admitting you are ignorant of the subject and just spouting off.

  39. So that makes you an accomplice to the mass murder since you are trying to make excuses for him and the rhetoric which inspired him.

    When will you stop dishonoring the memory of the victims here with your lying?

  40. FYII (For Your Insult to the Intelligence):

    According to a top-notch journalist, Pepe Escobar, “Exclusive: Butcher/Killer/Reformer MBS and His Pal Jared”, Facebook, October 14, 2018:

    “One of my top House of Saud-related sources confirmed it – once again: Khashoggi was CIA – and no wonder the CIA WaPo is up in arms. Quite a few CIA senior ops are also after MBS prime WhatsApp pal Jared. The narrative is that Jared alerted MBS that Khashoggi was a danger. Other CIA ops were already in uproar when MBS pulled his Ritz-Carlton jail stunt – accusing Jared of TREASON: giving away CIA files on dissidents in the royal family which were CIA agents. That led to their deaths or arrests or at least forking out billions. This is the real game: civil war at the top. The Trump clan vs. the CIA. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.”

  41. What Will Quigg, “apologist for nazi mass murderer said”, when asked by a reporter, “Who do you like for president, sir?”, was:

    “Hillary Clinton.”

    She, too, got voted “for president” by you, if memory serves.

    Source: (1) Rachel Dicker, “Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon Will Quigg Endorses Hillary Clinton for President”, US News & World Report, March 14, 2016. (2) Andrew Blake, “KKK has given $20K to Hillary Clinton’s campaign: Klan leader”, Washington Times, April 26, 2016.

  42. Pence highlights exactly the reason we have a secular government. We would be incredibly foolish to allow any backsliding toward religion, any religion, in government.

  43. I dare you to tell us what less < 0 "memory of the[se 11] victims" you have of:

    – Joyce Fienberg, 75, of Oakland, City of Pittsburgh
    – Richard Gottfried, 65, of Ross Township
    – Rose Mallinger, 97, of Squirrel Hill, City of Pittsburgh
    – Jerry Rabinowitz, 66, of Edgewood Borough
    – Cecil Rosenthal, 59, of Squirrel Hill, City of Pittsburgh
    – David Rosenthal, 54, (brother of Cecil), of Squirrel Hill
    – Bernice Simon, 84, of Wilkinsburg
    – Sylvan Simon, 86, (husband of Bernice), of Wilkinsburg
    – Daniel Stein, 71, of Squirrel Hill, City of Pittsburgh
    – Melvin Wax, 88, of Squirrel Hill, City of Pittsburgh
    – Irving Younger, 69, of Mt. Washington, City of Pittsburgh

    STOP! Googling their bios which you're about to do is "dishonoring the memory of the[se] victims"!

  44. CORRECTION: “We are Jews who believe in Jesus as the Jewish Messiah.”
    – Jews for Jesus

  45. If “Pence is an extremist”, then CanisPulchrae is a hygienist.

  46. This is like saying you’re a Catholic who worships Vishnu. I don’t think your parish priest would be satisfied.

  47. CORRECTION: “[In] 2012 … atheists made up 2.4% and agnostics made up 3.3% of the US population. … [In] 2014 … atheists made up 3.1% and agnostics made up 4% of the U.S. population.”

    TRANSLATION: “[Atheistic & agnostic] dominance [has always been] seen for the disgrace that is !!”

    SPIN: Pff, those numbers are peanuts!

  48. Good, you kno how to cut and paste. Too bad you dishonor their memories with cheap excuses, weasel words and quote mining.

  49. No, all you’re saying is, unlike, and as opposed to, Jews for Jesus, you don’t “believe in Jesus as the Jewish Messiah”. Here’s an FYII (For Your Insult to the Intelligence), such that it is:


    Deal with it.

  50. See? And this less < 0 memory of yours seeks to what again? – "Honor their memories"?!


  51. The great thing about the First Amendment is that it gives everyone the right to believe whatever they like. The good news is that people are leaving the Bronze Age thinking you represent in favor of common sense. Deal with that.

  52. Still defiling their memories here. If you want to honor them, address what inspired it. As everyone who is not a lying apologist can see it was Trumps deliberate panic rhetoric.

  53. Now 25% non-religous in US. This would be the largest religious group if unaffiliated were a denomination. Thank Pence for that.

    Also depending how you ask the question…people who answer “none” when asked about the existence of deity range from 20 to 30 percent.

  54. Your highly discriminating prejudice has surfaced brightly now, Dr. Repairman for “the First Amendment”! EXPOSED! And way too uuuuggggllllyyyy!

    For this was your defense of Louisiana College’s football coach Joshua “Bonadona [who] was born into a Jewish family but converted to Christianity”, but whom “the college’s president, Rick Brewer, refused to approve [for] hiring because of … the applicant’s ‘Jewish blood'”:

    (1) “Dr. Phlerman 4 months ago … What an awful reflection on Louisiana College, which already is recognized as the 106th best college in the region.”

    (2) “DR Phlerman July 25, 2018 …Jews are a religion … Jews can convert to other faiths or no faith.”

    Yet this was attack against Jews for Jesus, who, like Joshua Bonadona, were all “born into a Jewish family but converted to Christianity”:

    (3) “Dr. Phlerman 7 hours ago … This [Jews for Jesus’ testimony that ‘We are Jews who believe in Jesus as the Jewish Messiah’] is like saying you’re a Catholic who worships Vishnu.”

    So, Joshua Bonadona is like “a Catholic who worships Vishnu” – even though “Jews can convert to other faiths or no faith”?!?!

    Or is your highly prejudicial and only meaning that, “Jews can convert to other faiths or no faith” – so long as they’re not, you know, those Jews for Jesus?!?!

    Source: (1) Disqus-sion of “Judge: Jewish heritage can be basis for race discrimination”, RNS, July 17, 2018. (2) Comments on “Is Judaism a Race or a Religion? Federal Judge Weighs In”, Universal Life Church Monastery, July 18, 2018. (3) Disqus-sion on “Jewish groups decry Messianic Jewish rabbi’s prayer at Pence rally”, RNS, November 8, 2018.

  55. Smokescreen. You’re no None. You’re Just Atheist Exploiting Non-Atheist Nones.

    I should know; I’m Evangelical None.

  56. We got cultural Jews, atheistic Jews and now Messianic Jews. Why not Muslim Jews after they all share most of the Prophets. The Palestinian – Israel conflict could be resolved with Muslim Jews in the mix !

  57. Americano “Sandinistas” = Clintonistas ? Per that photo?

    Right you are. Again.

    I’ve had it with these Anti-Trumpings even like when the guy’s GLARINGLY INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES.

    I’m on crutches now because of “so much of the leg-work in [one] thread [after another]”.

    No apologies, please.

    When they apologize to my fellow human being by the name of Donald Trump, then will I choose to think better of them.

  58. “Typical fundy Christian like Pence…pushes Jews for Jesus just after anti-Semitic massacre. This is what Christianity is becoming? Disgusting.”

    Really? We had atheists here pushing atheism and mocking faith after a Baptist church shooting about this time last year and nobody seemed to think it was disgusting — well, we did, but we make a thing out of it.

  59. Right you are, Shawnie5. Again.

    These were his exact “disgusting” words “pushing atheism and mocking faith after a Baptist church shooting about this time last year” in Sutherland Springs, Texas.

    (1) “Damien Priestly a year ago … We must look only to ourselves to prevent these tragedies. Praying failed long ago.”

    (2) “Damien Priestly a year ago …It is time to start putting aside any ideas of the afterlife. Clinging to life after death only allows us to avoid taking action that may stop evil in our temporal world…like having no more future Sutherland Springs kind of horrors. As for faith — that’s an easy one…Drop it like a bad habit. Faith is the reason to believe something when there is no other good reason to believe.”

    (3) “Damien Priestly a year ago … I suspect … Southern Baptists will feel pain…not because of any mass shooting, they haven’t cared about those recently…They will be more concerned about the trans-woman winning a Virginia Assembly seat in rural Virginia today. Now that is real pain for a Levitican !!”

  60. “We got … NOW Messianic Jews”?!

    CORRECTION: “The movement of Jews following Jesus began nearly two thousand years ago with the first followers of Jesus … [who] were Jewish. … [As a result of] the expulsion of Jesus’ followers from synagogues (John 9:22) … [they were] ostracized from the Jewish community. … Count Joseph … a disciple of … Rabbi Hillel II … came to embrace Jesus during his rabbinic studies [then] expelled from the synagogue. … Joseph Samuel Frey founded a Hebrew-Christian congregation in London in the early nineteenth century … [and] established … the London Society for the Propagation of the Gospel among the Jewish People. … Leopold Cohn, a Talmudic scholar and Austria-Hungarian rabbi … in 1892 … [after reading] a Yiddish New Testament … realized that Jesus was the promised Jewish Messiah … [then] founded the American Board of Missions to the Jews, today known as Chosen People Ministries. … In 1972 … the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA) … described themselves as Messianic Jews … identified their practice as Messianic Judaism … called their congregations Messianic Synagogues, and their religious leaders rabbis. … In the San Francisco Bay Area, a group of Jewish young people who embraced Jesus, came together in 1972 to form Jews for Jesus. … Today, there are as many as 250,000 Messianic Jews in the U.S.; 20,000 in Israel; and as many as 350,000 worldwide. … A 2013 Pew Research study found that … ‘34% [of Jewish-Americans] say a person can be Jewish even if he or she believes Jesus was the messiah.'”

    Source: Jews for Jesus, “Messianic Jews: A Brief History”.

  61. Because nothing says persuasive argument like ALL CAPS.

  62. How’s this, then? Jesus is the Messiah of Israel and the Savior of the rest of the world. “Persuasive” now?


    Omydudeness, you’re so right!

  63. CORRECTION: At “Atheist funerals”, Atheists don’t “address what inspired [the death].” In fact, “the funeral services are a tribute to the life the deceased lived. Loved ones that are left behind are acknowledged, and the deceased’s life is remembered through memories. … The focus of the event will center on sincerity and affection for the deceased and his or her family and close friends. At most humanist services, family, friends and even acquaintances may be asked to share their fond memories with others in attendance. … Atheist services bring a sense of closure to family members and close friends and are an important part of the grieving process. The atheist funeral service gives loved ones a chance to express their sorrow and pain at such a devastating time. At this time of loss, it is appropriate to show support to the family through memorial charitable donations, memorial flowers, and meal preparation.”

    So go ahead, Fake Grieving Atheist! Do all the following next, to prove your Atheist Salt:

    (1) Render “a tribute to the life th[ese 11 Jewish] deceased lived.” Have each one “deceased’s life … remembered through [Spuddie’s] memories … [with] sincerity and affection for [them]”.

    (2) Have the “loved ones that are left behind … acknowledged … [with] sincerity and affection for [them] … Share [Spuddie’s] fond memories with [them] … Bring a sense of closure to [them] … [Then] show support to the family through memorial charitable donations, memorial flowers, and meal preparation.”

    Source: FuneralWise, “Atheist Funeral Service Rituals”.

  64. You must’ve dropped out from school (schooling in Basic Research Skills). Here’s a refresher for you:

    (1) “Issues to consider in deciding whether a source is reliable include: [1] Who is the author? What are his/her qualifications and reputation? Does he/she have any identifiable biases? [2] Who is the publisher? Is the work self-published? Does the publisher have a history of editorial reputation? Does the publisher have any biases? [3] When was the source published? Is the information outdated? [4] Does the source cite its own sources? Is it based on facts or opinions? [5] Is the source primary, secondary, or tertiary? [6] Are there any obvious errors or omissions?”

    And you must’ve become lazier and lazier in The Age of Computers. Too bad, because DOIs are just designed for “people”-species like yours:

    FYII (For Your Insult to the Intelligence):

    (2) “Digital Object Identifier or DOI is a persistent identifier or handle used to uniquely identify objects, standardized by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). An implementation of the Handle System, DOIs are in wide use mainly to identify academic, professional, and government information, such as journal articles, research reports and data sets, and official publications though they also have been used to identify other types of information resources, such as commercial videos. … The DOI for a document remains fixed over the lifetime of the document, whereas its location and other metadata may change. Referring to an online document by its DOI is supposed to provide a more stable link than simply using its URL. But every time a URL changes, the publisher has to update the metadata for the DOI to link to the new URL. It is the publisher’s responsibility to update the DOI database. If they fail to do so, the DOI resolves to a dead link leaving the DOI useless.”

    Source: (1) The Wikipedia Library, Find sources, “Evaluating sources”. (2) Wikipedia’s sources, “Digital Object Identifier”.

  65. Didn’t read. Flagged as spam.

    Trump pouted in his hotel rather than honor fallen troops on the 100 year anniversary of the end of World War One.

  66. Not even close to being the same! Jesus fulfilled every prophecy of the coming Messiah described in the Old Testement. The Jewish and Christian faith are inseparabley tied together. Anybody that genuinely takes the time and effort to read what the Old Testement prophets wrote and follow up with the words of Christ can clearly see how these 2 faiths go undeniably hand in hand

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